The problem is having streaky though, not the attribute level. Streaky shouldn't be used for initial passes if you are trying to get a feel for the basics. It should be tested later for sure, but even then its easy enough just to modify the raw attribute by the proper percentage than to run loads of tests and hope its actually triggering.
Forum > Test Server Discussion > Test Server Discussions > Passing Game Mechanics Test Results-Discussion Thread
Joebarber
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Originally posted by Enkidu98
The problem is having streaky though, not the attribute level. Streaky shouldn't be used for initial passes if you are trying to get a feel for the basics. It should be tested later for sure, but even then its easy enough just to modify the raw attribute by the proper percentage than to run loads of tests and hope its actually triggering.
Exactly...something like streaky shouldn't be tested when you can just manually adjust the attributes up 5%
The problem is having streaky though, not the attribute level. Streaky shouldn't be used for initial passes if you are trying to get a feel for the basics. It should be tested later for sure, but even then its easy enough just to modify the raw attribute by the proper percentage than to run loads of tests and hope its actually triggering.
Exactly...something like streaky shouldn't be tested when you can just manually adjust the attributes up 5%
WiSeIVIaN
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Some thoughts
I agree that the way passing works currently with checkdowns is dumb. Whoever the QB is looking at when hurried he will simply chuck the ball to (normally it is thrown a bit harder than unhurries throws for whatever reason). This is dumb and looks especially bad in double or triple coverage. Adding a final vision check to be able to notice nearby WRs, or lettings QB observe multiple targets, is a good realistic change.
One thing that needs to be fixed at some point is collision detection in defenders. If you go play a pickup football game, you never want to put multiple people in man coverage against 1 defender. That is because you'll trip each other up and make the coverage worse. Yet in GLB, you can put 2 or 3 defenders in man on a WR with no penalty at all. This is unrealistic, and at the top levels of the game makes passing on 3rd-and-long out of anything besides singleback and shotgun literally impossible (unlike in real life). When randy moss gets double or triple covered he does not have multiple players in man coverage against him. A safety over the top makes sense, but having mutliple defenders stick to a guy like glue while overlapping each other is oh so bad.
Also, if they really wanted to curb lolsuperspd WRs, making agility have a bigger role in acceleration and turning with high speeds would be a good place to start. My WR has twice as much speed as agility but makes cuts at high speed with no problem. 140/80 spd/agi is faster at accelerating than 120/100. Stuff like that is what leads to problems. Yes agility matters in acceleration, but since currently in the formulas spd>agi for acceleration still, high spd low agi doesn't have a real penalty.
I agree that the way passing works currently with checkdowns is dumb. Whoever the QB is looking at when hurried he will simply chuck the ball to (normally it is thrown a bit harder than unhurries throws for whatever reason). This is dumb and looks especially bad in double or triple coverage. Adding a final vision check to be able to notice nearby WRs, or lettings QB observe multiple targets, is a good realistic change.
One thing that needs to be fixed at some point is collision detection in defenders. If you go play a pickup football game, you never want to put multiple people in man coverage against 1 defender. That is because you'll trip each other up and make the coverage worse. Yet in GLB, you can put 2 or 3 defenders in man on a WR with no penalty at all. This is unrealistic, and at the top levels of the game makes passing on 3rd-and-long out of anything besides singleback and shotgun literally impossible (unlike in real life). When randy moss gets double or triple covered he does not have multiple players in man coverage against him. A safety over the top makes sense, but having mutliple defenders stick to a guy like glue while overlapping each other is oh so bad.
Also, if they really wanted to curb lolsuperspd WRs, making agility have a bigger role in acceleration and turning with high speeds would be a good place to start. My WR has twice as much speed as agility but makes cuts at high speed with no problem. 140/80 spd/agi is faster at accelerating than 120/100. Stuff like that is what leads to problems. Yes agility matters in acceleration, but since currently in the formulas spd>agi for acceleration still, high spd low agi doesn't have a real penalty.
darkenrahl_17
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Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
Some thoughts
One thing that needs to be fixed at some point is collision detection in defenders. If you go play a pickup football game, you never want to put multiple people in man coverage against 1 defender. That is because you'll trip each other up and make the coverage worse. Yet in GLB, you can put 2 or 3 defenders in man on a WR with no penalty at all. This is unrealistic, and at the top levels of the game makes passing on 3rd-and-long out of anything besides singleback and shotgun literally impossible (unlike in real life). When randy moss gets double or triple covered he does not have multiple players in man coverage against him. A safety over the top makes sense, but having mutliple defenders stick to a guy like glue while overlapping each other is oh so bad.
I totally agree with this. But as a DC I use my Safeties to double the WR's a lot because the Zone coverage is so worthless in the sim, that my Safeties might as well not be on the field in a C2 shell(slight exaggeration). I think that if we were to have more of the 'collision detection' we would probably need to tweak how zones are used as well. Granted we don't need to go back to the overpowered zones of season 10, but to have them be more effective is what I am looking for.
Some thoughts
One thing that needs to be fixed at some point is collision detection in defenders. If you go play a pickup football game, you never want to put multiple people in man coverage against 1 defender. That is because you'll trip each other up and make the coverage worse. Yet in GLB, you can put 2 or 3 defenders in man on a WR with no penalty at all. This is unrealistic, and at the top levels of the game makes passing on 3rd-and-long out of anything besides singleback and shotgun literally impossible (unlike in real life). When randy moss gets double or triple covered he does not have multiple players in man coverage against him. A safety over the top makes sense, but having mutliple defenders stick to a guy like glue while overlapping each other is oh so bad.
I totally agree with this. But as a DC I use my Safeties to double the WR's a lot because the Zone coverage is so worthless in the sim, that my Safeties might as well not be on the field in a C2 shell(slight exaggeration). I think that if we were to have more of the 'collision detection' we would probably need to tweak how zones are used as well. Granted we don't need to go back to the overpowered zones of season 10, but to have them be more effective is what I am looking for.
Doug_Plank
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variables should be isolated better. tactics, build, eq -- everything but one particular difference. And every aspect of builds/eq/VA and tactics should be made public
something like streaky that has an inherent variability built within itself goes against the above tenet
perhaps people are upset because the data collected thus far has been a waste of time due to improper variable isolation and, if that is the case, it is justified imo
something like streaky that has an inherent variability built within itself goes against the above tenet
perhaps people are upset because the data collected thus far has been a waste of time due to improper variable isolation and, if that is the case, it is justified imo
Edited by Doug_Plank on Oct 20, 2010 11:45:49
Joebarber
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Originally posted by Doug_Plank
variables should be isolated better. tactics, build, eq -- everything but one particular difference. And every aspect of builds/eq/VA and tactics should be made public
something like streaky that has an inherent variability built within itself goes against the above tenet
perhaps people are upset because the data collected thus far has been a waste of time due to improper variable isolation and, if that is the case, it is justified imo
Bingo
variables should be isolated better. tactics, build, eq -- everything but one particular difference. And every aspect of builds/eq/VA and tactics should be made public
something like streaky that has an inherent variability built within itself goes against the above tenet
perhaps people are upset because the data collected thus far has been a waste of time due to improper variable isolation and, if that is the case, it is justified imo
Bingo
^
I will start from stating a clear goal for the test.
1. What you want to measure/test
2. What you consider a good GLB behavior (in respect to 1)
The OP has some hints for that, but they are not quantified.
I will start from stating a clear goal for the test.
1. What you want to measure/test
2. What you consider a good GLB behavior (in respect to 1)
The OP has some hints for that, but they are not quantified.
darkenrahl_17
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The Test Results have been updated with newer games added.....
http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=4314227
http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=4314227
mdkaden
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Originally posted by Pietasters
1) Look at how far the FS comes in the time the ball is thrown. I have no issue with the CB who is on aggressive making a play. But the FS is in the situation to get the pass defend before the WR even gets to do anything with the ball. This is one of the strong reasons you see non speed builds have issues.
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658596
I'm not sure how you have no issue with the CB on this play.... at this point in the route the CB should be running stride for stride with the WR and maybe just starting to get his head around towards the ball. The ball is tragically under thrown and should be an incomplete pass. If the issue is that dot have no sides, they really should have fields of visions btw, then why doesn't the WR get a chance to play back to the ball. I just have issue with a CB being able to make this play at all....
Originally posted by Pietasters
5) Normally you see over thrown Interceptions but this one is behind the receiver. Kinda cool.
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658672
Would be interesting to know if the CB is in man or zone. If he's in man coverage he should be nowhere near this play.
Originally posted by Pietasters
6) Both the CB and FS seem to go for the interception.
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658707
Why is this pass so under thrown? No pressure at all on the play. Seems to happen too often.
Originally posted by Pietasters
7) The SS seems to be covering the TE but makes the pick off of the WR.
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658723
If the SS is in man then this is an incredibly difficult int....
Originally posted by Pietasters
9) CB makes the pick on this long throw. But look at the distance the FS moves to get back into the play.
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658743
Again, I have more of an issue with the CB turning and making a play on this. The FS is in a better position to make this play on this replay then in the other one. Does the FS have Ball Hawk here?
Originally posted by Pietasters
10) CB covering WR2 comes across and makes the pick on a throw to WR1
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658813
At least the CB is probably looking toward the QB at this point but a tough catch none the less. Plus its a really bad throw and I think CB1 probably INTs it anyways.
A big issue with most of these is 360 vision. Also the ability to change direction on a dime at near full speed.
1) Look at how far the FS comes in the time the ball is thrown. I have no issue with the CB who is on aggressive making a play. But the FS is in the situation to get the pass defend before the WR even gets to do anything with the ball. This is one of the strong reasons you see non speed builds have issues.
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658596
I'm not sure how you have no issue with the CB on this play.... at this point in the route the CB should be running stride for stride with the WR and maybe just starting to get his head around towards the ball. The ball is tragically under thrown and should be an incomplete pass. If the issue is that dot have no sides, they really should have fields of visions btw, then why doesn't the WR get a chance to play back to the ball. I just have issue with a CB being able to make this play at all....
Originally posted by Pietasters
5) Normally you see over thrown Interceptions but this one is behind the receiver. Kinda cool.
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658672
Would be interesting to know if the CB is in man or zone. If he's in man coverage he should be nowhere near this play.
Originally posted by Pietasters
6) Both the CB and FS seem to go for the interception.
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658707
Why is this pass so under thrown? No pressure at all on the play. Seems to happen too often.
Originally posted by Pietasters
7) The SS seems to be covering the TE but makes the pick off of the WR.
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658723
If the SS is in man then this is an incredibly difficult int....
Originally posted by Pietasters
9) CB makes the pick on this long throw. But look at the distance the FS moves to get back into the play.
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658743
Again, I have more of an issue with the CB turning and making a play on this. The FS is in a better position to make this play on this replay then in the other one. Does the FS have Ball Hawk here?
Originally posted by Pietasters
10) CB covering WR2 comes across and makes the pick on a throw to WR1
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658813
At least the CB is probably looking toward the QB at this point but a tough catch none the less. Plus its a really bad throw and I think CB1 probably INTs it anyways.
A big issue with most of these is 360 vision. Also the ability to change direction on a dime at near full speed.
AngryDragon
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This is all very interesting and I admit I have not had time to read it all. My biggest problem with passing in GLB is the QB tactics. They are static for every play all game long. This tends to mean we need a short yardage passer and a deep passer which can easily be tagged. I wish there could be a simple way to address this but I guess if there was it would already be implemented.
Originally posted by AngryDragon
This is all very interesting and I admit I have not had time to read it all. My biggest problem with passing in GLB is the QB tactics. They are static for every play all game long. This tends to mean we need a short yardage passer and a deep passer which can easily be tagged. I wish there could be a simple way to address this but I guess if there was it would already be implemented.
This is one of the silliest things about GLB.
QB settings should be like blocking settings, which would give a small bonus to type of pass you select (bullet, medium, lofty) and a small penalty to the other types -- but the type of pass needed should be dictated by the indivdual play and not by the QB passing tactics.
This is all very interesting and I admit I have not had time to read it all. My biggest problem with passing in GLB is the QB tactics. They are static for every play all game long. This tends to mean we need a short yardage passer and a deep passer which can easily be tagged. I wish there could be a simple way to address this but I guess if there was it would already be implemented.
This is one of the silliest things about GLB.
QB settings should be like blocking settings, which would give a small bonus to type of pass you select (bullet, medium, lofty) and a small penalty to the other types -- but the type of pass needed should be dictated by the indivdual play and not by the QB passing tactics.
General impression from
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3035
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3042
Passing game is overpowered.
A few replays i seen:
- http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3035&pbp_id=653155
What the QB is doing ? why is he stepping up into the pocket when the perimeter is so wide and the inside is collapsing. This is a hurry rewarded for QB bad pocket behavior
- http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3035&pbp_id=653156
What the deal with the LOLB here ? is that a deliberately bad D play or a real issue ?
- http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3035&pbp_id=653157
this screen pass is a fail since both WRs starts in the slot. I never understood why GLB
- http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3035&pbp_id=653161
- http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3035&pbp_id=653167
- http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3042&pbp_id=654639
If the SS and FS play zone they should be smarter then that.When playing a deep zone, they should not be easily folled by the inside move. (In the first case that might be the WR4 distracting the SS)
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3035
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3042
Passing game is overpowered.
A few replays i seen:
- http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3035&pbp_id=653155
What the QB is doing ? why is he stepping up into the pocket when the perimeter is so wide and the inside is collapsing. This is a hurry rewarded for QB bad pocket behavior
- http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3035&pbp_id=653156
What the deal with the LOLB here ? is that a deliberately bad D play or a real issue ?
- http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3035&pbp_id=653157
this screen pass is a fail since both WRs starts in the slot. I never understood why GLB
- http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3035&pbp_id=653161
- http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3035&pbp_id=653167
- http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3042&pbp_id=654639
If the SS and FS play zone they should be smarter then that.When playing a deep zone, they should not be easily folled by the inside move. (In the first case that might be the WR4 distracting the SS)
rockitsauce
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@tragula: You're referencing test games that are 70 or 80 games ago. There have been TONS of changes since then.
Originally posted by rockitsauce
@tragula: You're referencing test games that are 70 or 80 games ago. There have been TONS of changes since then.
me
They do come from a Oct 26 generated thread and marked as 'newer results'
http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=4314227&page=1#39138537
@tragula: You're referencing test games that are 70 or 80 games ago. There have been TONS of changes since then.
me They do come from a Oct 26 generated thread and marked as 'newer results'
http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=4314227&page=1#39138537
Edited by tragula on Oct 27, 2010 13:58:52
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