Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Mightyhalo
speed, and some more speed, and a little more speed, maybe a little agility, then more speed.

What if a player has an angle on you and no speed in the world will help you?

In general, I would say a CB is slightly better at building strictly for returns. I think HB's are naturally better if they are 'plugged in' but if you build one from scratch I'd prefer the CB. Here's my reasoning:

3 Plausible SA's compared to 4 or 5 for the HB. Regardless of their effectivness, those SA's cost alot of SP to get them to decent levels. A similarily leveld CB would have a much better build in his attributes compared to a HB for this reason.

With the higher base attributes, VA's will give you more bonuses Return Man and Special teamer give you more bang fr the buck. Yes, you may lose out on the fake effectivness by nut having those SAs. But 15 into Return Man, 15 into Special Teamer and 11 into Return Spec can pump up the base attributes to rediculous levels for a KR/PR.

Also, with AEQ, a CB can very easily gain 2 of these abilities and get them to level 4 by the time they are level 48. Plus, the fakes are not as successful against higher leveled competition so they may work great for level 24-40 but once you get special team players with high vision, agility speed and VA totals, you're better off out running them than trying to fake them out.


Just my opinion, I think HBs can be a very good option at KR/PR too. But if you're only building one for returning from the beginning, I'd go CB.

imo, hb have skills that naturally level up that cater better to returning

Originally posted by PackAttack785
Originally posted by 70Chevelle

Originally posted by Rage Kinard


Originally posted by YOM77



Perhaps. For me, I'd rather have a 100 speed/70 agility/65 vision CB with returner VAs and return specialist SA and a Head Fake or Juke AEQ.



Too slow and not enough agility.


(unless you are talking about a level 32 player)

LOL my level 49 return man doesn't even have 100 speed and he does just fine

IMO vision is greatly underestimated for return men



IMO speed is overrated on a return man. Basically you need enough to outrun the defense once you pass the defenders. I think I might try topping it at 90-95 on my next player.


90-95 is going to outrun the DTs. Most LBs I've seen being built are going to have 100+ speed, 75+ agility, and 70+ vision. Most DBs are going to have about 110 speed, 80+ agility, and 75+ vision. DEs are usually going to have 90 speed and over 100 agility or over 100 speed and 90 agility.

Level 55-60 players now are built like shit compared to what the better level 25-36 players are going to look like once they reach those levels.

I have a shit ton of vision and agility and speed in the early 90's and he is a SS, with VA's and is top three in AA's and he is a 46 in a 50+ league

Originally posted by Rage Kinard
Originally posted by PackAttack785

Originally posted by 70Chevelle


Originally posted by Rage Kinard



Originally posted by YOM77




Perhaps. For me, I'd rather have a 100 speed/70 agility/65 vision CB with returner VAs and return specialist SA and a Head Fake or Juke AEQ.



Too slow and not enough agility.


(unless you are talking about a level 32 player)

LOL my level 49 return man doesn't even have 100 speed and he does just fine

IMO vision is greatly underestimated for return men



IMO speed is overrated on a return man. Basically you need enough to outrun the defense once you pass the defenders. I think I might try topping it at 90-95 on my next player.


90-95 is going to outrun the DTs. Most LBs I've seen being built are going to have 100+ speed, 75+ agility, and 70+ vision. Most DBs are going to have about 110 speed, 80+ agility, and 75+ vision. DEs are usually going to have 90 speed and over 100 agility or over 100 speed and 90 agility.

Level 55-60 players now are built like shit compared to what the better level 25-36 players are going to look like once they reach those levels.

You don't need to outrun them, you need to make sure they don't run you down. I fly past defenders at 100 speed and end up having a ridiculous amount of turf between me and the closest man.

All things being equal I have to agree.

H.B.
W.R.
C.B.

top 3 in order.

I am very lucky my cb worked out.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=1210774&playoffs=0

Best return man imo-

HB

Natural Attributes-
80 Speed+40 or so in equipment=120
80 Agility
68 Carrying
60 Vision
60 Strength
softcapped confidence and stamina


SA's
9-7-7-7-5(Possibly more)
4-4-4-4-0(Possibly more)
10 in Return Specialist through Advanced EQ

VA's
15 Special Teamer
15 Return Man
15 Quick Feet

He bolts down the field with his immense speed boosted even more by special teamer and return specialist. He should fake out a good deal of defenders thanks to high level elusive SA's and return man/quick feet and even break some tackles due to his high carrying and strength and power sa's. Should fumble very little thanks to high strength, carrying, return man VA, and cover up. I'm planning this build with my HB Long Tall Dex and hopefully I can get most if not all of this accomplished. Only problem I can see here is lack of SP to get everything done =P this is obviously a high end attribute intensive build that finishes level 60+ but should prove very effective along the way.

Start by training speed/agility until you can cap speed, then cap it while training agility+vision. continue putting sp's into speed until agility reaches 30 and then cap it. train vision/confidence until vision reaches 30 then switch to carrying+strength, by the time agility+speed reach the 5:1 cap you can stop as natural level gains and later training should take them the rest of the way to 80. By now, strength/carrying/vision should all be 30 or so, begin by softcapping carrying, and then capping strength and vision. Then take carrying to the second cap, vision to the second cap, and strength to the second cap, all while training confidence+stamina. Eventually, take carrying to the third cap or leave it at the second cap if you wish. Eventually you can softcap stamina and confidence. Now, any training should be done on speed/agility because it is more SP efficient to do so, to attempt to get them to 80 along with natural level gains to help. You will have to stop intense training enough to find two pieces of return specialist EQ, preferably each with at least a +1 attribute to speed/agility/carrying/vision/strength. If you can find one with three speed in it you won the freaking lottery. Begin throwing all bonus tokens into them. All SP at this point (level 44 or so I am guessing, someone please let me know if they have a better estimate) should now be thrown directly into SA's. It should take 66 SP to get the elusive tree to the level above and 24 sp to get the power tree to the level above, or 90 sp total, which equates to 18 levels, meaning the build finishes at around level 60. Once you have enough bonus tokens to get the return specialist pieces to 5 each you can stop and use your tokens for token boosting to get more SP. Remaining SP and levels should be spent on getting SA's higher.

Originally posted by Mysterio
Best return man imo-

HB

Natural Attributes-
80 Speed+40 or so in equipment=120
80 Agility
68 Carrying
60 Vision
60 Strength
softcapped confidence and stamina


SA's
9-7-7-7-5(Possibly more)
4-4-4-4-0(Possibly more)
10 in Return Specialist through Advanced EQ

VA's
15 Special Teamer
15 Return Man
15 Quick Feet

He bolts down the field with his immense speed boosted even more by special teamer and return specialist. He should fake out a good deal of defenders thanks to high level elusive SA's and return man/quick feet and even break some tackles due to his high carrying and strength and power sa's. Should fumble very little thanks to high strength, carrying, return man VA, and cover up. I'm planning this build with my HB Long Tall Dex and hopefully I can get most if not all of this accomplished. Only problem I can see here is lack of SP to get everything done =P this is obviously a high end attribute intensive build that finishes level 60+ but should prove very effective along the way.

Start by training speed/agility until you can cap speed, then cap it while training agility+vision. continue putting sp's into speed until agility reaches 30 and then cap it. train vision/confidence until vision reaches 30 then switch to carrying+strength, by the time agility+speed reach the 5:1 cap you can stop as natural level gains and later training should take them the rest of the way to 80. By now, strength/carrying/vision should all be 30 or so, begin by softcapping carrying, and then capping strength and vision. Then take carrying to the second cap, vision to the second cap, and strength to the second cap, all while training confidence+stamina. Eventually, take carrying to the third cap or leave it at the second cap if you wish. Eventually you can softcap stamina and confidence. Now, any training should be done on speed/agility because it is more SP efficient to do so, to attempt to get them to 80 along with natural level gains to help. You will have to stop intense training enough to find two pieces of return specialist EQ, preferably each with at least a +1 attribute to speed/agility/carrying/vision/strength. If you can find one with three speed in it you won the freaking lottery. Begin throwing all bonus tokens into them. All SP at this point (level 44 or so I am guessing, someone please let me know if they have a better estimate) should now be thrown directly into SA's. It should take 66 SP to get the elusive tree to the level above and 24 sp to get the power tree to the level above, or 90 sp total, which equates to 18 levels, meaning the build finishes at around level 60. Once you have enough bonus tokens to get the return specialist pieces to 5 each you can stop and use your tokens for token boosting to get more SP. Remaining SP and levels should be spent on getting SA's higher.



He would be a return god. If you can actually meet that goal, I'd be quite impressed.

So, with the update to fakes and stuff, what is the new "truth"?

Im building a pure KR/PR CB myself. Ive already taken his speed to 74 natural and Im about to take agility up in the next few levels. Despite common advice, however, Im going to take agility to at least 74 as well. My goal is speed=agility+10(15). I also believe that 60 vision will be sufficient.

Originally posted by YOM77
This is incorrect.



Not according to Bort.

I prefer DEs as return men tbh

That .5 into Speed and Agility every level is NICE