Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Rage Kinard
CBs can be great return men. The key is to make a return man and not a CB.

For 1, they are cheaper than HB/WR.

2 - Don't listen to the SA crowd. You aren't going to be spending a crapload in SAs anyway and first step/quick cut(change of direction) are the best 2 SAs for a return man regardless of if you are using a HB, WR, or CB. At most you are looking at 7-7-7 first step/quick cut/return specialist by low 50's in level counting CEQ and with no other points spent in any other SAs.

3 - You can get spin/juke AE and get it as high as you should invest in normally even if you are building a WR/HB return man. There is also +% to not fumble equipment out there.




1. cheaper, but not as good
2. an elusive HB return man should have a healthy dose of headfake and juke. what are you talking about?
3. spin/juke ae will get it as high as you should invest as a hb? really? wow. and waste a SECOND AE for % not fumble? that is useful

Originally posted by Negronic
Originally posted by Rage Kinard

CBs can be great return men. The key is to make a return man and not a CB.

For 1, they are cheaper than HB/WR.

2 - Don't listen to the SA crowd. You aren't going to be spending a crapload in SAs anyway and first step/quick cut(change of direction) are the best 2 SAs for a return man regardless of if you are using a HB, WR, or CB. At most you are looking at 7-7-7 first step/quick cut/return specialist by low 50's in level counting CEQ and with no other points spent in any other SAs.

3 - You can get spin/juke AE and get it as high as you should invest in normally even if you are building a WR/HB return man. There is also +% to not fumble equipment out there.




1. cheaper, but not as good
2. an elusive HB return man should have a healthy dose of headfake and juke. what are you talking about?
3. spin/juke ae will get it as high as you should invest as a hb? really? wow. and waste a SECOND AE for % not fumble? that is useful





Considering you should

1. 4th cap speed
2. 3rd cap agility
3. 3rd cap vision
then
1st cap carrying
1st cap strength
2nd cap carrying
1st cap confidence
1st cap stamina
plus have 6 (without counting equip) in quick cut and first step

How much are you going to put into spin and juke?

Originally posted by Negronic

3. spin/juke ae will get it as high as you should invest as a hb? really? wow. and waste a SECOND AE for % not fumble? that is useful



The not fumble % is for early while you are developing. I know a CB that now has 2 pieces of AEQ. 1 is +juke and the other is +spin. You can also find individual pieces that are +1 spin, +3% not fumble chance.

I have a CB Return Man and at level 52 I have ran out of useful things to level, so I am going to keep upping strength for the hell of it. I realize now that HB would have been so much better because I could dump points into Juke and Head Fake and get the benefits of Return Man. You also have a useful 3rd VA in Quick Feet.

Originally posted by PackAttack785
You also have a useful 3rd VA in Quick Feet.

Slippery is a useful VA as well.

Originally posted by Negronic
Originally posted by Oofty

Don't make a CB. Make a WR or HB.

Return Specialist is aight, but I'd rather have the combination of Head Fake, Juke, and Spin more... Heck, even the power SAs for HBs have been shown to be pretty beastly on KR/PR if coupled with 3rd-4th cap+ speed and agility and 3rd+ cap strength and hard-cap carrying.

this.

you can't even tell exactly what bonuses return spec gives you. with maxed quick feet, return man, and special teamer, an elusive HB is an absolute monster.



cant you get it in AEQ?

My CB (Special Ed Teamer) is a KR/PR, and a while ago he rolled +2 Speed/Head fake SA --- I almost crapped my pants.

So, despite being a CB, I still have the benefit of the Head Fake SA for my guy. Best of both worlds.

Originally posted by YOM77
My CB (Special Ed Teamer) is a KR/PR, and a while ago he rolled +2 Speed/Head fake SA --- I almost crapped my pants.

So, despite being a CB, I still have the benefit of the Head Fake SA for my guy. Best of both worlds.

Our you could have Juke AND Head Fake and get a Special Teamer AE...

Originally posted by PackAttack785
Originally posted by YOM77

My CB (Special Ed Teamer) is a KR/PR, and a while ago he rolled +2 Speed/Head fake SA --- I almost crapped my pants.

So, despite being a CB, I still have the benefit of the Head Fake SA for my guy. Best of both worlds.

Our you could have Juke AND Head Fake and get a Special Teamer AE...

I've never seen the "Special Teamer" AEQ. Has anyone ever actually rolled this?

I guess, from my perspective, CB's are more fundamentally built to be KR/PR in terms of attributes. Typically, CBs are going to be faster and more agile than HBs. This is TYPICALLY. I know there's HB's out there built purely on speed that could burn any CB they face, but the majority of the time, CBs are better suited for return duty based on attributes. Do HBs/WRs have better SA's for return duty? Perhaps. For me, I'd rather have a 100 speed/70 agility/65 vision CB with returner VAs and return specialist SA and a Head Fake or Juke AEQ.

Everyone will have a different angle on it, and if I'm being honest, I'm not convinced one way is right and another is wrong. Frankly, my CB blows at KR/PR this season in my opinion, and he's got 15 points in Special Teamer VA, 6 points in Return Man VA, 100 Speed, 69 Agility, and 3 Return Spec SA. AND he's playing in a lower League.

The magic formula for the perfect return guy is still lost on me, because I thought I built it, and I'm not getting desired results.

Originally posted by YOM77
Perhaps. For me, I'd rather have a 100 speed/70 agility/65 vision CB with returner VAs and return specialist SA and a Head Fake or Juke AEQ.



Too slow and not enough agility.


(unless you are talking about a level 32 player)

Originally posted by Rage Kinard
Originally posted by YOM77

Perhaps. For me, I'd rather have a 100 speed/70 agility/65 vision CB with returner VAs and return specialist SA and a Head Fake or Juke AEQ.



Too slow and not enough agility.


(unless you are talking about a level 32 player)


Sorry, but you won't convince me that 100 speed is too slow for a level 43 in an A League. If I were to have speed higher, vision/tackling/agility/etc would be significantly lower. Speed isn't everything, despite what half of GLB would like to believe. What does 120 speed do for me if I don't have enough vision to see the plays? And so on...

I'm very pleased with where my speed is right now for my level and competition.

Originally posted by YOM77
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Sorry, but you won't convince me that 100 speed is too slow for a level 43 in an A League. If I were to have speed higher, vision/tackling/agility/etc would be significantly lower. Speed isn't everything, despite what half of GLB would like to believe. What does 120 speed do for me if I don't have enough vision to see the plays? And so on...

I'm very pleased with where my speed is right now for my level and competition.


Level 27 CB
Natural attribute levels
Speed 78.12
Agility 68.12
Vision 38.12

By level 40 natural attribute levels
Speed 80.6
Agility 70.6
Vision 68
Carrying 48
Strength, stamina, confidence - low 30's

By level 48
Speed 82 + 3 pieces of equipment and 1 piece of custom = 109
Agility 72 + 1 piece of equipment = 79
Vision 69+
Carrying 61
Strength 48
stamina, confidence - high 30's
(add in any bonuses from AEQ)

Now you are ready to start adding SAs

Originally posted by Rage Kinard
Originally posted by YOM77

Perhaps. For me, I'd rather have a 100 speed/70 agility/65 vision CB with returner VAs and return specialist SA and a Head Fake or Juke AEQ.



Too slow and not enough agility.


(unless you are talking about a level 32 player)

Well my returner has returned in Pro Leagues and is Level 52 and from observing him and other teamates return, I can tell you Head Fake and Juke are invaluable.

Originally posted by PackAttack785
Originally posted by Rage Kinard

Originally posted by YOM77


Perhaps. For me, I'd rather have a 100 speed/70 agility/65 vision CB with returner VAs and return specialist SA and a Head Fake or Juke AEQ.



Too slow and not enough agility.


(unless you are talking about a level 32 player)

Well my returner has returned in Pro Leagues and is Level 52 and from observing him and other teamates return, I can tell you Head Fake and Juke are invaluable.

Then why don't HBs always do better than CBs at returning in Pro leagues?

Originally posted by Rage Kinard
Originally posted by PackAttack785

Originally posted by Rage Kinard


Originally posted by YOM77



Perhaps. For me, I'd rather have a 100 speed/70 agility/65 vision CB with returner VAs and return specialist SA and a Head Fake or Juke AEQ.



Too slow and not enough agility.


(unless you are talking about a level 32 player)

Well my returner has returned in Pro Leagues and is Level 52 and from observing him and other teamates return, I can tell you Head Fake and Juke are invaluable.

Then why don't HBs always do better than CBs at returning in Pro leagues?

Most of the players originally created to be strict returners were CBs, because that was the obvious choice with what we knew back in season 1/2. Most of the HB returning probably do not have Special Teamer or Return Man.