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Forum > Suggestions > Epic Suggestions > Add a containment setting for OLB and S in the DPC
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Dr. E
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Originally posted by Rage Kinard
What evidence to the contrary?

http://goallineblitz.com/game/league.pl?league_id=43 - show me all the close games that end in shutouts. Where are the 10-0 and 13-0 games?

http://goallineblitz.com/game/league.pl?league_id=37&conference_id=0 - I found 2 games out of 144 that were shutouts and the winning team scored less than 30 pts.


Let's not forget that the ALG and VA systems in this game work to make high level games much different from low level games. It's not that only good DCs exist at upper levels or only good DCs exist at lower levels. It is a matter of the game being very different at those levels.

For instance, look at the importance of DL having better VAs than OL. At lower levels, the pancake to reverse pancake ratios are often even for good OL. For very good ones, they typically have more pancakes than reverse pancakes. However, as you get up in levels, and DL are able to add Bull Rusher and Heavyweight they numbers quickly start moving toward the DL side, until the upper levels where OL get almost no pancakes (except LOTs) but are reverse pancaked frequently.

The same holds true with some of the offensive players and their builds that don't become over powered until they are able to start adding SAs onto their builds and stacking VAs that work with that build. 15 slippery doesn't do much for a back by itself. 15 slippery, +15 quick feet, +10 spin, +10 juke does though.

Not to mention that many of the more effective high end builds are very ineffective at lower levels because of the build process and VA requirements needed to get there (like the spin receiver).

Because the game is so different at upper levels and lower levels, you can't balance it for both ends. Therefore the game needs to be balanced for end game, since that is what everyone is building towards, and where dots spend 3-4 seasons rather than 1 season at a given level.


I disagree with this statement. My own team has played at all levels except the WL and I've found no difference in the play of OCs and DCs. I have played OC's and DC's who play at the WL level and I've found that no matter what level of play I'm at, some are good, some aren't. It's true Dots get better as they grow, but a good Dot is better than a bad Dot no matter the league and will effect play. Given some don't try to win at the lower levels because they find it too difficult to build a superior Dot and win at the same time.

As for that last statement of yours I bolded, I can't speak on that subject with any concrete knowledge. Although I've watched some WL games and believe the OC's & DCs to be no different at any given level of the game, (although there may be fewer poor ones at WL), I've not enough experience to really know the effect of a full grown Dot.

So, if you are asking for some fix just for the WL, my points may or may not be valid. As for the rest of the game. I shut out lots of teams that are quality and my Dots were not the best. I had some very poor builds. So the ability to do as you want is there.
 
Rage Kinard
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Originally posted by Dr. E


So, if you are asking for some fix just for the WL, my points may or may not be valid. As for the rest of the game. I shut out lots of teams that are quality and my Dots were not the best. I had some very poor builds. So the ability to do as you want is there.


Not WL - end build. That means for 70+. Not all 70+ dots make WL. That is still the end build point though.

National and Regional Pro see a lot of shutouts now, but only because of the large disparity in talent and coordinating at those levels. Both of those levels are in serious need of reorganization.

Originally posted by Dr. E
It's true Dots get better as they grow, but a good Dot is better than a bad Dot no matter the league and will effect play. Given some don't try to win at the lower levels because they find it too difficult to build a superior Dot and win at the same time.


But not all dots grow at the same rate. There are ways of building a dot, especially non conventional builds, where a dot can go from almost completely worthless to potentially SIM breaking over the course of a couple of seasons late in the build process. Most of these are ones where speed isn't touched for the first 5 to 6 seasons, then virtually every sp is put into speed for the next 3-4 while simultaneously training speed. Others, are builds that rely completely on SAs and VAs to work. Until the agent starts putting sp into the SAs (usually after level 60) and gets the 3rd VA filled out, they greatly under perform at lower levels compared to their potential and their performance at higher levels.
 
VenomCoach
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Originally posted by Toriq
Because the powers that be apparently don't want a "real" football sim, but a fun MMO game. So, under that premise and those constraints, you have to work with what you have in place. The whole D sliding in towards the QB's direction at the snap isn't football either.

/shrug ™


How is it fun to have a game that is FUBAR?

The defense sliding toward the QB is because the D doesn't have proper keys. They aren't hard to assign. Everyone is keying the ball.

Option A - Follow the OP's suggestion which takes us further from football and still doesn't address that the basic "blitz" angle for every player is wrong.

Option B - Have basic keys. which fix a good portion of our pathing issues.
 
VenomCoach
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Originally posted by Rage Kinard
Have you actually watched the SIMs to see how blocking mechanics works in this game?

You can't work off leverage in this game, because it does not matter which side of a blocker a defender is on. It's not like you can put a blocker on your inside shoulder and then have the ability to move to the outside. If a blocker is engaged with a defender, the angle does not matter. Just because an OT is inside of a DE does not mean that the DE can break away to the outside.

Basically the blocking mechanics of this mimics football if holding were completely legal. Blockers can grab defenders from any angle and prevent them from working toward a play.


Yes you can. you simply need to set the intercept point on the high side of the blocker.

Now you can use VIS the way it should be. VIS affects how quickly the player reads run or pass VIS affects the range from an optimal intercept angle the defender takes.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1617418&pbp_id=7659117

This would still happen with your suggestion. And before you have directional blitzing as you have suggested your basic blitz still needs to be semi intelligent. It obviously isn't and until basic keys are added the sim will continue to be an abortion.

OP stands as ridiculous
 
bhall43
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i dont get it...the OP is about run containment and people are arguing about shutouts?
 
jimmiejoe
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Holy cow!

A play that actually kept containment. (had to share since it is rare it seems... maybe basic tactics are needed )

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1640526&pbp_id=7871734
 
Rage Kinard
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Originally posted by VenomCoach
Yes you can. you simply need to set the intercept point on the high side of the blocker.

Now you can use VIS the way it should be. VIS affects how quickly the player reads run or pass VIS affects the range from an optimal intercept angle the defender takes.




So you set an intercept pt to the high side of the blocker. The blocker takes a path well inside of where the runner is going to go. The defender hits the high side of the blocker and sticks to him like a fly on fly paper. Then the HB runs 3 yards outside them, and even though the defender is outside of the blocker, he won't make a move toward the ball carrier, because he is stuck to the fly paper.
 
Rage Kinard
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Originally posted by jimmiejoe
Holy cow!

A play that actually kept containment. (had to share since it is rare it seems... maybe basic tactics are needed )

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1640526&pbp_id=7871734


private
 
jimmiejoe
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Originally posted by Rage Kinard
Originally posted by jimmiejoe

Holy cow!

A play that actually kept containment. (had to share since it is rare it seems... maybe basic tactics are needed )

http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1640526&pbp_id=7871734


private


RAAAAAAGGGGEEEEE!!!!

That figures
 
VenomCoach
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Originally posted by Rage Kinard
So you set an intercept pt to the high side of the blocker. The blocker takes a path well inside of where the runner is going to go. The defender hits the high side of the blocker and sticks to him like a fly on fly paper. Then the HB runs 3 yards outside them, and even though the defender is outside of the blocker, he won't make a move toward the ball carrier, because he is stuck to the fly paper.


The RB will cut inside or bubble if he runs through it, which is another GLB issue, he has a chance to get tackled.

Why are you so against defensive players at least heading where they are supposed to go?

GLB is a bad sim because there is little that simulates football within it. Why not start from the ground up and fix that?

 
Rage Kinard
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Originally posted by VenomCoach
The RB will cut inside or bubble if he runs through it, which is another GLB issue, he has a chance to get tackled.

Why are you so against defensive players at least heading where they are supposed to go?

GLB is a bad sim because there is little that simulates football within it. Why not start from the ground up and fix that?



Because I don't think they are ever going to even attempt to make blocking interaction and proper angles correct. If you can't simulate containment by gaining proper leverage and angle when attacking the blocker, then you need some way to simulate it. The only way the SIM allows that right now is for the defensive player to be outside (or traveling to a point outside) of where the offensive player is heading.

I'd much rather the SIM have it so that if a defensive player was positioned correctly, he could try to move off the block to make a play on the ball carrier, and the blocker could try to push the defender farther in that direction in order to create a cut back lane. Unfortunately, I don't ever see that happening in this game.

It kills me watching plays like this though
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1636927&pbp_id=7505155 - The SS moves to an intercept point based on WRs path at the time. However, he should be trying to attack the outside of the ball carrier since there is inside help.
 
Black Peter
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Originally posted by VenomCoach
How is it fun to have a game that is FUBAR?

The defense sliding toward the QB is because the D doesn't have proper keys. They aren't hard to assign. Everyone is keying the ball.

Option A - Follow the OP's suggestion which takes us further from football and still doesn't address that the basic "blitz" angle for every player is wrong.

Option B - Have basic keys. which fix a good portion of our pathing issues.


If you can get them to program B then fine and dandy, but just don't see it happening. I don't enjoy a FUBARed SIM anymore than another paying customer, but that's how it is now and so the suggestion is valid since it would allow some sort of mitigation to the basic "run towards QB/center" logic that is now in play.

 
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Originally posted by bedgood42
First I am voting +1 great idea.

OP needs to be updated though.

Any LB, safety, and CB needs to have an option of Weak side contain OR strong side contain. We move our dots around in DPC and I don't trust GLB to choose whether my dot should be cheating weak or strong.

CB should be included. If I want to put the safety on the WR and use the CB to contain it should be allowed.

Maybe this should be aother choice in the default drop down.
Cover HB, and then the drop down would be zone, blitz, contain weak, contain strong.


Alright this thread got off track and many of the things being discussed are a dream. This is an idea that could easily be added to the current SIM without having to redo the way GLB works. And this would improve the DAI options from their current state.

Especially the part in BOLD which gives a DC the option to not use this at all if they so choose.
 
daunteblack
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+1 bump
 
NEXT
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+1
 
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