too many teams top to bottom, just trim the fat, less teams per conference---free agency is silly--FA's know they have the upper hand, don't return messages, etc
Dr. E
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Originally posted by AngryDragon
The biggest flaw in the OP is the assumption that the leagues are currently in a competitive state. They are not. There are many teams that have been placed into inappropriate leagues for the last couple seasons. There needs to be a major shuffle so the OP can have a legitimate shot at improving the game experience for everybody.
Right now this is like the worst bug the game has ever seen and it can only be addressed in the offseason. The admins have one shot to get it right and the foundation of the problem is not even being addressed.
I disagree. With the exception of the cap exploits, the leagues are very competitive.
The biggest flaw in the OP is the assumption that the leagues are currently in a competitive state. They are not. There are many teams that have been placed into inappropriate leagues for the last couple seasons. There needs to be a major shuffle so the OP can have a legitimate shot at improving the game experience for everybody.
Right now this is like the worst bug the game has ever seen and it can only be addressed in the offseason. The admins have one shot to get it right and the foundation of the problem is not even being addressed.
I disagree. With the exception of the cap exploits, the leagues are very competitive.
WiSeIVIaN
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Originally posted by DigitalDaggers
The proposed system is the system we are using for Season 17. It isn't a major overhaul, but it is an improvement.
We are open to improving the League Structure further in Season 18, and we will be working on our tournament system. If we were to remove the World League we would need the tournament system improved to handle a "World Championship" Tournament.
It would be extremely sexy for bort to make a tournament interface that auto-schedules scrims once teams are in.
He could auto-opt in teams for his tourny of champions of course (which I'd imagine should be free) with the top 64 or 128 pro teams or something.
But also, it would be very nice for those other tournies that exist to have a system which auto-schedules these games. Maybe make teams who apply and are accepted pay 75-150 flex depending on how many teams are in the tourny, and give teams a "tourny history page"
I know it belongs in suggestions, but the whole thing would be very very sexy imo.
The proposed system is the system we are using for Season 17. It isn't a major overhaul, but it is an improvement.
We are open to improving the League Structure further in Season 18, and we will be working on our tournament system. If we were to remove the World League we would need the tournament system improved to handle a "World Championship" Tournament.
It would be extremely sexy for bort to make a tournament interface that auto-schedules scrims once teams are in.
He could auto-opt in teams for his tourny of champions of course (which I'd imagine should be free) with the top 64 or 128 pro teams or something.
But also, it would be very nice for those other tournies that exist to have a system which auto-schedules these games. Maybe make teams who apply and are accepted pay 75-150 flex depending on how many teams are in the tourny, and give teams a "tourny history page"
I know it belongs in suggestions, but the whole thing would be very very sexy imo.
Thomkatt52
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Originally posted by amace
This still does not address dispairity in the league. I have a simple solution, just hear me out.
What needs to be done, is teams go to the minimum cap they qualify for.
What this does, it makes the game about the best gameplans and builds. Isn't that what footbal lshoudl be about? Not exploiting the system. Its about quality players and quality gameplans.
How do you qualify?
The highest level player on your team determines what cap you fit in.
If you whole team except one player is level 14, and the one player is 15, you do not qualify for cap 14.
At the end of each season, teams only move if they don't qualify for that cap anymore.(with the exception of any uncapped league)
What does that mean?
It means if you win cap 14 with all level 13 players somehow, you have the option to stay in 14, or request a promotion.
If you lose cap 14, but have level 23 players, you move to cap 28, or you cut any players over level 22 and go to cap 22.
There will be complaints, as yes, sometimes league champions MIGHT stay in the same league, if they do, that means they are just in a terrible league. As you should normally not be able to win a lower minor league championship with all players under the level cap.
Players over move up.
The benefits? It really matches up who is Better at the game. Isn't that what the game is about? Its not about blowing two seasons so you have level 30's in cap 18. Its about recruiting good dots and coming up with good gameplans.
Re-aligning the leagues will work in theory, but after a few seasons we'll ahve the same mess we've always had.
PLEASE, just take the time and do it right. Changing a few caps and forced promotion methods won't fix anything in the long run, just cause more problems later on.
I can't see how my suggestion will fail. There will be no more super-powerful teams in low caps. There will be no low level teams in high caps. The only disparity will be the difference in quality between coordinators and players, which is what Football should be about.
You don't see high school teams mixed in with the NFL, yet a similar thing constantly happens in almost all GLB leagues. A middle of the road team can blow out a bad team 255-0, while at the same time, get blown out by a top team in the league 255-0
*edit.
Some people might say that the caps should be effective level. I'm not sure that will help, but its for another discussion. The same format I suggested can be implemented either way.
Quite a few people (including myself) thought this was how the CAP system would be implemented, and enforced to begin with. I guess it was too simple to expect it to be followed. If your (or my) level 28 player needs to be in a cap 22, or 26 league to be competitive that's too bad.
Why call it a cap 26 league if you have teams with a roster that includes level 30 players? Don't tell me it's to be competitive, cause it's not working. As stated many times, teams are throwing games at the halfway point to be "competitive" the next season. Avoiding the playoffs does the trick.
This still does not address dispairity in the league. I have a simple solution, just hear me out.
What needs to be done, is teams go to the minimum cap they qualify for.
What this does, it makes the game about the best gameplans and builds. Isn't that what footbal lshoudl be about? Not exploiting the system. Its about quality players and quality gameplans.
How do you qualify?
The highest level player on your team determines what cap you fit in.
If you whole team except one player is level 14, and the one player is 15, you do not qualify for cap 14.
At the end of each season, teams only move if they don't qualify for that cap anymore.(with the exception of any uncapped league)
What does that mean?
It means if you win cap 14 with all level 13 players somehow, you have the option to stay in 14, or request a promotion.
If you lose cap 14, but have level 23 players, you move to cap 28, or you cut any players over level 22 and go to cap 22.
There will be complaints, as yes, sometimes league champions MIGHT stay in the same league, if they do, that means they are just in a terrible league. As you should normally not be able to win a lower minor league championship with all players under the level cap.
Players over move up.
The benefits? It really matches up who is Better at the game. Isn't that what the game is about? Its not about blowing two seasons so you have level 30's in cap 18. Its about recruiting good dots and coming up with good gameplans.
Re-aligning the leagues will work in theory, but after a few seasons we'll ahve the same mess we've always had.
PLEASE, just take the time and do it right. Changing a few caps and forced promotion methods won't fix anything in the long run, just cause more problems later on.
I can't see how my suggestion will fail. There will be no more super-powerful teams in low caps. There will be no low level teams in high caps. The only disparity will be the difference in quality between coordinators and players, which is what Football should be about.
You don't see high school teams mixed in with the NFL, yet a similar thing constantly happens in almost all GLB leagues. A middle of the road team can blow out a bad team 255-0, while at the same time, get blown out by a top team in the league 255-0
*edit.
Some people might say that the caps should be effective level. I'm not sure that will help, but its for another discussion. The same format I suggested can be implemented either way.
Quite a few people (including myself) thought this was how the CAP system would be implemented, and enforced to begin with. I guess it was too simple to expect it to be followed. If your (or my) level 28 player needs to be in a cap 22, or 26 league to be competitive that's too bad.
Why call it a cap 26 league if you have teams with a roster that includes level 30 players? Don't tell me it's to be competitive, cause it's not working. As stated many times, teams are throwing games at the halfway point to be "competitive" the next season. Avoiding the playoffs does the trick.
Forcing a winning team that DID NOT win it all up 2 caps when ALL 55 builds would still be under a single cap promotion is a whole other can of worms. Why bring a team full of level 37's in 34 cap season who went 14-2 but did not win a championship to the 42 cap league (double cap jump) when ALL of them qualify for an elite minors 38 cap instead!
Thats where the backwards thinking here is more money driven then parity driven, its hard to say they care about league structure with alterior motives like this i'm afraid!
Thats where the backwards thinking here is more money driven then parity driven, its hard to say they care about league structure with alterior motives like this i'm afraid!
Tactical Genius
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Originally posted by The Avenger
Forcing a winning team that DID NOT win it all up 2 caps when ALL 55 builds would still be under a single cap promotion is a whole other can of worms. Why bring a team full of level 37's in 34 cap season who went 14-2 but did not win a championship to the 42 cap league (double cap jump) when ALL of them qualify for an elite minors 38 cap instead!
Thats where the backwards thinking here is more money driven then parity driven, its hard to say they care about league structure with alterior motives like this i'm afraid!
Question: My team got promoted 2 levels 2 seasons in a row. We ended up in a level 46 Elite league outleveled by 10 levels by some of the teams in our league. Even at the end of this season we are still under the level 46 cap (average level 44) but because we did not finish in the bottom 2, will we still be promoted to a level 54 league? Or will we be allowed to stay in Lv46?
If we go into Lv 54 we will again be outleveled by 10 levels and no doubt take another season of beatings. It's like we are being penalized for having a couple of good seasons. At the end of the day, it's a game, and it's hard to keep your players motivated to continue playing when you are not in a competitive league.
Forcing a winning team that DID NOT win it all up 2 caps when ALL 55 builds would still be under a single cap promotion is a whole other can of worms. Why bring a team full of level 37's in 34 cap season who went 14-2 but did not win a championship to the 42 cap league (double cap jump) when ALL of them qualify for an elite minors 38 cap instead!
Thats where the backwards thinking here is more money driven then parity driven, its hard to say they care about league structure with alterior motives like this i'm afraid!
Question: My team got promoted 2 levels 2 seasons in a row. We ended up in a level 46 Elite league outleveled by 10 levels by some of the teams in our league. Even at the end of this season we are still under the level 46 cap (average level 44) but because we did not finish in the bottom 2, will we still be promoted to a level 54 league? Or will we be allowed to stay in Lv46?
If we go into Lv 54 we will again be outleveled by 10 levels and no doubt take another season of beatings. It's like we are being penalized for having a couple of good seasons. At the end of the day, it's a game, and it's hard to keep your players motivated to continue playing when you are not in a competitive league.
Edited by Tactical Genius on Jul 5, 2010 06:42:59
Mightyhalo
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Originally posted by Tactical Genius
Question: My team got promoted 2 levels 2 seasons in a row. We ended up in a level 46 Elite league outleveled by 10 levels by some of the teams in our league. Even at the end of this season we are still under the level 46 cap (average level 44) but because we did not finish in the bottom 2, will we still be promoted to a level 54 league? Or will we be allowed to stay in Lv46?
If we go into Lv 54 we will again be outleveled by 10 levels and no doubt take another season of beatings. It's like we are being penalized for having a couple of good seasons. At the end of the day, it's a game, and it's hard to keep your players motivated to continue playing when you are not in a competitive league.
You could request to stay in a 46 cap but you lose part of your stadium and cash and take a chemistry hit I believe.
What the promotion rules don't account for are the numerous teams in each league who don't try, or who throw games. My teams league has several teams like this, and one team blatantly threw games by playing all offensive guys on defense and all defensive guys on offense and they were a team that would have easily made the playoffs. Since they threw games, they made sure a team that shouldn't of made the playoffs into a 2 cap jump.
Like other teams, they are positioning themselves to have an advantage through the capped leagues.
Question: My team got promoted 2 levels 2 seasons in a row. We ended up in a level 46 Elite league outleveled by 10 levels by some of the teams in our league. Even at the end of this season we are still under the level 46 cap (average level 44) but because we did not finish in the bottom 2, will we still be promoted to a level 54 league? Or will we be allowed to stay in Lv46?
If we go into Lv 54 we will again be outleveled by 10 levels and no doubt take another season of beatings. It's like we are being penalized for having a couple of good seasons. At the end of the day, it's a game, and it's hard to keep your players motivated to continue playing when you are not in a competitive league.
You could request to stay in a 46 cap but you lose part of your stadium and cash and take a chemistry hit I believe.
What the promotion rules don't account for are the numerous teams in each league who don't try, or who throw games. My teams league has several teams like this, and one team blatantly threw games by playing all offensive guys on defense and all defensive guys on offense and they were a team that would have easily made the playoffs. Since they threw games, they made sure a team that shouldn't of made the playoffs into a 2 cap jump.
Like other teams, they are positioning themselves to have an advantage through the capped leagues.
Mike1709
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The trouble is 46 cap to 54 cap is like a 2 cap jump (even though it doesn't look like there is going to be a cap between) and will have the same effect of going from 30 to 38 and 38 to 46 which we have done the past 2 seasons.
yo Dpride they really punched you in the face early on in this thread....
League structure change is meh....
League structure change is meh....
Falseelk
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Originally posted by ImTheScientist
That would be even better and even more fun. The more teams you can involve at the highest lvl the more fun people have. The WL is not fun. Its only fun for maybe 2 or 3 teams every year. The rest have no shot, lose, and many gut and stop playing for the season.
If these teams are in Pro they have fun, increase the Pro forum activity, you play w/ the teams you "grew up with", and more people "feel" they have a shot at winning it all....which is important.
Lastly, the WL has killed more good teams than it has helped...thats a fact. Mergers, gutting, people losing interest all together, and cheating to compete at that lvl. Only 1% even get to see the top of the pyramid. If the WL didn't exist many more teams see the top of the pyramid which is the Pro level and more people are happy and willing to fight it out.
That would be even better and even more fun. The more teams you can involve at the highest lvl the more fun people have. The WL is not fun. Its only fun for maybe 2 or 3 teams every year. The rest have no shot, lose, and many gut and stop playing for the season.
If these teams are in Pro they have fun, increase the Pro forum activity, you play w/ the teams you "grew up with", and more people "feel" they have a shot at winning it all....which is important.
Lastly, the WL has killed more good teams than it has helped...thats a fact. Mergers, gutting, people losing interest all together, and cheating to compete at that lvl. Only 1% even get to see the top of the pyramid. If the WL didn't exist many more teams see the top of the pyramid which is the Pro level and more people are happy and willing to fight it out.
Asked in post #2, but I'll repost....
How is the initial league split up for uncapped going to be handled. For the teams currently in AAA, will all the playoff teams stay in AAA? My team was #24 in effective level, but finished 12 - 4 this season. I will be highly pissed if we are demoted to AA simply because of our effective level.
How is the initial league split up for uncapped going to be handled. For the teams currently in AAA, will all the playoff teams stay in AAA? My team was #24 in effective level, but finished 12 - 4 this season. I will be highly pissed if we are demoted to AA simply because of our effective level.
beenlurken
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Originally posted by beenlurken
Originally posted by beenlurken
Again... Decline has been killing good teams
You guys quickly forget that we had 11 seasons of the same players where teams could indefinitely remain competitive. You guys forget how dots gravitated to certain regions (weakening other regions) so they could get the "WL type" experience.
The WL has done a lot so far to increase the regional parity. The reason the Pro Leagues suck right now is because there is not enough end game dots to support them... as well as the fact that we continue to allow teams that have gutted and/or rebuilt to stay at the Pro level so long as they can beat the others that have done such (we really need to demote 8 teams out of the Pro leagues... 4 from each conference).
Originally posted by beenlurken
Merging, colluding, cheating, gutting, loss of interest was already happening before the WL. The harsh position decline put teams in only made it worse. There would have been less (or the same as before WL) had teams not struggled to manage decline.
Originally posted by beenlurken
Again... Decline has been killing good teams
You guys quickly forget that we had 11 seasons of the same players where teams could indefinitely remain competitive. You guys forget how dots gravitated to certain regions (weakening other regions) so they could get the "WL type" experience.
The WL has done a lot so far to increase the regional parity. The reason the Pro Leagues suck right now is because there is not enough end game dots to support them... as well as the fact that we continue to allow teams that have gutted and/or rebuilt to stay at the Pro level so long as they can beat the others that have done such (we really need to demote 8 teams out of the Pro leagues... 4 from each conference).
Originally posted by beenlurken
Merging, colluding, cheating, gutting, loss of interest was already happening before the WL. The harsh position decline put teams in only made it worse. There would have been less (or the same as before WL) had teams not struggled to manage decline.
Triple_A
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Originally posted by DigitalDaggers
The proposed system is the system we are using for Season 17. It isn't a major overhaul, but it is an improvement.
We are open to improving the League Structure further in Season 18, and we will be working on our tournament system. If we were to remove the World League we would need the tournament system improved to handle a "World Championship" Tournament.
We have been having this discussion for over 3 seasons now and now we are hearing "we are working on improving league structure for season 18. GG,
The very first problem with league structure is that their is not the proper people involved to make the right decisions. Just make the changes, are you afraid players will get mad, seriously, this has gone on too long.
The proposed system is the system we are using for Season 17. It isn't a major overhaul, but it is an improvement.
We are open to improving the League Structure further in Season 18, and we will be working on our tournament system. If we were to remove the World League we would need the tournament system improved to handle a "World Championship" Tournament.
We have been having this discussion for over 3 seasons now and now we are hearing "we are working on improving league structure for season 18. GG,
The very first problem with league structure is that their is not the proper people involved to make the right decisions. Just make the changes, are you afraid players will get mad, seriously, this has gone on too long.
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