Warrior General Games

Originally posted by r8
I didn't realize you were expecting a response to that, tbh. Just seemed like a statement to me.

And really, we just want to keep things in check. Now I know you guys are going to come back with OMG BUT QBS AND HBS ARE PUTTING UP TONS OF YARDS, but usually they only do that against far overmatched teams. In games where both sides are relatively equal, I think the numbers are reasonable. Are they still higher then in real life? Yes, absolutely. But they aren't unreasonable.

Asking for a DE to average 3 sacks a game against evenly matched teams? That's unreasonable. I'm fine if they have a few games each season with 3, 4, or even 5 sacks, but in evenly matched games I really don't want to see a QB on his ass 10 times in a single game because each DE gets 3 sacks and each DT gets 2.

I think that shooting for 8-10% of all passing plays to end up as sacks isn't unreasonable at all. Obviously the percentage should be higher on long pass plays, probably in the range of 15%, and lower on short pass plays, probably closer to 5%, but overall 8-10% sounds fair to me.

The other funny thing about all of this, is that Bort said that the DPC has helped DEs.

How has the DPC helped DEs, if Sack numbers are lower than ever? Yeah, they're lower this season, because of them losing all of their Speed/Agility VA points, while OTs kept most of their Blocking.

So where is the evidence of the DPC helping? Just because they can line them up outside of the OTs? Well in theory, yeah it should help. But in reality, it still doesn't. Not much anyway.

Here is a statistic for you, in a competitive league.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=613250

Check out that DE.

10 games. 7 hurries, 2 sacks.

The guy has 100 Speed/90 Agility/9 First Step/7 Tunnel Vision - and still can't get to the QB. He also has 15 in Pass Rusher, which allegedly gives him a 30% boost to Agility and Strength on 3rd and 4th down, but I guess that isn't enough either. You would think that a 30% boost to that high of natural Agility would be noticeable on film, but apparently not. I mean, what is that, around 100 Speed/120 Agility - or something like that? I know it boosts only the natural Agility, but it's plenty high enough. He also has 15 in Track Star, which gives another 4+ points or so, to that 100 Speed.

So if that's not fast enough, what is?

Honestly, how many DEs have 100 Speed/90 Agility? Maybe 1%? So those guys aren't even quick enough to get to the QB, which to me, shows a serious problem.

He also has plenty enough Strength/Vision, which should be obvious from his scouting bars.

So is that what you guys want? A guy with a tremendous build, only getting to the QB 2 times in 10 games? Who is that fun for? Who is going to keep boosting players for that?

Originally posted by r8
I didn't realize you were expecting a response to that, tbh. Just seemed like a statement to me.

And really, we just want to keep things in check. Now I know you guys are going to come back with OMG BUT QBS AND HBS ARE PUTTING UP TONS OF YARDS, but usually they only do that against far overmatched teams. In games where both sides are relatively equal, I think the numbers are reasonable. Are they still higher then in real life? Yes, absolutely. But they aren't unreasonable.

Asking for a DE to average 3 sacks a game against evenly matched teams? That's unreasonable. I'm fine if they have a few games each season with 3, 4, or even 5 sacks, but in evenly matched games I really don't want to see a QB on his ass 10 times in a single game because each DE gets 3 sacks and each DT gets 2.

I think that shooting for 8-10% of all passing plays to end up as sacks isn't unreasonable at all. Obviously the percentage should be higher on long pass plays, probably in the range of 15%, and lower on short pass plays, probably closer to 5%, but overall 8-10% sounds fair to me.

What we are upset about is that there is even a discussion about how many sacks is fair per game. Shouldn't the builds determine that? The problem I have is that right now its seems it doesn't matter what you do with your DEs build because as you said its unreasonable to think he could get 3 sacks in a game. So even if, as Bukowski pointed out, you have a DE with 100speed and 90agility you still can't put up numbers. I don't think we are saying every DE should get a ton of sacks but the true passrusher should. Now on running plays if they have low strength, vision, tackling ect. They should get owned. I think thats a fair trade off.

This part is for the bold statement above.


Plays Rush Yds Avg TD BrTk TFL Fum FumL
HB George Street 12 12 188.5 15.7 1 15 0 0 0

Link to game
http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=567039


Plays Rush Yds Avg TD BrTk TFL Fum FumL
HB Jedi Knight 32 15 173 11.5 2 10 4 0 0

ALSO 8 catches 140 yards

link to game
http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=566149


I'm not mad about it. I am just pointing out that unreasonable numbers happen for the Offense against good teams. Now some of you may say, "Well you went against 2 of the best RBs in GLB" Thats true and there builds obviously dictated what they could do against my team. I'm fine with that BUT WHY NOT FOR DEs. Superior builds should be able to dominate.

the builds should dictate the stats, not vice versa. if the builds are having DEs get a ton of sacks that just means that the OTs need to improve there builds, not that there is something wrong with the DEs.

Another DE "fix" that did absolutely nothing.

So now the DEs have been more or less useless for 2 seasons? It's been pointed out and pointed out again and again, but nothing has been done to fix it. The 'stun' effect has been minimal, the QB vision check seemed to have more of an effect on the passing game, but not on DEs

Yet passing seems to be "off" for 3 games, and a variety of people including testers are sudden;y up in arms.

PinTBC

I said that I didn't think a DE should be able to AVERAGE 3 sacks PER GAME. That means that he could get 5 against an OT that his build is better then, then only get 1 against an OT that's more evenly matched.

I've made the recommendation to Bort that we increase the frequency of the stun effect, because I too think that the sack rate is way, way, way too low right now. From statistics that I've seen they're as low as 1% per passing play, which is ridiculous. I personally would like to see it closer to 7% on average, or even up to 10% for the really great builds.

hope the raise to stun today will help.

r8 the thing is when HBs average 10+ ypc against top competition why cant the DEs average 3 sacks? i mean if the builds for OTs are not good enough to stop the DEs then we dont care how many sacks they get, its the OTs job to stop the DE not bort's.

Would it be possible to run some sql queries to get all kind of statistics and compare them to the NFL (and/or NCAA) ?

Then choose a common ratio that would be a goal in all next fix/improvements.

It's probably not good for the game if we get the same stats than NLF. But it's worse for the game if we get stats like NFL for sacks (or whatever stat) and 3 times as much pass yardage than the NFL.


And this ratio shouldn't be 1, as even if people want realism, they want it with inflated stats, because it's a game. But with a common ratio, it's still realistic.

Originally posted by ClemUSA
Would it be possible to run some sql queries to get all kind of statistics and compare them to the NFL (and/or NCAA) ?

Then choose a common ratio that would be a goal in all next fix/improvements.

It's probably not good for the game if we get the same stats than NLF. But it's worse for the game if we get stats like NFL for sacks (or whatever stat) and 3 times as much pass yardage than the NFL.


And this ratio shouldn't be 1, as even if people want realism, they want it with inflated stats, because it's a game. But with a common ratio, it's still realistic.




NO. You cannot manipulate the statistics to fit a certain criteria, the builds/tactics have to decide that.

When will people understand this?

Them trying to manipulate the statistics to please the "realism" people, is what got us into this mess in the first place - don't think it hasn't.

Realism: When a 100 AGI/80 SPD DE gets 15 sacks on a 9 SPD/30 AGI OT.

Originally posted by joeflex73
Realism: When a 100 AGI/80 SPD DE gets 15 sacks on a 9 SPD/30 AGI OT.

That my friend is BS

Originally posted by Bukowski
Originally posted by r8

I didn't realize you were expecting a response to that, tbh. Just seemed like a statement to me.

And really, we just want to keep things in check. Now I know you guys are going to come back with OMG BUT QBS AND HBS ARE PUTTING UP TONS OF YARDS, but usually they only do that against far overmatched teams. In games where both sides are relatively equal, I think the numbers are reasonable. Are they still higher then in real life? Yes, absolutely. But they aren't unreasonable.

Asking for a DE to average 3 sacks a game against evenly matched teams? That's unreasonable. I'm fine if they have a few games each season with 3, 4, or even 5 sacks, but in evenly matched games I really don't want to see a QB on his ass 10 times in a single game because each DE gets 3 sacks and each DT gets 2.

I think that shooting for 8-10% of all passing plays to end up as sacks isn't unreasonable at all. Obviously the percentage should be higher on long pass plays, probably in the range of 15%, and lower on short pass plays, probably closer to 5%, but overall 8-10% sounds fair to me.

The other funny thing about all of this, is that Bort said that the DPC has helped DEs.

How has the DPC helped DEs, if Sack numbers are lower than ever? Yeah, they're lower this season, because of them losing all of their Speed/Agility VA points, while OTs kept most of their Blocking.

So where is the evidence of the DPC helping? Just because they can line them up outside of the OTs? Well in theory, yeah it should help. But in reality, it still doesn't. Not much anyway.

Here is a statistic for you, in a competitive league.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=613250

Check out that DE.

10 games. 7 hurries, 2 sacks.

The guy has 100 Speed/90 Agility/9 First Step/7 Tunnel Vision - and still can't get to the QB. He also has 15 in Pass Rusher, which allegedly gives him a 30% boost to Agility and Strength on 3rd and 4th down, but I guess that isn't enough either. You would think that a 30% boost to that high of natural Agility would be noticeable on film, but apparently not. I mean, what is that, around 100 Speed/120 Agility - or something like that? I know it boosts only the natural Agility, but it's plenty high enough. He also has 15 in Track Star, which gives another 4+ points or so, to that 100 Speed.

So if that's not fast enough, what is?

Honestly, how many DEs have 100 Speed/90 Agility? Maybe 1%? So those guys aren't even quick enough to get to the QB, which to me, shows a serious problem.

He also has plenty enough Strength/Vision, which should be obvious from his scouting bars.

So is that what you guys want? A guy with a tremendous build, only getting to the QB 2 times in 10 games? Who is that fun for? Who is going to keep boosting players for that?

I for 1 will not I am (before the AGI build) have always been a DE guy but come on throw alittle back to the guys that know what it takes

Originally posted by herbdawg
Originally posted by joeflex73

Realism: When a 100 AGI/80 SPD DE gets 15 sacks on a 9 SPD/30 AGI OT.

That my friend is BS

Not really. Realistically that's a track athlete against a statue. What would a Div. 1 college player of NFL player do to a OT with that poor of footwork? Look for a vid of Osi Umenyiora against Winston Justice, and you'll get a decent idea. The fact that even against OOP players DE's/DT's can't do much shows a lot.