Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Awesomus_Prime
+1 lets kill the running game even more

Because the running game is dead

http://goallineblitz.com/game/stats.pl?season=21&league_id=280&conference_id=0&stat=rushing&sort=rushing_yards/carries&playoffs=0&stat_type=raw (WL)

http://goallineblitz.com/game/stats.pl?season=21&league_id=43&conference_id=0&stat=rushing&sort=rushing_yards/carries&playoffs=0&stat_type=raw (Semi Pro elite)

http://goallineblitz.com/game/stats.pl?season=21&league_id=37&conference_id=0&stat=rushing&sort=rushing_yards/carries&playoffs=0&stat_type=raw (national Minor elite #1)

http://goallineblitz.com/game/stats.pl?season=21&league_id=38&conference_id=0&stat=rushing&sort=rushing_yards/carries&playoffs=0&stat_type=raw (national Minor Elite #2)

http://goallineblitz.com/game/stats.pl?season=21&league_id=137&conference_id=0&stat=rushing&sort=rushing_yards/carries&playoffs=0&stat_type=raw (regional Minor Elite)

http://goallineblitz.com/game/stats.pl?season=21&league_id=145&conference_id=0&stat=rushing&sort=rushing_yards/carries&playoffs=0&stat_type=raw (local Minor Elite #1)

http://goallineblitz.com/game/stats.pl?season=21&league_id=146&conference_id=0&stat=rushing&sort=rushing_yards/carries&playoffs=0&stat_type=raw (local minor elite #2)


Those are supposed to be the most competitive leagues right now. Looks like rushing is doing just fine.

Originally posted by Rage Kinard

If you want them to be useless vs. pass plays

Risk reward. That's what competition is about.

How about we create a means of the SS and FS to move inside the box or outside depending on the package of HBs in the game? Of course with tags we already have that capability, same as we can already contain, but it would be so much easier if they did it for us. Less scouting and fewer risks.

Originally posted by Dr. E
Risk reward. That's what competition is about.

How about we create a means of the SS and FS to move inside the box or outside depending on the package of HBs in the game? Of course with tags we already have that capability, same as we can already contain, but it would be so much easier if they did it for us. Less scouting and fewer risks.

You are talking risk reward with no basis in actual football mechanics. A defender's assignment for rushing plays should not effect his assignment for pass coverage.

The risk reward for having DCs set defenders to contain is better defense against outside runs (arguably over powered right now) but making inside run defense (also arguably over powered right now) worse.

Part of the problem with inside rushing in this game is that when a run is going inside, all defenders who recognize run start running toward the QB from the start of the play. They are artificially drawn inside before the HB or FB ever gets the ball. It makes it harder for OL to double team DL allowing DL to make more tackles, and when HBs get past the DL, there are more defenders there to potentially make a play.

If you have a containment setting that sends defenders with that setting outside for a set amount of ticks, they will be better able to prevent ball carriers from getting to the sideline and defend better on pitches and sweeps, but it also takes them out of the play on inside rushes.

Originally posted by Rage Kinard
You are talking risk reward with no basis in actual football mechanics. A defender's assignment for rushing plays should not effect his assignment for pass coverage.

The risk reward for having DCs set defenders to contain is better defense against outside runs (arguably over powered right now) but making inside run defense (also arguably over powered right now) worse.

Part of the problem with inside rushing in this game is that when a run is going inside, all defenders who recognize run start running toward the QB from the start of the play. They are artificially drawn inside before the HB or FB ever gets the ball. It makes it harder for OL to double team DL allowing DL to make more tackles, and when HBs get past the DL, there are more defenders there to potentially make a play.

If you have a containment setting that sends defenders with that setting outside for a set amount of ticks, they will be better able to prevent ball carriers from getting to the sideline and defend better on pitches and sweeps, but it also takes them out of the play on inside rushes.



Bah. That SS run blitzing sure is out of position for any pass play, ask Troy P.

Plus...this isn't football, it's a game based on football with it's own mechanics, to include everyone heading for the QB and being in position to better attack the inside run. I think people forget that.

The inside run doesn't work because the powerbacks aren't build to run inside. They are the same as elusive backs just with a different set of unique triggered abilities. Build one with tons of carry and see if he doesn't get 3.5 yards a carry.

Originally posted by Dr. E
Bah. That SS run blitzing sure is out of position for any pass play, ask Troy P.

Plus...this isn't football, it's a game based on football with it's own mechanics, to include everyone heading for the QB and being in position to better attack the inside run. I think people forget that.

The inside run doesn't work because the powerbacks aren't build to run inside. They are the same as elusive backs just with a different set of unique triggered abilities. Build one with tons of carry and see if he doesn't get 3.5 yards a carry.

The LOLB set to cover TE or HB/FB strong man 2 man is out of position for a pitch or screen.

The ROLB set to cover HB/FB weak is out of position for a pitch or screen.

Even Safeties set to cover deep zones end up getting sucked inside.

Assigning a player to a flat zone makes them utterly useless against most pass plays other than the screens. You end up playing defense with 9-10 players against 50% of the plays, and doesn't provide any benefit for another 25-30%.

Making an assignment that provides reward for 20-25% of plays and high risk for 75-80% is not a balanced risk/reward scenario.

^^^^ 100% this

i ^^^100% support Toriq whom ^^^^100% supports RK

The original suggestion and the mechanics of it are just stupid. Implementing it just takes us further from football.

Originally posted by Rage Kinard
Need a setting so that DC can set either OLB or S to have containment responsibility on running plays.

Then if the LB or S reads run (or is set to run focus and is failing vision checks) their movement should be to the outside rather than inside toward the QB or another ball carrier for the first 5 ticks of a play.

That isn't how you play contain even in youth ball.

Football is played on keys and leverage.

Originally posted by bedgood42
You have to remember that is a game not really football. This idea provides us with more control. dots can't actually think so they can't do what humans do.

There were multiple football coaching sims allowing keys 15 years ago. Why can't GLB do it?

This idea takes us further from football. So instead of adding something that further takes us from the game we are supposed to be simming, why not add something that takes us closer?

Originally posted by VenomCoach
There were multiple football coaching sims allowing keys 15 years ago. Why can't GLB do it?

This idea takes us further from football. So instead of adding something that further takes us from the game we are supposed to be simming, why not add something that takes us closer?


Because the powers that be apparently don't want a "real" football sim, but a fun MMO game. So, under that premise and those constraints, you have to work with what you have in place. The whole D sliding in towards the QB's direction at the snap isn't football either.

/shrug ™

Originally posted by VenomCoach
That isn't how you play contain even in youth ball.

Football is played on keys and leverage.

Have you actually watched the SIMs to see how blocking mechanics works in this game?

You can't work off leverage in this game, because it does not matter which side of a blocker a defender is on. It's not like you can put a blocker on your inside shoulder and then have the ability to move to the outside. If a blocker is engaged with a defender, the angle does not matter. Just because an OT is inside of a DE does not mean that the DE can break away to the outside.

Basically the blocking mechanics of this mimics football if holding were completely legal. Blockers can grab defenders from any angle and prevent them from working toward a play.

Originally posted by Rage Kinard
The LOLB set to cover TE or HB/FB strong man 2 man is out of position for a pitch or screen.

The ROLB set to cover HB/FB weak is out of position for a pitch or screen.

Even Safeties set to cover deep zones end up getting sucked inside.

Assigning a player to a flat zone makes them utterly useless against most pass plays other than the screens. You end up playing defense with 9-10 players against 50% of the plays, and doesn't provide any benefit for another 25-30%.

Making an assignment that provides reward for 20-25% of plays and high risk for 75-80% is not a balanced risk/reward scenario.

Well. Somehow people are stopping all these plays despite their being out of position, otherwise we wouldn't have people being shut out. Therefore there are answers. Seems like it just takes a little work. We could of course make some changes in the game so every 11 year old that logs in is a master of defense simply because the Dots can do it all. I hope not though, I like a game with challenges over a toss of the dice.

Originally posted by Dr. E
Well. Somehow people are stopping all these plays despite their being out of position, otherwise we wouldn't have people being shut out. Therefore there are answers. Seems like it just takes a little work. We could of course make some changes in the game so every 11 year old that logs in is a master of defense simply because the Dots can do it all. I hope not though, I like a game with challenges over a toss of the dice.

People who are shut out are shut out because their builds and/or tactics are vastly inferior.

There have only been 2 shutouts in WL, and it was the same team both times. That is 2 out of 144 games. There are 11 teams scoring 35+ PPG. There is only 1 team that averaged 35 PPG in the NFL over the last 10 years. The teams in the median (16/17) are at 31.2 and 29.3. Only New England scored more PPG than those two teams in 2010.

Originally posted by Rage Kinard
People who are shut out are shut out because their builds and/or tactics are vastly inferior.

There have only been 2 shutouts in WL, and it was the same team both times. That is 2 out of 144 games. There are 11 teams scoring 35+ PPG. There is only 1 team that averaged 35 PPG in the NFL over the last 10 years. The teams in the median (16/17) are at 31.2 and 29.3. Only New England scored more PPG than those two teams in 2010.

Comparing the WL to the NFL. Not sure how that one translates. This isn't football, it's a game based on football. No matter how hard a programmer tries, they can not make pixels act like people with the same limits and possibilities. And limiting shutouts to just the WL is odd. Unless of course you think that the only good DCs are in the WL. Last but not least, that statement that because their builds or tactics are vastly inferior is why all other shut out is just silly. I'm guessing that was a quick emotionally based response. Too much evidence to the contrary.

Originally posted by Dr. E
Comparing the WL to the NFL. Not sure how that one translates. This isn't football, it's a game based on football. No matter how hard a programmer tries, they can not make pixels act like people with the same limits and possibilities. And limiting shutouts to just the WL is odd. Unless of course you think that the only good DCs are in the WL. Last but not least, that statement that because their builds or tactics are vastly inferior is why all other shut out is just silly. I'm guessing that was a quick emotionally based response. Too much evidence to the contrary.

What evidence to the contrary?

http://goallineblitz.com/game/league.pl?league_id=43 - show me all the close games that end in shutouts. Where are the 10-0 and 13-0 games?

http://goallineblitz.com/game/league.pl?league_id=37&conference_id=0 - I found 2 games out of 144 that were shutouts and the winning team scored less than 30 pts.


Let's not forget that the ALG and VA systems in this game work to make high level games much different from low level games. It's not that only good DCs exist at upper levels or only good DCs exist at lower levels. It is a matter of the game being very different at those levels.

For instance, look at the importance of DL having better VAs than OL. At lower levels, the pancake to reverse pancake ratios are often even for good OL. For very good ones, they typically have more pancakes than reverse pancakes. However, as you get up in levels, and DL are able to add Bull Rusher and Heavyweight they numbers quickly start moving toward the DL side, until the upper levels where OL get almost no pancakes (except LOTs) but are reverse pancaked frequently.

The same holds true with some of the offensive players and their builds that don't become over powered until they are able to start adding SAs onto their builds and stacking VAs that work with that build. 15 slippery doesn't do much for a back by itself. 15 slippery, +15 quick feet, +10 spin, +10 juke does though.

Not to mention that many of the more effective high end builds are very ineffective at lower levels because of the build process and VA requirements needed to get there (like the spin receiver).

Because the game is so different at upper levels and lower levels, you can't balance it for both ends. Therefore the game needs to be balanced for end game, since that is what everyone is building towards, and where dots spend 3-4 seasons rather than 1 season at a given level.