That's the thing - the defense was set to Long Pass.
Forum > Test Server Discussion > Test Server: Worrying About Run Game Ineffectiveness
cosmoxl
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Originally posted by thehazyone
That's the thing - the defense was set to Long Pass.
OK, then that's probably a problem.
That's the thing - the defense was set to Long Pass.
OK, then that's probably a problem.
Nuge20
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Improve WR blocking and allow Gs and other O-Lineman to lead block, they barely do now
PP
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Originally posted by cosmoxl
Originally posted by thehazyone
That's the thing - the defense was set to Long Pass.
OK, then that's probably a problem.
Exactly...I'm all for #s being reasonable. I just don't want to see the run game killed
Originally posted by thehazyone
That's the thing - the defense was set to Long Pass.
OK, then that's probably a problem.
Exactly...I'm all for #s being reasonable. I just don't want to see the run game killed
Adderfist
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http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=680&pbp_id=170182
Check out the blocking on that play. Just another example of the shit WR blocking.
Check out the blocking on that play. Just another example of the shit WR blocking.
Obrret
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Originally posted by Adderfist
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=680&pbp_id=170182
Check out the blocking on that play. Just another example of the shit WR blocking.
I'm not sure that play is so much shit WR blocking as it is the WR picking the lesser of two evils. He chose to block the SS and the CB pounced on the play. If he had chosen to block the CB then the result very well could have been the same. The SS or MLB would have blown right past the TE to make the tackle because the TE would have picked one of them up for his assignment.
Not disagreeing completely, just saying it might not be that.
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=680&pbp_id=170182
Check out the blocking on that play. Just another example of the shit WR blocking.
I'm not sure that play is so much shit WR blocking as it is the WR picking the lesser of two evils. He chose to block the SS and the CB pounced on the play. If he had chosen to block the CB then the result very well could have been the same. The SS or MLB would have blown right past the TE to make the tackle because the TE would have picked one of them up for his assignment.
Not disagreeing completely, just saying it might not be that.
smeberen
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Originally posted by Nuge20
Improve WR blocking and allow Gs and other O-Lineman to lead block, they barely do now
I think this is the key. O-Lineman need to move forward on running plays. As of now they just sit in their space and if someone comes to them they block them. But for running plays they need to push forward, especially if no one is in front of them to block. Then holes open up and LB's get blocked properly.
Improve WR blocking and allow Gs and other O-Lineman to lead block, they barely do now
I think this is the key. O-Lineman need to move forward on running plays. As of now they just sit in their space and if someone comes to them they block them. But for running plays they need to push forward, especially if no one is in front of them to block. Then holes open up and LB's get blocked properly.
Joe Buck
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Are these running test being done with whatever nerfed version of Attribute VA's will be in effect next season?
Because I imagine having 0 WW / 0 Great blocking for the OL and 0 WW for the DL is going to massively change the results.
Because I imagine having 0 WW / 0 Great blocking for the OL and 0 WW for the DL is going to massively change the results.
Ken1
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Originally posted by djhoffman99
Originally posted by PP
Originally posted by Sal Basss
Originally posted by cosmoxl
Originally posted by thehazyone
Originally posted by bluemagus
Yeah that combo back is going to get lit up in any good league. Run your initial test with 2 strong backs and see if they don't average over 3 ypc
The "Typical Power HB" has 110 strength, 70 carrying, 8 lower shoulder, 8 stiff arm, 10 power through, and 8 Dive For Yards.
5-14-2.8
8-17-2.1
12-55-4.6
21-48-2.3
16-46-2.9
19-54-2.8
21-38-1.8
20-65-3.3
Those are "Typical Power HB" numbers in the four test sims I ran since Bort included an increased vision check. That power running back would have run rough shod all over almost any team last season. Totals here? 122 carries for 337 yards or 2.7 ypc.
And really this is all about making all types of running backs viable, not just power backs, but I just wanted to show that even the power backs (in most instances) are struggling as well.
those numbers seen fine to me. what about speed and elusive backs using runs that are more suited toward them?
For that HB, 2.7 ypc seems fine to you?
correction...2.7 ypc for an extremely well built PB seems fine to you? That should be at least in the 3-4 range.
Not necessarily. It depends on how good the defense is, or should depend anyway.
The power back is really good. So if the defense is really good also (and his O-line is also really good and the defense is pass focus, as was being tested) he should be getting somewhat over the real life average of 4 ypc. If the defense was 100% on run focus he should get maybe about what he got. Against a balanced defense with everyone on both sides really good, he should be getting about the real life average of 4 ypc-- but it wasn't even a balanced defense, but rather pass focus.
Originally posted by PP
Originally posted by Sal Basss
Originally posted by cosmoxl
Originally posted by thehazyone
Originally posted by bluemagus
Yeah that combo back is going to get lit up in any good league. Run your initial test with 2 strong backs and see if they don't average over 3 ypc
The "Typical Power HB" has 110 strength, 70 carrying, 8 lower shoulder, 8 stiff arm, 10 power through, and 8 Dive For Yards.
5-14-2.8
8-17-2.1
12-55-4.6
21-48-2.3
16-46-2.9
19-54-2.8
21-38-1.8
20-65-3.3
Those are "Typical Power HB" numbers in the four test sims I ran since Bort included an increased vision check. That power running back would have run rough shod all over almost any team last season. Totals here? 122 carries for 337 yards or 2.7 ypc.
And really this is all about making all types of running backs viable, not just power backs, but I just wanted to show that even the power backs (in most instances) are struggling as well.
those numbers seen fine to me. what about speed and elusive backs using runs that are more suited toward them?
For that HB, 2.7 ypc seems fine to you?
correction...2.7 ypc for an extremely well built PB seems fine to you? That should be at least in the 3-4 range.
Not necessarily. It depends on how good the defense is, or should depend anyway.
The power back is really good. So if the defense is really good also (and his O-line is also really good and the defense is pass focus, as was being tested) he should be getting somewhat over the real life average of 4 ypc. If the defense was 100% on run focus he should get maybe about what he got. Against a balanced defense with everyone on both sides really good, he should be getting about the real life average of 4 ypc-- but it wasn't even a balanced defense, but rather pass focus.
Ken1
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Originally posted by Adderfist
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=680&pbp_id=170182
Check out the blocking on that play. Just another example of the shit WR blocking.
This is true. People whined too much about WR blocking and I think it got over-nerfed. Or more directly, one way or another CB's should be making fewer tackles.
However, it is true that in test server games pitches have been working better than in any GLB season I've seen since around Season 4.
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=680&pbp_id=170182
Check out the blocking on that play. Just another example of the shit WR blocking.
This is true. People whined too much about WR blocking and I think it got over-nerfed. Or more directly, one way or another CB's should be making fewer tackles.
However, it is true that in test server games pitches have been working better than in any GLB season I've seen since around Season 4.
Dacolts
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Originally posted by sbuck143
Are these running test being done with whatever nerfed version of Attribute VA's will be in effect next season?
Because I imagine having 0 WW / 0 Great blocking for the OL and 0 WW for the DL is going to massively change the results.
Nice thought. No sense running a million tests and then change all the inputs to make the tests worthless.
Are these running test being done with whatever nerfed version of Attribute VA's will be in effect next season?
Because I imagine having 0 WW / 0 Great blocking for the OL and 0 WW for the DL is going to massively change the results.
Nice thought. No sense running a million tests and then change all the inputs to make the tests worthless.
odg62
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Originally posted by Nuge20
Improve WR blocking....
Same way defense has to have strength/tack/vis real high to be effective shouldnt WRs need to have blocking/strength real high to be effective....
Originally posted by thehazyone
That's the thing - the defense was set to Long Pass.
dosent that only affect the safties? if the Line and Lbs are making plays then the saftey depth wouldnt really matter
Improve WR blocking....
Same way defense has to have strength/tack/vis real high to be effective shouldnt WRs need to have blocking/strength real high to be effective....
Originally posted by thehazyone
That's the thing - the defense was set to Long Pass.
dosent that only affect the safties? if the Line and Lbs are making plays then the saftey depth wouldnt really matter
Adderfist
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Originally posted by odg62
Originally posted by Nuge20
Improve WR blocking....
Same way defense has to have strength/tack/vis real high to be effective shouldnt WRs need to have blocking/strength real high to be effective....
It doesn't matter about the strength, tackle, vision if the game is flawed and even with 100's in those atts you still can't block.
And on that play the priority is SETTING THE EDGE. If the HB is fast enough when you set the edge that could be a big play. But by peeling off and getting the SS instead of the CB, the CB is free. Because of this that outside runs are fucked.
I almost think it's worth it to just have the WR block right away on the play, or run a route then as they're going to get behind the WR, have the WR engage the block.
Originally posted by Nuge20
Improve WR blocking....
Same way defense has to have strength/tack/vis real high to be effective shouldnt WRs need to have blocking/strength real high to be effective....
It doesn't matter about the strength, tackle, vision if the game is flawed and even with 100's in those atts you still can't block.
And on that play the priority is SETTING THE EDGE. If the HB is fast enough when you set the edge that could be a big play. But by peeling off and getting the SS instead of the CB, the CB is free. Because of this that outside runs are fucked.
I almost think it's worth it to just have the WR block right away on the play, or run a route then as they're going to get behind the WR, have the WR engage the block.
UCHI_MATA_MASTER
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the averages for the NFL in yards per carry are as follows in the following years
Carries 2002 2003 2004 2005
01-50 3.92 3.75 4.01 3.34
51-100 4.34 3.86 4.18 4.15
101-150 3.93 4.26 4.11 3.78
151-200 3.88 3.97 4.17 3.87
201-250 3.94 4.11 4.11 3.97
251-300 4.28 4.48 4.19 4.14
301+ 4.41 4.43 4.36 4.49
Average 4.15 4.18 4.19 4.07
sory can't quite get them to line up
Carries 2002 2003 2004 2005
01-50 3.92 3.75 4.01 3.34
51-100 4.34 3.86 4.18 4.15
101-150 3.93 4.26 4.11 3.78
151-200 3.88 3.97 4.17 3.87
201-250 3.94 4.11 4.11 3.97
251-300 4.28 4.48 4.19 4.14
301+ 4.41 4.43 4.36 4.49
Average 4.15 4.18 4.19 4.07
sory can't quite get them to line up
Last edited Apr 11, 2009 17:27:53
Ken1
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Originally posted by Dacolts
Originally posted by sbuck143
Are these running test being done with whatever nerfed version of Attribute VA's will be in effect next season?
Because I imagine having 0 WW / 0 Great blocking for the OL and 0 WW for the DL is going to massively change the results.
Nice thought. No sense running a million tests and then change all the inputs to make the tests worthless.
I'd agree, but Bort hasn't uploaded changed VA's (many existing non-attribute VA's are likely to be buffed, and a few new ones added) to the test server yet, so...nothing we can do about that.
However, many of them are being run with clones of a generic team with players that have no VA's...so that's something.
Originally posted by sbuck143
Are these running test being done with whatever nerfed version of Attribute VA's will be in effect next season?
Because I imagine having 0 WW / 0 Great blocking for the OL and 0 WW for the DL is going to massively change the results.
Nice thought. No sense running a million tests and then change all the inputs to make the tests worthless.
I'd agree, but Bort hasn't uploaded changed VA's (many existing non-attribute VA's are likely to be buffed, and a few new ones added) to the test server yet, so...nothing we can do about that.
However, many of them are being run with clones of a generic team with players that have no VA's...so that's something.
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