Is there any discussion about deep zones really being deep zones?
Forum > Test Server Discussion > Test Server Discussions > Passing Game Mechanics Test Results-Discussion Thread
Enkidu98
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Try some 140 speed dudes. DOn;t need a high catching when you have that mush separation from your coverage.
monsterkill
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must be a pain trying to extract useful conclusions from these games when all the players are using streaky.
darkenrahl_17
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Guys we are running many tests on these passing mechanics. We are using many different combinations of tactics. As stated in the OP this will be ongoing throughout the entire season and we are trying to get a look at every possible tactic with build(exaggerated or not).
I know you guys are trying to be helpful(that's the correct political answer right?), but complaining just for complaining sake isn't doing anyone any good right now. The point of these tests and the large amount that we are continuing to run is to get a feel for many different variables in the passing game.
I know you guys are trying to be helpful(that's the correct political answer right?), but complaining just for complaining sake isn't doing anyone any good right now. The point of these tests and the large amount that we are continuing to run is to get a feel for many different variables in the passing game.
Originally posted by darkenrahl_17
Guys we are running many tests on these passing mechanics. We are using many different combinations of tactics. As stated in the OP this will be ongoing throughout the entire season and we are trying to get a look at every possible tactic with build(exaggerated or not).
I know you guys are trying to be helpful(that's the correct political answer right?), but complaining just for complaining sake isn't doing anyone any good right now. The point of these tests and the large amount that we are continuing to run is to get a feel for many different variables in the passing game.
Most people here just try to say "we don't see any testing methodology therefore these tests will be junk in junk out". It is a valid point and not just a random complaint.
QA is not easy, and is something GLB has a tendency to do poor at.
Guys we are running many tests on these passing mechanics. We are using many different combinations of tactics. As stated in the OP this will be ongoing throughout the entire season and we are trying to get a look at every possible tactic with build(exaggerated or not).
I know you guys are trying to be helpful(that's the correct political answer right?), but complaining just for complaining sake isn't doing anyone any good right now. The point of these tests and the large amount that we are continuing to run is to get a feel for many different variables in the passing game.
Most people here just try to say "we don't see any testing methodology therefore these tests will be junk in junk out". It is a valid point and not just a random complaint.
QA is not easy, and is something GLB has a tendency to do poor at.
Edited by tragula on Oct 11, 2010 15:44:13
Edited by tragula on Oct 11, 2010 15:43:53
risico
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Originally posted by darkenrahl_17
Guys we are running many tests on these passing mechanics. We are using many different combinations of tactics. As stated in the OP this will be ongoing throughout the entire season and we are trying to get a look at every possible tactic with build(exaggerated or not).
I know you guys are trying to be helpful(that's the correct political answer right?), but complaining just for complaining sake isn't doing anyone any good right now. The point of these tests and the large amount that we are continuing to run is to get a feel for many different variables in the passing game.
The entire point we're trying to make here is that you have to do the tests with some degree of control. If you don't, it's really hard to draw conclusions from them.
I understand that you guys have a lot of stuff to test, but testing multiple related things at once is just wasting your own time. Figure out how one change works and then move on to another. The more of the puzzle you can figure out in a controlled test, the more you'll be able to balance by the time the changes hit the sim.
If you can't figure everything out by testing one thing at a time, then Bort needs to hire more testers. But trying to do it all at once is just spinning your wheels.
Guys we are running many tests on these passing mechanics. We are using many different combinations of tactics. As stated in the OP this will be ongoing throughout the entire season and we are trying to get a look at every possible tactic with build(exaggerated or not).
I know you guys are trying to be helpful(that's the correct political answer right?), but complaining just for complaining sake isn't doing anyone any good right now. The point of these tests and the large amount that we are continuing to run is to get a feel for many different variables in the passing game.
The entire point we're trying to make here is that you have to do the tests with some degree of control. If you don't, it's really hard to draw conclusions from them.
I understand that you guys have a lot of stuff to test, but testing multiple related things at once is just wasting your own time. Figure out how one change works and then move on to another. The more of the puzzle you can figure out in a controlled test, the more you'll be able to balance by the time the changes hit the sim.
If you can't figure everything out by testing one thing at a time, then Bort needs to hire more testers. But trying to do it all at once is just spinning your wheels.
Joebarber
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Originally posted by Enkidu98
Try some 140 speed dudes. DOn;t need a high catching when you have that mush separation from your coverage.
140 speed doesn't get you much separation...just a heads up
Try some 140 speed dudes. DOn;t need a high catching when you have that mush separation from your coverage.
140 speed doesn't get you much separation...just a heads up
Joebarber
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Originally posted by Enkidu98
Definitely something needs to be done and I know you are aware of this, on how little catching means to the equation presently. Just like in so many other interactions, the 'Skills' portion actually means very little and these should be most important.
Catching for WR's.
Throwing for QB's.
Blocking for Linemen (Both types)
Tackling for Secondary
Carrying for Backs
Etc.
These attributes should mean MUCH more than they presently do.
No...just no
for instance WRs
Every WR in the NFL can catch to a certain degree (let's say in GLB terms 61-80). What separates them is their speed, agility, jumping, and ability to get open.
Randy Moss isn't phenomenal at catching the ball...what made him special is being 6'4" running a 4.3 with a 45" vertical. That gave him the ability to leap over DBs and make the catch.
Everyone loves to use Jerry Rice as the "catching WR" sure he had great hands, but his route running and ability to find holes in the coverage made him special not his hands.
Tackling for DBs? WTF...did you ever see Deion Sanders try to tackle?
Definitely something needs to be done and I know you are aware of this, on how little catching means to the equation presently. Just like in so many other interactions, the 'Skills' portion actually means very little and these should be most important.
Catching for WR's.
Throwing for QB's.
Blocking for Linemen (Both types)
Tackling for Secondary
Carrying for Backs
Etc.
These attributes should mean MUCH more than they presently do.
No...just no
for instance WRs
Every WR in the NFL can catch to a certain degree (let's say in GLB terms 61-80). What separates them is their speed, agility, jumping, and ability to get open.
Randy Moss isn't phenomenal at catching the ball...what made him special is being 6'4" running a 4.3 with a 45" vertical. That gave him the ability to leap over DBs and make the catch.
Everyone loves to use Jerry Rice as the "catching WR" sure he had great hands, but his route running and ability to find holes in the coverage made him special not his hands.
Tackling for DBs? WTF...did you ever see Deion Sanders try to tackle?
Originally posted by Joebarber
No...just no
for instance WRs
Every WR in the NFL can catch to a certain degree (let's say in GLB terms 61-80). What separates them is their speed, agility, jumping, and ability to get open.
Randy Moss isn't phenomenal at catching the ball...what made him special is being 6'4" running a 4.3 with a 45" vertical. That gave him the ability to leap over DBs and make the catch.
Everyone loves to use Jerry Rice as the "catching WR" sure he had great hands, but his route running and ability to find holes in the coverage made him special not his hands.
Tackling for DBs? WTF...did you ever see Deion Sanders try to tackle?
You are missing the points, Catching Tackling, Speed are just numbers getting into Borts formulas. They have nothing to do with real life and do not represent anything in real life. Enkidu is hoping for a more balanced sim where different kind of dots can operate, dismantle the current arm race for more speed / strength / throw / agility.
by the way, I don't really think that is a reachable goal.
No...just no
for instance WRs
Every WR in the NFL can catch to a certain degree (let's say in GLB terms 61-80). What separates them is their speed, agility, jumping, and ability to get open.
Randy Moss isn't phenomenal at catching the ball...what made him special is being 6'4" running a 4.3 with a 45" vertical. That gave him the ability to leap over DBs and make the catch.
Everyone loves to use Jerry Rice as the "catching WR" sure he had great hands, but his route running and ability to find holes in the coverage made him special not his hands.
Tackling for DBs? WTF...did you ever see Deion Sanders try to tackle?
You are missing the points, Catching Tackling, Speed are just numbers getting into Borts formulas. They have nothing to do with real life and do not represent anything in real life. Enkidu is hoping for a more balanced sim where different kind of dots can operate, dismantle the current arm race for more speed / strength / throw / agility.
by the way, I don't really think that is a reachable goal.
Edited by tragula on Oct 12, 2010 09:17:08
Joebarber
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Originally posted by tragula
Originally posted by Joebarber
No...just no
for instance WRs
Every WR in the NFL can catch to a certain degree (let's say in GLB terms 61-80). What separates them is their speed, agility, jumping, and ability to get open.
Randy Moss isn't phenomenal at catching the ball...what made him special is being 6'4" running a 4.3 with a 45" vertical. That gave him the ability to leap over DBs and make the catch.
Everyone loves to use Jerry Rice as the "catching WR" sure he had great hands, but his route running and ability to find holes in the coverage made him special not his hands.
Tackling for DBs? WTF...did you ever see Deion Sanders try to tackle?
You are missing the points, Catching Tackling, Speed are just numbers getting into Borts formulas. They have nothing to do with real life and do not represent anything in real life. Enkidu is hoping for a more balanced sim where different kind of dots can operate, dismantle the current arm race for more speed / strength / throw / agility.
by the way, I don't really think that is a reachable goal.
No I disagree with his points that they should be more important.
Throwing for QBs? Already the most important
Blocking for OL? It's right behind strength...what more do you want?
Catching for WR? It's where it needs to be and in some cases due to VAs is already overpowered...IE triple coverage catches are the norm.
Carrying for RBs? Most good RBs already have tons of carrying, I know mine have over 80
Tackling for DBs? maybe, but it's not very reflective of real life...in addition most DBs already struggle to keep up with WRs in the attribute race, so why make it even harder?
the more things you require people to have in their builds the more cookie cutter they will get because it leaves less room for experimentation. I know there are people out there that want cookie cutter because they frankly aren't very good at building dots.
Originally posted by Joebarber
No...just no
for instance WRs
Every WR in the NFL can catch to a certain degree (let's say in GLB terms 61-80). What separates them is their speed, agility, jumping, and ability to get open.
Randy Moss isn't phenomenal at catching the ball...what made him special is being 6'4" running a 4.3 with a 45" vertical. That gave him the ability to leap over DBs and make the catch.
Everyone loves to use Jerry Rice as the "catching WR" sure he had great hands, but his route running and ability to find holes in the coverage made him special not his hands.
Tackling for DBs? WTF...did you ever see Deion Sanders try to tackle?
You are missing the points, Catching Tackling, Speed are just numbers getting into Borts formulas. They have nothing to do with real life and do not represent anything in real life. Enkidu is hoping for a more balanced sim where different kind of dots can operate, dismantle the current arm race for more speed / strength / throw / agility.
by the way, I don't really think that is a reachable goal.
No I disagree with his points that they should be more important.
Throwing for QBs? Already the most important
Blocking for OL? It's right behind strength...what more do you want?
Catching for WR? It's where it needs to be and in some cases due to VAs is already overpowered...IE triple coverage catches are the norm.
Carrying for RBs? Most good RBs already have tons of carrying, I know mine have over 80
Tackling for DBs? maybe, but it's not very reflective of real life...in addition most DBs already struggle to keep up with WRs in the attribute race, so why make it even harder?
the more things you require people to have in their builds the more cookie cutter they will get because it leaves less room for experimentation. I know there are people out there that want cookie cutter because they frankly aren't very good at building dots.
Mightyhalo
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Originally posted by Joebarber
the more things you require people to have in their builds the more cookie cutter they will get because it leaves less room for experimentation. I know there are people out there that want cookie cutter because they frankly aren't very good at building dots.
No place for that garbage here.
the more things you require people to have in their builds the more cookie cutter they will get because it leaves less room for experimentation. I know there are people out there that want cookie cutter because they frankly aren't very good at building dots.
No place for that garbage here.Joebarber
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Originally posted by Mightyhalo
Originally posted by Joebarber
the more things you require people to have in their builds the more cookie cutter they will get because it leaves less room for experimentation. I know there are people out there that want cookie cutter because they frankly aren't very good at building dots.
No place for that garbage here.
I apologize if that offended you...please discuss the topic
Originally posted by Joebarber
the more things you require people to have in their builds the more cookie cutter they will get because it leaves less room for experimentation. I know there are people out there that want cookie cutter because they frankly aren't very good at building dots.
No place for that garbage here.I apologize if that offended you...please discuss the topic
Mightyhalo
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Originally posted by Joebarber
I apologize if that offended you...please discuss the topic
There is no reason for it here. You can leave that type of garbage elsewhere. Discuss the passing changes, or stay out.
I apologize if that offended you...please discuss the topic
There is no reason for it here. You can leave that type of garbage elsewhere. Discuss the passing changes, or stay out.
Mightyhalo
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Originally posted by Mightyhalo
I guess it would help if you provided the info on the builds with this link as well so we don't have to search for it.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0AtlUmq0lDzXadEp3bnBpNkRLRDBjOWNpMm1EYkRDdmc&hl=en&output=html
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game_summaries/3058.txt
I'm not sure what that test is trying to prove. With the speed WR builds you have the QB set for 50 route distance, but neutral on bullet, while favoring long passes.
For the high catching team, you have it set to -50 for open man and -50 to the bullet side, no favor. I don't think you can pull anything from this test game tbh.
I'm not sure the builds are helping run quality tests either. They are all over the map. One team has a QB with 120 passing, while team #2 has a QB with only 90 throwing. For a proper test isolating catching in these test games, the builds should be identical down to the SA's with the exception of speed/catching. The QB's should also be identical, then after some games have been run using the format, keep the WR's the same, and change the QB's for each team. Do some tests with deep passers, and some for pocket passers with the same receivers. Then you can run some tests with the tactics adjusted, but you can't have one team with a different set of tactics, since that is what could be skewing the data.
I guess it would help if you provided the info on the builds with this link as well so we don't have to search for it.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0AtlUmq0lDzXadEp3bnBpNkRLRDBjOWNpMm1EYkRDdmc&hl=en&output=html
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game_summaries/3058.txt
I'm not sure what that test is trying to prove. With the speed WR builds you have the QB set for 50 route distance, but neutral on bullet, while favoring long passes.
For the high catching team, you have it set to -50 for open man and -50 to the bullet side, no favor. I don't think you can pull anything from this test game tbh.
I'm not sure the builds are helping run quality tests either. They are all over the map. One team has a QB with 120 passing, while team #2 has a QB with only 90 throwing. For a proper test isolating catching in these test games, the builds should be identical down to the SA's with the exception of speed/catching. The QB's should also be identical, then after some games have been run using the format, keep the WR's the same, and change the QB's for each team. Do some tests with deep passers, and some for pocket passers with the same receivers. Then you can run some tests with the tactics adjusted, but you can't have one team with a different set of tactics, since that is what could be skewing the data.
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