Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Deathblade
Those builds aren't impossible good.

I'm actually looking at a DE with a better build (by quite a bit) than the Starting RDE1. They are probably above average though, and sacks do seem down for some reason.

Is this just what you consider to be a better DE build, or does he actually have better attributes than what the DE1 has? 63 strength is low, but the speed and agility are really really high.

Originally posted by im317
dont know if it was said yet but with all those plays stamina must have been an issue, i would give everyone some ridicules amount like 100 to make sure that isn't an issue.

Yeah...I thought about turning off energy usage in the test sim, but ultimately decided to leave it on. The energy drain should be equal for both sides and occurs in games on the live server. So, I thought it should be in the test games also. For what it's worth, only 1 of the sacks in the 4 tests occurred in the 1st half. So, if anything, it appears that leaving energy on helped the DL

Originally posted by Deathblade
Those builds aren't impossible good.

I'm actually looking at a DE with a better build (by quite a bit) than the Starting RDE1. They are probably above average though, and sacks do seem down for some reason.

on D, all of the lvl 70s are easily attainable builds and can be surpassed...It's the dots made (they say they are lvl 40s, I edited their skills way up) that are pushing some limits. I wanted to hit day 1 slow build dots at day 440, but didn't have the time to run them through the virtual player builder. So, I just took my best shot. Some are most likely too good and some may have been able to be a smidgen better.

120 speed agility and you´re looking at someone with considerably better? I call BS.

Originally posted by Absolut Zero
Is this just what you consider to be a better DE build, or does he actually have better attributes than what the DE1 has? 63 strength is low, but the speed and agility are really really high.

If you want to talk about the harder to hit builds, forget about Starting RDE1 and Starting LDE1

bu de bu de2 & bu dt were more extreme for the 1st 3 tests (bu dt for all 4, but isn't pushing it as hard as the DEs)
bu DE (Lv. 40 DE)
Strength: 63
Speed: 122 (+12) 126.95 w vets
Agility: 122 (+12) 126.95 w vets
Jumping: 40
Stamina: 40
Vision: 60
Confidence: 40
Tackling: 53
Swat Ball: 2
Wall: 2
Strong Base: 2
Diving Tackle: 4
First Step: 10
Change Direction: 10
Shed Blocks: 14
Tunnel Vision: 14
Big Sack: 0
Blitz: 4
Superior Vision: 4
Quick: 15
Track Star: 15
Clutch: 15
Jump the Snap: 15
Pass Rusher: 15

bu DE2 (Lv. 40 DE)
Strength: 64
Speed: 122 (+12) 126.95 w vets
Agility: 122 (+12) 126.95 w vets
Jumping: 40
Stamina: 40
Vision: 60
Confidence: 40
Tackling: 47
Swat Ball: 2
Wall: 2
Strong Base: 2
Diving Tackle: 2
First Step: 10
Change Direction: 10
Shed Blocks: 10
Tunnel Vision: 10
Blitz: 4
Quick: 15
Track Star: 15
Heavyweight: 15
Jump the Snap: 15
Pass Rusher: 15
58% brk block AEQ

bu DT (Lv. 40 DT)
Strength: 96
Speed: 83 (+6)
Agility: 123 (+18) 127.73 w vets
Jumping: 40
Stamina: 53 (+3)
Vision: 60
Confidence: 50
Tackling: 68
The Glare: 5
Shed Blocks: 10
Swat Ball: 5
Strong Base: 10
Wall: 6
Break Through: 6
Blitz: 4
First Step: 8
Superior Vision: 4
Quick: 15
Clutch: 15
Jump the Snap: 15
Pass Rusher: 15

Starting RDE1 is very tame by comparison
Starting RDE1 (Lv. 70 DE)
Strength: 65
Speed: 100 (+21) 103.56 w vets
Agility: 105 (+21) 108.78 w vets
Jumping: 45
Stamina: 50
Vision: 55
Confidence: 55
Tackling: 60
First Step: 11
Change Direction: 6
Shed Blocks: 11
Tunnel Vision: 11
Big Sack: 4
Quick: 15
Track Star: 15
Jump the Snap: 15
Pass Rusher: 15

Originally posted by PP
I also share the belief that testers shouldn't be active players and have written that both before and after becoming one, but I don't see that changing...Now, as far as being essentially a clueless newbie doing more harm than good, I think my credentials may not quite lineup with that statement, but you're entitled to your opinion. As far as being so eager to find an advantage, I think this entire thread blows that completely to shit, particularly when I posted everything here before posting anything to the testers' forum, wasted I have no clue how many hours documenting, linking, pasting builds and describing what I was trying to do/what I found, just to make damn sure everything important was shared with the general user base, but thanks for playing anyway...Oh, and you're welcome



What credentials do you have? Did bort send you the sim code so you could verify things are working as intended? I highly doubt it. You are just as blind as the rest of us.

Why i typed:
"A third party with extremely high knowledge of the sim'

Advantages can be gained in a multitude of ways. It is apparent that you believe that speed DEs should be more effective. Do you have one? Do you know people with them? Are they are strong part of your teams? Even if you are not gaining knowledge you can benefit from inciting the public and hopefully move Bort towards a "fix" that makes players that you have access to better.

I have no clue what your goal was. It seems to me that your goal os to incite people to voice an opinion that leads to speed DEs getting a boost in effectiveness. If you have a different goal you failed at achieving it.

I am not one to only tell people why I think things are jacked up and not pose any solutions.

I think you would get better data if you took out pass blocker and pass rusher. Pass blocker works on 2nd and 10 while pass rusher does not. This can skew stats greatly because it can lead to complete garbage pass rush on 20-25% of the downs depending on the completions % on first down.

Moreover, your pass rushing DEs had significantly less plays than the run stuffing DEs. It seems to me that this may be because they do not have enough stamina to deal with the speed they have. Since player energy drain is reduced proportionally by how far a player runs; it stands to reason that a faster player will end up running further and having a larger drain. Giving them more than 40 stamina may lead to more sacks.

For reference it took me about 5 minutes to find these flaws in your "test". If you do better job of testing I will thank you. Running a test with no clear purpose and that is set up willy-nilly should not get you any praise.

Originally posted by PP
If you want to talk about the harder to hit builds, forget about Starting RDE1 and Starting LDE1

bu de bu de2 & bu dt were more extreme for the 1st 3 tests (bu dt for all 4, but isn't pushing it as hard as the DEs)

Sorry, yeah, these were the ones I was referring to about the really really good builds. That DT build is out of this world.

Originally posted by czman
Originally posted by PP

I also share the belief that testers shouldn't be active players and have written that both before and after becoming one, but I don't see that changing...Now, as far as being essentially a clueless newbie doing more harm than good, I think my credentials may not quite lineup with that statement, but you're entitled to your opinion. As far as being so eager to find an advantage, I think this entire thread blows that completely to shit, particularly when I posted everything here before posting anything to the testers' forum, wasted I have no clue how many hours documenting, linking, pasting builds and describing what I was trying to do/what I found, just to make damn sure everything important was shared with the general user base, but thanks for playing anyway...Oh, and you're welcome



What credentials do you have? Did bort send you the sim code so you could verify things are working as intended? I highly doubt it. You are just as blind as the rest of us.

Why i typed:
"A third party with extremely high knowledge of the sim'

Advantages can be gained in a multitude of ways. It is apparent that you believe that speed DEs should be more effective. Do you have one? Do you know people with them? Are they are strong part of your teams? Even if you are not gaining knowledge you can benefit from inciting the public and hopefully move Bort towards a "fix" that makes players that you have access to better.

I have no clue what your goal was. It seems to me that your goal os to incite people to voice an opinion that leads to speed DEs getting a boost in effectiveness. If you have a different goal you failed at achieving it.

I am not one to only tell people why I think things are jacked up and not pose any solutions.

I think you would get better data if you took out pass blocker and pass rusher. Pass blocker works on 2nd and 10 while pass rusher does not. This can skew stats greatly because it can lead to complete garbage pass rush on 20-25% of the downs depending on the completions % on first down.

Moreover, your pass rushing DEs had significantly less plays than the run stuffing DEs. It seems to me that this may be because they do not have enough stamina to deal with the speed they have. Since player energy drain is reduced proportionally by how far a player runs; it stands to reason that a faster player will end up running further and having a larger drain. Giving them more than 40 stamina may lead to more sacks.

For reference it took me about 5 minutes to find these flaws in your "test". If you do better job of testing I will thank you. Running a test with no clear purpose and that is set up willy-nilly should not get you any praise.


Thanks for being a skeptic. However you're wrong on all accounts. Sorry.

I think it'd be more interesting to see those crazy DEs at 80 str/100 spd/120 agi or 90 str/100 spd/110 agi. The DT however just goes to prove that the only way to get sacks as a DT nowadays is to run blitzes that makes the OL act crazy.

Originally posted by czman


I think you would get better data if you took out pass blocker and pass rusher. Pass blocker works on 2nd and 10 while pass rusher does not. This can skew stats greatly because it can lead to complete garbage pass rush on 20-25% of the downs depending on the completions % on first down.



so - test how effective the pass rush - but don't use VA's? may as well scratch SA's as well

your whole post was ridiculous

Originally posted by czman
What credentials do you have? Did bort send you the sim code so you could verify things are working as intended? I highly doubt it. You are just as blind as the rest of us.

Why i typed:
"A third party with extremely high knowledge of the sim'


I believe I wrote that you were entitled to your opinion...Let me check....yup, sure did

Originally posted by czman

Advantages can be gained in a multitude of ways. It is apparent that you believe that speed DEs should be more effective. Do you have one? Do you know people with them? Are they are strong part of your teams? Even if you are not gaining knowledge you can benefit from inciting the public and hopefully move Bort towards a "fix" that makes players that you have access to better.

I have no clue what your goal was. It seems to me that your goal os to incite people to voice an opinion that leads to speed DEs getting a boost in effectiveness. If you have a different goal you failed at achieving it.


I have a total of 3 DEs...One is all speed, one is all agility and 1 is all str, none are high speed & agility (and they are all youngsters at the tender lvl of 27). If you took the time to check, you'd see that I have damn near every position possible, and have made every type at one time or another, if you include the retired dots. Still, somehow you missed the mark on that one, and the law of averages would have dictated you hit it by accident.

This is the part of your post I find offensive. I don't recall anyone going into this lvl of detail on tests before. You don't know me one bit. I can guarantee that you have no credible info (hell, none at all, even non-credible) on me ever pimping the system in any way, shape or form. Hell, I didn't even overuse Islam in the POs in USA Pro when I had a team that was built to thrive on plays like that. If you have anything...Hell, anything at all on me, pls feel free to talk shit like that. Until you do, pls keep those comments to yourself.

Originally posted by czman

I am not one to only tell people why I think things are jacked up and not pose any solutions.


You may want to check the middle of the second page, where I post word for word what I then posted in the testers forum. Do that and you will see that I included recommendation for every issue. Also, in all but the 4th tests' write up, I tried to include positive examples, as well as the negative ones. Without a doubt I think both the WRs' ability to get open and pass rushing is screwed, but I also tried to be fair about it

Originally posted by czman

I think you would get better data if you took out pass blocker and pass rusher. Pass blocker works on 2nd and 10 while pass rusher does not. This can skew stats greatly because it can lead to complete garbage pass rush on 20-25% of the downs depending on the completions % on first down.


True, but the vast majority of real dots have both and I was trying to deal in the reality of what ppl build to the greatest extent I could

Originally posted by czman

Moreover, your pass rushing DEs had significantly less plays than the run stuffing DEs. It seems to me that this may be because they do not have enough stamina to deal with the speed they have. Since player energy drain is reduced proportionally by how far a player runs; it stands to reason that a faster player will end up running further and having a larger drain. Giving them more than 40 stamina may lead to more sacks.


True again, but you aren't going to have the points to do that if you jack speed, agility and the SAs up as high as I did...Again, see above about trying to make it match how ppl would build. Of course, not everyone will build the same. So, I had to go with the tendencies I've seen most. Since I have and have had access to so many teams, I think I have a decent grasp on tendencies (of course, they are only tendencies because there are plenty of exceptions

Originally posted by czman

For reference it took me about 5 minutes to find these flaws in your "test". If you do better job of testing I will thank you. Running a test with no clear purpose and that is set up willy-nilly should not get you any praise.


As far as flaws go, entitled to your opinion, but I disagree completely, as I explained my reasoning above. I don't want a thank you...That was just my own smart assed way of pointing out that I don't appreciate you directly/indirectly accuse me of trying to pimp the system...Being so eager to be a tester so I can gain an advantage. I don't owe you or anyone else an explanation, but here it goes anyway. I've pumped an embarrassingly large amount of $$$$$$$$ into this game and thoroughly enjoy it. I am concerned for its future and, if given the opportunity, want to try to make it better. I won't shovel you BS and say that I'm doing it for "the general users." I'm doing it because if the general users think the game sucks they'll quit and I'll be left playing it on my own.

The reason I went into such detail is because, as I have written many, many times now, I don't like the way the testers system is setup. The part I don't like most about it is that it isn't transparent. So, I am going to try to make my activities as transparent as possible. In that case, I'm simply doing what I wanted when I wasn't a tester.

Originally posted by Absolut Zero
Is this just what you consider to be a better DE build, or does he actually have better attributes than what the DE1 has? 63 strength is low, but the speed and agility are really really high.

PPP's build is superior in like every way. tbqmfh

Originally posted by tjking82
PPP's build is superior in like every way. tbqmfh

Hahaha

Thanks for doing this PP, it'll hopefully help get something done to de-neuter the DL. Ignore the troll.

PP, thanks for running that last test. That is a fairly convincing indictment of the was pass rushing is working (or not). Throwing an extra 20 points of str onto an already crazy build and netting worse results really makes me raise an eyebrow. I haven't had a chance to look at the BPB yet, but I'll be combing through it when I get off work.

Again, thanks.

Originally posted by marcello
Thanks for doing this PP, it'll hopefully help get something done to de-neuter the DL. Ignore the troll.

Definitely.