Warrior General Games

Originally posted by PP
Speed WRs ability to get open
Speed WRs definately need a boost, IMO. Currently, they are just plain blanketed by vastly inferior speed DBs. On the off times they did beat the CBs in my 3 tests, the FS was there every time. Not once in 569 pass attempts (long WR on every 3rd & 4th down) did either of the 4 OMG speed WRs take one deep to the house. The speed dif between those 4 WRs and the CBs ranged from 66.5-33.9, in favor of the WRs. the WRs also either had 10 or 14 in 1st step. They did get open on slants a decent amount, but no where near enough on deep balls, IMO.

Of course they won't get open...a Cover 2 is intended to counter "omgicanrunfast" WRs. If the FS were nowhere to be found, THEN something would have been wrong.

Watching some of the PBPs it looks like the DEs were:

- held up at the line (unable to break the block, but enough STR to not get pancaked)
- blasting five yards past the QB then turning around only to get blocked by the OT (this looked like a pathing issue)
- blasted past the OT and got the sack (looked similar to the previous, but the DE actually took a logical rushing path around the OT)
- Getting pancaked

I'd still like to see a test with more reasonable DE strength. No DE should have less than 74 strength at L40.

Originally posted by bighoppa67
On the DEs, why didn't you run them with higher strength? Speed isn't a big part of the break block equation, and those DEs are giving up 30 and 40 points in strength. I'd like to see what a 90-100 str, 80 spd, 120 agi DE could do vs. those OTs.

One of them is somewhat close (low on the speed side), I just didn't paste his build:

Starting LDE1 (Lv. 70 DE)
Strength: 99 (+21)
Speed: 68
Agility: 101 (+23)
Jumping: 40
Stamina: 50
Vision: 55
Confidence: 55
Swat Ball: 6
Wall: 11
Strong Base: 11
Diving Tackle: 5
Monster Hit: 11
Brick Wall: 15
Jump the Snap: 15
Pass Rusher: 15
Power Tackler: 15
23% brk blk

Originally posted by Deathblade
Of course they won't get open...a Cover 2 is intended to counter "omgicanrunfast" WRs. If the FS were nowhere to be found, THEN something would have been wrong.

I don't agree...WRs get long 6s against cover 2 Ds in the real world. Sure, not as much as against a cover 1 or cover 0, but, in over 100 tries (all long WR on 3rd & 4th), at least a handful are going to go for 6. Cover 2 is a big help in deep coverage, but sure shouldn't be a "never ever going to get toasted for 6 deep" type D, particularly when trying to cover pure OMG speed burners

PS....Ds aren't supposed to be perfect. Look at Hail Marys. They go against cover 3s-5s and I'd bet they still get completed for 6 close to 10% of the time. A cover 2 should be a good D against outside deep balls. I'm not even suggesting that a higher % should be completed. I'm simply suggesting that, out of all those deep WR routes, a handful of them should have went for 6.

He's still missing First Step and Tunnel Vision. That build is more of a run stopper than a pass rusher, despite the PR VAs.

Keep up the good work dude. Hopefully you get some changes done.

the fact is that the testers do not know enough about the sim engine to test the game appropriately. I honestly believe that the testers are causing more harm then good. I wish Bort would scrap the testers all together and pay a third party to run private tests that will lead to reliable changes.

A third party with extremely high knowledge of the sim who runs 100+ tests a week will have a much greater chance of coming across fixes.

Although that means Bort has to pay people. Why would he do that when he has a free labor force who are all too eager to find an advantage.

Originally posted by bighoppa67
He's still missing First Step and Tunnel Vision. That build is more of a run stopper than a pass rusher, despite the PR VAs.

I know...It wasn't a perfect test that encompassed all possible DE builds. Personally, the most productive pass rushing DE builds I've seen over the ssns have been along the lines of the 2 I made for the test (bu de & bu de2). That's why I made them

Edit: Though I can't break t down to the extent of the other 3 test sims, I do believe that you have a valid point and am running one more sim. I changed my 2 DEs (bu de & bu de2) to have 90 str, and 82 speed, everything else on their builds remained the same...will link the game as soon as it has simed

Originally posted by czman
the fact is that the testers do not know enough about the sim engine to test the game appropriately. I honestly believe that the testers are causing more harm then good. I wish Bort would scrap the testers all together and pay a third party to run private tests that will lead to reliable changes.

A third party with extremely high knowledge of the sim who runs 100+ tests a week will have a much greater chance of coming across fixes.

Although that means Bort has to pay people. Why would he do that when he has a free labor force who are all too eager to find an advantage.

I also share the belief that testers shouldn't be active players and have written that both before and after becoming one, but I don't see that changing...Now, as far as being essentially a clueless newbie doing more harm than good, I think my credentials may not quite lineup with that statement, but you're entitled to your opinion. As far as being so eager to find an advantage, I think this entire thread blows that completely to shit, particularly when I posted everything here before posting anything to the testers' forum, wasted I have no clue how many hours documenting, linking, pasting builds and describing what I was trying to do/what I found, just to make damn sure everything important was shared with the general user base, but thanks for playing anyway...Oh, and you're welcome

Originally posted by PP
I know...It wasn't a perfect test that encompassed all possible DE builds. Personally, the most productive pass rushing DE builds I've seen over the ssns have been along the lines of the 2 I made for the test (bu de & bu de2). That's why I made them

Edit: Though I can't break t down to the extent of the other 3 test sims, I do believe that you have a valid point and am running one more sim. I changed my 2 DEs (bu de & bu de2) to have 90 str, and 82 speed, everything else on their builds remained the same...will link the game as soon as it has simed

http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=1499
0 sacks, 1 hurry each...both starters with an 80/85 sub rate
Edit: the 2 hgher str dots were set to alternate between power and evasive pass rush, since they had decent str and still had great agility (when the were speed/agil guys, had them on pure evasive)

all DLmen combined, 0 sacks, 11 hurries in 228 passing attempts

With that, do believe I've provided more than a fair test of 4 man pass rushing and will not be changing builds and running it again

Originally posted by bighoppa67
Watching some of the PBPs it looks like the DEs were:

- blasting five yards past the QB then turning around only to get blocked by the OT (this looked like a pathing issue)


http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=3437069

There is a thread in suggestions to look at it. Similar things have been posted in bugs multiple times but Bort said that's how elusive is supposed to work, which I don't think many would agree with so that's why the suggestions is now being made.

Originally posted by PP
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=1499
0 sacks, 1 hurry each...both starters with an 80/85 sub rate
Edit: the 2 hgher str dots were set to alternate between power and evasive pass rush, since they had decent str and still had great agility (when the were speed/agil guys, had them on pure evasive)

all DLmen combined, 0 sacks, 11 hurries in 228 passing attempts

With that, do believe I've provided more than a fair test of 4 man pass rushing and will not be changing builds and running it again

That's pretty embarrassing, the fact that a d-line with out of this world insanely impossibly good builds can't get any sacks. This needs to be fixed.

Originally posted by Absolut Zero
That's pretty embarrassing, the fact that a d-line with out of this world insanely impossibly good builds can't get any sacks. This needs to be fixed.

Those builds aren't impossible good.

I'm actually looking at a DE with a better build (by quite a bit) than the Starting RDE1. They are probably above average though, and sacks do seem down for some reason.

dont know if it was said yet but with all those plays stamina must have been an issue, i would give everyone some ridicules amount like 100 to make sure that isn't an issue.

Originally posted by Deathblade
Those builds aren't impossible good.

I'm actually looking at a DE with a better build (by quite a bit) than the Starting RDE1. They are probably above average though, and sacks do seem down for some reason.

They are impossibly good. You will not find a DT with 96 raw strength, 77 raw speed, and 105 raw agility. That will never happen. Look at how many points are also put into minors and tackling. SA's are brought up fairly high too. And are there even enough bonus tokens to upgrade 4 AEQ pieces enough times to get the SA's up to 4 each?

bu DT (Lv. 40 DT)
Strength: 96
Speed: 83 (+6)
Agility: 123 (+18) 127.73 w vets
Jumping: 40
Stamina: 53 (+3)
Vision: 60
Confidence: 50
Tackling: 68
The Glare: 5
Shed Blocks: 10
Swat Ball: 5
Strong Base: 10
Wall: 6
Break Through: 6

Blitz: 4
First Step: 8
Superior Vision: 4

Quick: 15
Clutch: 15
Jump the Snap: 15
Pass Rusher: 15