Warrior General Games

Great idea dare I say epic!
The %'s would all have to be figured out but I think it is definitely do-able.
"Flashy"= boost to whatever the YAC theorem is and a minus to catching
Normal= current settings
Possession= boost to catching and a minus to YAC theorem

Could even have effects to vision or jumping but that might be a little to much.

Bump. Don't really see any reasons not to do this. It's a great idea.

Originally posted by christianhall
I think that Flashy catching style would definetely require a higher catching abiity to perform successfully, and Possession would require lower. Therefore you would have speed receivers who play on Flashy to get the YAC bonus, but drop even more balls, but you could also use it to offset the lower catching ability. So a speedster would play on Possession to increase his catching ability. Obviously same could be done for a possession receiver, with them playing on Possession to make use of their higher catching, or playing on Flashy to try and get the bonus to YAC they don't have due to their speed and agility.

Only problem is, the possession receiver probably wouldn't have the speed and agility necessary to break away from the CB and vice versa with the speedster trying to catch.

YAY this is epic, oh wait that means it will never happen

I like the idea in theory. The question is execution.

"Bonus to YAC" is pretty ambigious, since YAC his highly determined by where the receiver catches the ball, and how the defender is defending.

Is the idea basically just

+ acceleration, - catch

vs.

- acceleration, + catch

?

I would probably need to ramp up drops somewhat to make the +catch end of the scale worthwhile if that's the case.

I'm not sure how the coding would work, but another major factor in YAC vs catch is whether the receiver is trying to be in front of or behind the CB. So perhaps in addition to +/- catch, you could modify the PD & interception chance of defenders.

Originally posted by Bort
I like the idea in theory. The question is execution.

"Bonus to YAC" is pretty ambigious, since YAC his highly determined by where the receiver catches the ball, and how the defender is defending.

Is the idea basically just

+ acceleration, - catch

vs.

- acceleration, + catch

?

I would probably need to ramp up drops somewhat to make the +catch end of the scale worthwhile if that's the case.

In essence, that would be the case. But the main thing, I feel, would be that the -catching modifier would have to be pretty big with the acceleration boost larger. The thing I want to see, is receivers really pickig where they're going to run with the ball, BEFORE they've caught it. Maybe start calculating their path before the ball is caught, and have a percentage hit on the catching roll.

Originally posted by Bort
I like the idea in theory. The question is execution.

"Bonus to YAC" is pretty ambigious, since YAC his highly determined by where the receiver catches the ball, and how the defender is defending.

Is the idea basically just

+ acceleration, - catch

vs.

- acceleration, + catch

?

I would probably need to ramp up drops somewhat to make the +catch end of the scale worthwhile if that's the case.

Tis how I think of it.

Okay, this is how I see it playing out IF it gets implemented.

FLASHY
-Receiver runs route normally
-Ball gets thrown to receiver
-While ball is in the air, the receiver will begin to look down field and calculate his path to run, hopefully avoiding any nearby defenders.

This is costly because:
----The receiver may not catch the ball
----The receiver is more likely to cough up the ball when being hit directly after the catch
----High speed, agility, and vision necessary to make work

This is beneficial because:
----The receiver already knows where he will run before he has the ball
----Receivers can gain a jump on defenders in the area



POSSESSION
-Receiver runs route normally
-Ball is thrown to receiver
-While ball is in the air, the receiver will begin to adjust his route so that he is in the best possible angle to catch the ball.
--Possibly have the receiver's catch roll happen before the CB's pass deflection roll.

This is costly because:
----Receivers won't gain any extra yards after the catch
----Receivers with low catching ability will not be able to use it to the full extent

This is beneficial because:
----Receivers will be almost guaranteed (maybe not that high) to catch the ball one on one
-------This of course is reduced in traffic and they will be almost guaranteed to be stopped after catching it.
----Receivers will be able to focus on the ball and not the field.



Changes that will most likely need to happen in the game:
-Have drops increased a bit on normal setting
-Have receivers' catch rolls occur before CBs' deflection rolls (possession tactic ONLY)
----This does seem a bit far fetched to me as far as the logic is concerned, but it could really make this tactic work.
----CB deflection rolls only occur if ball is dropped, then INT roll (however that works)
-Increase the importance of vision in route running (not sure where it's at now, Bort would have to decide this, of course)
-Have receivers calculate route BEFORE catching the ball


I think that's how I would like to see this thing work. I'd love to hear Bort's thoughts on this and anything else he'd like to see answered.

Originally posted by joeami
Okay, this is how I see it playing out IF it gets implemented.

FLASHY
-Receiver runs route normally
-Ball gets thrown to receiver
-While ball is in the air, the receiver will begin to look down field and calculate his path to run, hopefully avoiding any nearby defenders.

This is costly because:
----The receiver may not catch the ball
----The receiver is more likely to cough up the ball when being hit directly after the catch
----High speed, agility, and vision necessary to make work

This is beneficial because:
----The receiver already knows where he will run before he has the ball
----Receivers can gain a jump on defenders in the area



POSSESSION
-Receiver runs route normally
-Ball is thrown to receiver
-While ball is in the air, the receiver will begin to adjust his route so that he is in the best possible angle to catch the ball.
--Possibly have the receiver's catch roll happen before the CB's pass deflection roll.

This is costly because:
----Receivers won't gain any extra yards after the catch
----Receivers with low catching ability will not be able to use it to the full extent

This is beneficial because:
----Receivers will be almost guaranteed (maybe not that high) to catch the ball one on one
-------This of course is reduced in traffic and they will be almost guaranteed to be stopped after catching it.
----Receivers will be able to focus on the ball and not the field.



Changes that will most likely need to happen in the game:
-Have drops increased a bit on normal setting
-Have receivers' catch rolls occur before CBs' deflection rolls (possession tactic ONLY)
----This does seem a bit far fetched to me as far as the logic is concerned, but it could really make this tactic work.
----CB deflection rolls only occur if ball is dropped, then INT roll (however that works)
-Increase the importance of vision in route running (not sure where it's at now, Bort would have to decide this, of course)
-Have receivers calculate route BEFORE catching the ball


I think that's how I would like to see this thing work. I'd love to hear Bort's thoughts on this and anything else he'd like to see answered.

I still don't like the name "Flashy" that's really not what it is. I like the suggestion but the name doesn't seem to fit what's going on.

Catch and Run

Look the Ball In

seem to be a little more fitting.

Also Possession receivers should still be able to get YAC. Look at many TEs they will still get YAC even though they are Possession receivers.

Also I think Possession Receivers should be more vulnerable to having a big hit. Many times when the receiver is looking the ball in he will get absolutely tattooed without knowing what is coming.

-The Possession setting would be exploited as well, as most WR are in one on one v.s. CBs. That means set all your WR to possession and just move the ball downfield piece by piece. There has to be checks and balances, that make them riskier than playing on normal, while also having a lot more upside than normal.

...sounds like somebody is playing too much madden lol...I like the idea but have a slightly different twist. Why aren't more position based tactics though up..enough to make play type exclusive. One agent might set up his WR to resemble a "flashy" mode of play while another agent might set his WR's tactics to resemble a "low risk low reward" type of play. I say this because I thik flashy, possession is too general. At the end of the day, I dont think a D-League lv 7 WR should be able to make a flashy play...especially if speed and agi aren't caped with a reasonable amount of points invested in jumping and catching

I need to stop with the ... thing... ... ...good thing I don't do it while I'm witting analytical reports and such in school...two years to go b4 grad school <.>

MY EXAMPLE FOR WR's

1) ADD a Expectation Bar (Name should be changed form Expectation to something else)
This bar would have reception on one end and YAC at the other. You would be able to move this bad around just like a HB can choose their running style. I guess this would compliment a skill tree...flashy WR are more likely to go for one handed, jumping or diving catches while staying in motion or on the move while possession WR's only resort to those "flashy" moves when needed. Instead they rely on the bread and butter, making two handed catches, even when the ball is tipped or CB's are jumping on there backs.

2) Running style...keep it as is

3) Mentality!!! Have some type of bar that measures how much an agent would like for his WR to fight for the first down or the highlight reel. Agents who weigh more toward the first down will see less WR's running out of bounds or coward towards the sideline. On the other hand, agents who go 100% for highlights will see there player catch the ball at 1 yard from the first down marker but step back to three or four yards just to create some separation and a chance for a big move resulting in a chance for a big play.

These tactics would ultimately piggyback off of your stats. This would eliminate the superman effect of players with horrible builds busting off 100 yard runs when they should have been caught in the end zone. Unfortionately, I am horrible with scripts even though i have mean html skills lol so I cant set anything up besides ideas.
AT THE END OF THE DAY...the combination of these tactics would lead to a unique playing experience. Every WR well not have the same tendencies and agents get to have more say in what there players do opposed to how they do them!

Originally posted by JDaniels127
Originally posted by joeami

Okay, this is how I see it playing out IF it gets implemented.

FLASHY
-Receiver runs route normally
-Ball gets thrown to receiver
-While ball is in the air, the receiver will begin to look down field and calculate his path to run, hopefully avoiding any nearby defenders.

This is costly because:
----The receiver may not catch the ball
----The receiver is more likely to cough up the ball when being hit directly after the catch
----High speed, agility, and vision necessary to make work

This is beneficial because:
----The receiver already knows where he will run before he has the ball
----Receivers can gain a jump on defenders in the area



POSSESSION
-Receiver runs route normally
-Ball is thrown to receiver
-While ball is in the air, the receiver will begin to adjust his route so that he is in the best possible angle to catch the ball.
--Possibly have the receiver's catch roll happen before the CB's pass deflection roll.

This is costly because:
----Receivers won't gain any extra yards after the catch
----Receivers with low catching ability will not be able to use it to the full extent

This is beneficial because:
----Receivers will be almost guaranteed (maybe not that high) to catch the ball one on one
-------This of course is reduced in traffic and they will be almost guaranteed to be stopped after catching it.
----Receivers will be able to focus on the ball and not the field.



Changes that will most likely need to happen in the game:
-Have drops increased a bit on normal setting
-Have receivers' catch rolls occur before CBs' deflection rolls (possession tactic ONLY)
----This does seem a bit far fetched to me as far as the logic is concerned, but it could really make this tactic work.
----CB deflection rolls only occur if ball is dropped, then INT roll (however that works)
-Increase the importance of vision in route running (not sure where it's at now, Bort would have to decide this, of course)
-Have receivers calculate route BEFORE catching the ball


I think that's how I would like to see this thing work. I'd love to hear Bort's thoughts on this and anything else he'd like to see answered.

I still don't like the name "Flashy" that's really not what it is. I like the suggestion but the name doesn't seem to fit what's going on.

Catch and Run

Look the Ball In

seem to be a little more fitting.

Also Possession receivers should still be able to get YAC. Look at many TEs they will still get YAC even though they are Possession receivers.

Also I think Possession Receivers should be more vulnerable to having a big hit. Many times when the receiver is looking the ball in he will get absolutely tattooed without knowing what is coming.

-The Possession setting would be exploited as well, as most WR are in one on one v.s. CBs. That means set all your WR to possession and just move the ball downfield piece by piece. There has to be checks and balances, that make them riskier than playing on normal, while also having a lot more upside than normal.

The only reason I say flashy is because it's really all I can think of to describe a player that makes cuts through defenders. I understand the thought that flashy might sound like diving catches, one handed catches, etc.

I understand what you mean by the possession receivers needing to have a negative. As an OC, I see how this would be able to be exploited exponentially. It's possible to have the possession receiver be vulnerable to an extreme hit, but the likeness of him to cough the ball up, I BELIEVE, should be less.

A "flashy" receiver would be more prone to fumbling after the catch because he's really not focused on the BALL, he's focused on the field.

I also don't think possession receivers should catch the ball 100% of the time, but we could probably have it where it's at now. There are still going to be drops, but as you move the slider farther down the scale, you'll have more drops.

Originally posted by MoBanks
...sounds like somebody is playing too much madden lol...I like the idea but have a slightly different twist. Why aren't more position based tactics though up..enough to make play type exclusive. One agent might set up his WR to resemble a "flashy" mode of play while another agent might set his WR's tactics to resemble a "low risk low reward" type of play. I say this because I thik flashy, possession is too general. At the end of the day, I dont think a D-League lv 7 WR should be able to make a flashy play...especially if speed and agi aren't caped with a reasonable amount of points invested in jumping and catching

I need to stop with the ... thing... ... ...good thing I don't do it while I'm witting analytical reports and such in school...two years to go b4 grad school <.>

MY EXAMPLE FOR WR's

1) ADD a Expectation Bar (Name should be changed form Expectation to something else)
This bar would have reception on one end and YAC at the other. You would be able to move this bad around just like a HB can choose their running style. I guess this would compliment a skill tree...flashy WR are more likely to go for one handed, jumping or diving catches while staying in motion or on the move while possession WR's only resort to those "flashy" moves when needed. Instead they rely on the bread and butter, making two handed catches, even when the ball is tipped or CB's are jumping on there backs.

2) Running style...keep it as is

3) Mentality!!! Have some type of bar that measures how much an agent would like for his WR to fight for the first down or the highlight reel. Agents who weigh more toward the first down will see less WR's running out of bounds or coward towards the sideline. On the other hand, agents who go 100% for highlights will see there player catch the ball at 1 yard from the first down marker but step back to three or four yards just to create some separation and a chance for a big move resulting in a chance for a big play.

These tactics would ultimately piggyback off of your stats. This would eliminate the superman effect of players with horrible builds busting off 100 yard runs when they should have been caught in the end zone. Unfortionately, I am horrible with scripts even though i have mean html skills lol so I cant set anything up besides ideas.
AT THE END OF THE DAY...the combination of these tactics would lead to a unique playing experience. Every WR well not have the same tendencies and agents get to have more say in what there players do opposed to how they do them!

Not much to comment on in here that won't sound negative other than the mention of the D-league player. A D-leaguer is going to much less likely to be able to pull off a long run after a catch, just as much as he is less likely to catch the ball 70-80% of the time. You see it in real life with pee wee football, high school, etc. These tactics would be affected by your skills and how great they are.

A possession receiver with 80 catching is going to really benefit from being on the possession side because he'll be catching balls left and right.

A flashy receiver with speed and agility in the 70s and vision in the 50-60s is going to benefit from the flashy side because he'll be able to use his speed and agility to the greatest extent.

To sum it all up, flashy affects route calculation and possession has to deal with the catching of the ball.

Flashy:
1.Calculate Route (Automatic)
2. Catch ball

Possession
1. Catch ball
2. Calculate Route (If the ball is caught)

i said this same exact thing 3 times and noone said yes?

Originally posted by sean5231
i said this same exact thing 3 times and noone said yes?

Then you should give it your full support, no?