Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Novus

I happen to think the best WR and the best offense in Pro 2 should perform better than 1 catch on 5 targets for the WR, and 27% completion and only 17 points for the team in the playoffs.


This game did not go well. Some of it is variance. Some of it is game planning. This obviously does not invalidate the rest of the dot nor teams season. And as stated, 17 points scored vs OPT was one of the 8 highest scores allowed this season (coulda been 20 without a tilty INT on the 20 yard line and tied for 3rd, qq).

It's just weird for me as someone who has had like 5x #1 WL offenses since I returned s93, to get criticism as an OC from someone most known for having a 100% rushing offense that didn't work.

In Novus defense, he won WL gold as an OC assistant with Asau next to snakes22. I remember this run because his contributions resulted in us getting burned by this fucked up speedWR at WR3 which was a juke/fake specimen and killed us with over 200 yards.

So yes, even with him running rushing offenses on his team, i value novus opinion since he worked with a speedWR freak at WR3 for Asau back in the day.

All those fcked up memories with Trips WR Clearout coming up again.

Nevertheless, the WR is still dope

I never started a thread just to crown myself the #1 anything. You did. But the results on the field don't match your self-glossing.

You've kept me entertained during a boring afternoon at work, though, so I'll give you the champion's belt for that.

Originally posted by Novus
I never started a thread just to crown myself the #1 anything. You did. But the results on the field don't match your self-glossing.

The Darth Plag still had in 14 competitive regular season pro games:
Targ/Catch/Yds/TD = 113/42/1347/10

OPT's top WR had regular season (again excluding the Stags games).
https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/player_game_log.pl?player_id=4842566

41-4-1 = 36 targets
30-3-1 = 26 catches
452-80-7= 365 yards
8-2-0 = 6 TDs

So your argument is that this OPT WR who got 26 yards/game is the best WR in GLB (or at least better than the WR in the OP)? Because that dot played for OPT? Sigh...

And if not, give me a link to a Pro WR whom you think is better / the best in GLB?

Originally posted by Tomcic
In Novus defense, he won WL gold as an OC assistant with Asau next to snakes22. I remember this run because his contributions resulted in us getting burned by this fucked up speedWR at WR3 which was a juke/fake specimen and killed us with over 200 yards.

So yes, even with him running rushing offenses on his team, i value novus opinion since he worked with a speedWR freak at WR3 for Asau back in the day.

All those fcked up memories with Trips WR Clearout coming up again.

Nevertheless, the WR is still dope

I guarantee, that was mostly snakes22. I helped, but I only helped.

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
And if not, give me a link to a Pro WR whom you think is better / the best in GLB?

Again, I'm not the one who started a brag thread crowning myself #1 in anything. You are. The burden of proof is on you, and I don't think you've met it.

Not saying your WR sucks or that you're a terrible OC. But you ain't #1 either.

If I could derail this thread back to somewhere remotely close to the original topic for a sec, Wise, what was the highest cap you were still spending SP on Speed, to get to 112? 8-cap, 9-cap, or even higher? Just curious...

Originally posted by Novus
Again, I'm not the one who started a brag thread crowning myself #1 in anything. You are. The burden of proof is on you, and I don't think you've met it.

Not saying your WR sucks or that you're a terrible OC. But you ain't #1 either.

Steps that happened...
1. I looked at all Pro WR's and figured Plag is clearly and objectively the best one

2. I made this thread, and opened his build to help people as well.

3. You told me me the OPT receivers are better.

4. I said lolwut, top OPT WR has 26 yards/game.

5. You say this that I need to "prove" he's the best, which I guess leading pro in yards, tds, and yards/target somehow doesn't do for you?

As far as OC'ing, I didn't claim to be the #1 OC, I just stated factually that Sno had the #1 scoring offense in Pro2 and TSW had the #2 scoring offense in Pro1. Clearly I'm not not the #1 OC in this game, but I am surely in the top4 with a nice argument for top3. Would need some WL gold to be any higher of course.

Originally posted by slughead42
If I could derail this thread back to somewhere remotely close to the original topic for a sec, Wise, what was the highest cap you were still spending SP on Speed, to get to 112? 8-cap, 9-cap, or even higher? Just curious...

Good question.

To hit 112 base (170 with eq) you need to exclusively 5* enhance train the attribute while 20-capping with SP (20-cap is the 100-101 attribute). I then switched to multi training 4 other attributes.

Do you think less first step and more juke would’ve been better? Maybe a juke at an early part of the route to create initial separation then so much speed that the cb can’t come close to making a deflection?

Originally posted by ProfessionalKop
Do you think less first step and more juke would’ve been better? Maybe a juke at an early part of the route to create initial separation then so much speed that the cb can’t come close to making a deflection?

I don't believe so. They weren't on the same team last season, but in AAA on a VERY similar WR with the main exception being he has 10 First Step / 10 Juke, I didn't see Juke doing a ton of heavy lifting.

https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=21954&pbp_id=624789 is a catch fake example from said WR, feel free to check his other replays if you are so inclined.

I like it, guys are too comfy with building the same exact dots over and over and over for like the past decade in a half almost?

Nothing wrong with new builds that can obviously impact the game.

Now as far as me personally I wanna know, do you think it would at all be possible to get more agi/juke? without completely destroying the rest of the build? What would be some things I'd be able to sacrifice? Thinking about trying to replicate this build.

Also what's your thought process behind SH and RR? I thought penalty SA's really hurt builds? What's your thought process there?

As someone who lives to make stuff nobody else has... crazy ideas and all that... I can admire the spirit here but must ask Wise the following;

If I was an OC, I would think the only way to truly utilize him would be to create passing packages where either the WR1 routes, or WR2 routes, were all 'go routes'. A player built purely for speed like that would best seem suited for bombs where he can actually get separation from his defender. With a lack of significant periphery skills to help him on any hard breaking routes, do you see him in a similar light?

If I was a DC, I would counter this by always having a safety over the top and do the ZZ blitz so the QB had to throw earlier, thereby negating his speed advantage. Have you seen defenses do this against you?

Lastly, for the kind of deep throws you built this laddie for, you need an equally built QB with around 170 throwing (with EQ), 100 strength, and 100 vision. Do you think the same and, if not, why? IMHO, throws where the ball travels over 30 yards (Bort's 'beyond deep' threshold) get the most severe accuracy penalties the farther the ball files and I see plenty of INT's where the ball comes up short and the trailing safety/cb gets an easy pick.

Originally posted by 88Spam


Now as far as me personally I wanna know, do you think it would at all be possible to get more agi/juke? without completely destroying the rest of the build? What would be some things I'd be able to sacrifice? Thinking about trying to replicate this build.

Also what's your thought process behind SH and RR? I thought penalty SA's really hurt builds? What's your thought process there?

Good question. Lets step back to assumptions to talk about it.

Assumption #1: Penalty/Bonus SA's have between a 20% and 40% boost/penalty. This is reasonable, though honestly the 40% number feels lolz-high and should have a pretty huge impact we would have seen. Assumption was always 20% to 30% before catch22 got fired and made a weird flame website and "leaked" 40%, which Bort refuted. Imho no chance Bort gave a glorified customer service rep the actual formulas behind the code, but I digress. In the case of being fair, lets assume 30% penalty.

Assumption #2: Route run is worth at least 0.5 spd and 0.5 agi per point. This would mean 10 pts = 5 spd & 5 agility. Keep in mind, when these SA's were designed, Bort had no idea what slowbuilding and min/max power-capping would happen. The thought that route run is worth LESS per point, means those L1 dots in season 1 that put a point in route run would have been lighting their SP's on fire, which isn't the point of SA's. There are some speed script analysis which support this assumption as well, but for now I think we are reasonably safe assuming 10 route run = 5 spd + 5 agi when running a route.

So... If assumption #1 and #2 are ~correct...

10 route run = 5 spd 5 agi for 30 SP before penalty.
10 route run = 3.5 spd / 3.5 agi for 30 SP after penalty.

Even if we are only 8-capping spd/agi (which this dot is 20-capping, and most dots like 8-cap) we are talking about 7 combined penalty spd+agi worth 56 SP, at the cost of 30 SP.

This is also the reason why is basically NEVER a bad idea to spend 2-4 pts in flat bonus SA's like route run, sticky hands, run block, pass block, etc. Since you are bringing that attribute to a HIGH cap, the SA would have to be insanely worthless to not be worth the first few points. Hence the 2 sticky hands for 2 SP.

Fwiw we know for a FACT that a WR with 2 less speed but 10 penalty route run is noticeably faster on the speedscript. The 0.5 spd/agi per point might be a tad conservative.

Theo, why do you think fast players can get vertical separation but not horizonal separation?

The top QB in Pro2 that was throwing to this dot was a pocket passer arch and didn't have close to 100 strength.