Warrior General Games

Originally posted by tragula
me

They do come from a Oct 26 generated thread and marked as 'newer results'
http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=4314227&page=1#39138537



Well, I was going by game IDs. We're in teh 3100 range now. And about 3080 Bort uploaded a ton of new changes in response to the testing.

Originally posted by rockitsauce
Well, I was going by game IDs. We're in teh 3100 range now. And about 3080 Bort uploaded a ton of new changes in response to the testing.

Thanks for the info.

Some replays for an updated game

- http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3104&pbp_id=669253
- http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3104&pbp_id=669266
Why the QB skips the FB ? It only make sens if he is set to large route distance priority, if the FB make the catch early he will easily get to his specific route distance so I would expect that only extreme setting (priorety +100) will prevent the throw.
I also see a visual quirk in this plays where the QB vision line is toward and an empty point for 4 ticks

- http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3104&pbp_id=669254
It is not a catch but I like the way all dots (D and O) fought for the ball

- http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3104&pbp_id=669255
Replay look like a fumble. Should be fixed imo

- http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3104&pbp_id=669267
Lol HB blocking. It looks like the bug the D sometime have when the defenders dance with the ball carrier instead of going toward him. My guess is that once the DT was reengaged the HB has nothing to do and went back to a default spot on the field.

- http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3104&pbp_id=669271
Even if the LG doesn't recognize the blitz he should stand on the C head.

- http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3104&pbp_id=669272
5 blocking 7 and only one gets through.

- http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3104&pbp_id=669272
It seems that the QB see the ROLB coming in and move away (likely set to no scrambling at all). What he should do is skip the deep route and look for a short pass (maybe can be defined as last progression). That a QB stupidity sack more than anything else.

- http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3104&pbp_id=669279
Any reason why the TE halt to wave to the QB ?

- http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3104&pbp_id=669282
Look at WR1, unless both FS and CB are set for a middle zone one would expect better coverage here. when they double cover like that the FS should always stay deeper then the receiver whether this is man or zone

- http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3104&pbp_id=669284
SS defends the TE all wrong. It is the endzone and he should use the back of the endzone as a 2nd defender. The SS should have play under the TE in this one.
- http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3104&pbp_id=669286
WR2 freezed at the end of the route. Defenders are not using the back of the endzone properly - they should play under the receivers (unless this is something that can be set for the DPC/DAI and this is just a bad D play)

- http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3104&pbp_id=669289
Lol pump fake, even if the FS see that pump fake he should not anticipate a short pass, the WR is running a flag route and he should defende that route.

- http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3104&pbp_id=669293
Lol FS freeze

I've saw the same when my FB was slower or on 3rd and long.


Originally posted by tragula
Some replays for an updated game

- http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3104&pbp_id=669253
- http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3104&pbp_id=669266
Why the QB skips the FB ? It only make sens if he is set to large route distance priority, if the FB make the catch early he will easily get to his specific route distance so I would expect that only extreme setting (priorety +100) will prevent the throw.
I also see a visual quirk in this plays where the QB vision line is toward and an empty point for 4 ticks

Originally posted by Dr. E
I've saw the same when my FB was slower or on 3rd and long.


This is not third down and the FB has scatback (lol)

Originally posted by Dr. E
I've saw the same when my FB was slower or on 3rd and long.



that is when you need to hammer on the FB progressions.

Generally to get the ball to the HB/FB you need to make them either the first 2 progressions or progression 2. GLB functions it so that people can't just throw quick passes to the backs all day. Which at times sucks, but it is right at the same time. Would be impossible to defend, especially in lower leagues if it didn't work like that. For third and long the QB generally waits for the target to hit near the first down line unless you hammer on the progressions 2-3 times consecutively. And even still he might wait unless the route will never go that far.

Until the dots stop having eyes on all sides of their heads, none of this is going to get fixed.

any updates on this?

Originally posted by jdros13
any updates on this?

Testing is still ongoing, most recently, Catch has summarised all the various discussion regarding this to report back to Bort.
From there I'd guess we will likely see some changes appearing on the changelog if there are significant changes agreed, or just be asked to continue testing if its small sim balancing thats happened?

This was my report to Bort:

Originally posted by Catch22


Comments/observations from testing on test server:

On kick left/kick right, the defenders should be taking a more immediate path towards the ball carrier. Here they run straight down the field until the ball is caught.

http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3098&pbp_id=667908



Mike Rogers has a good point - a QB should be less likely to throw a deep route then a short route, especially on downs like 1st and 10 and 2nd and short/medium. As it is now it seems like the deep route is the first one the QB looks for. Now this could be something to do with tactics (favor deep passes) or progressions, but this happens frequently with these tactics not being set and default progressions being used. Maybe something we can do is make it a harder vision check to throw a deeper pass and an easier one to throw a shorter pass?



Pretty universal opinion on this one - Pump Fake's effect on man coverage needs to be toned down significantly. Usually a defender in man coverage is not watching the QB's eyes or hands, they are watching the receiver. Also see note from Mike re: Pump Fake against Zone:

Originally posted by Mike rogers
Catch a few things to point out before you report (I hope)

Pump Fake is what is killing Zone defenses now, and thats because a single Pump fake will make 4 or 5 DBs move to an empty spot in the field, abandoning their zone assignment.
Zone is not as reliable as Man to start with (In GLB) so this makes it very risky.

You are right that it should have minimal effect on Man Coverage and by minimal I would say none except for 5 and Ins, 5 and Outs, and Out and Ups, and Only when its timed for the break in the route would a man corner 'go the wrong way' if playing very aggressively.
The other route might be a Slant in the initial ticks, where a Man DB is looking in to the QB.

But for all types of defenses make the Pump Fake target a Reciever, not a fixed point in the field. A great pump fake really only ever effects safeties in cover 1 or 2 zones, and LBs in a deep middle zone or dual middle/hook assignment which we dont have in GLB anyway. Everyone else should be sticking to assignment.

Great that Pump Fake may be scaled down, but it sounded like you might only be doing it against man, which is not so great.






Idea from tester - have risk calculations take into account single vs double coverage. If a receiver is being double covered, the QB should move to the next progression quicker if they pass a vision check to do so. Example of an instance where a QB threw a pass where there were two other viable receivers that should have been thrown to:

http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3078&pbp_id=663320




Some issues with the QB vision getting stuck/frozen:

http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3109&pbp_id=670445
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3109&pbp_id=670462
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3109&pbp_id=670466
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3109&pbp_id=670467
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3109&pbp_id=670468
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3109&pbp_id=670514
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3109&pbp_id=670566
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3109&pbp_id=670594
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3109&pbp_id=670616
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3109&pbp_id=670620
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3109&pbp_id=670638





Issue: WR is running out of end zone on a route (should never happen) and QB is targeting a WR who has ran out of the end zone (should also never happen)

http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3078&pbp_id=663255




Issue: It needs to be even easier for a QB to see and throw quicker to a receiver who is I'm Open. Case in point - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3078&pbp_id=663269 - QB shoould have gotten rid of the ball almost as soon as the WR made the cut. By waiting he gives the defenders too much time to respond.










His initial response to some of the questions/issues posed:

Originally posted by
a QB should be less likely to throw a deep route then a short route, especially on downs like 1st and 10 and 2nd and short/medium.

He already does.

Originally posted by
But for all types of defenses make the Pump Fake target a Reciever, not a fixed point in the field.

That's what look off does. Pump fake is supposed to make defenders try to jump the pass like they would on aggressive, which would be to some spot on the field where the ball would head.

Originally posted by
Idea from tester - have risk calculations take into account single vs double coverage. If a receiver is being double covered, the QB should move to the next progression quicker if they pass a vision check to do so.

He already does. High risk = move on quicker, low risk = keep with him. A hurry (as in your example) is probably going to make him throw to whoever he happens to be looking at, or maybe somebody underneath if he's got enough time.

Originally posted by
Some issues with the QB vision getting stuck/frozen:

Is the QB vision line maybe getting stuck from HB/FB being held back to block by the audible option?

I read most of that as........working as intended

Originally posted by JTsNiners
I read most of that as........working as intended



Lots of "working as intended" even though it's more likely "not really working well enough"

Originally posted by Catch22
He already does. High risk = move on quicker, low risk = keep with him. A hurry (as in your example) is probably going to make him throw to whoever he happens to be looking at, or maybe somebody underneath if he's got enough time.

It appears this could be related to the 'I'm Open' issue noted prior as well. If the guy has low risk and he's looked at longer, then you're wasting time.

Honestly, QB should make his throw decision VERY quickly on a target. If they are open, throw. Remove all this crap about how far they are from the line etc. If they are open, and its their turn in the progressions, then throw the ball immediately.

We'd actually get more dink and dunk offenses in GLB this way.

If the receiving target isn't a good target then move to the next read in the progression and do so quickly.

Reducing time spent on each read is likely a good thing, let the QB cycle through their progressions if no one comes open the first time through.

Also, each play should have a designated dump off target (user selectable just like the custom progressions). So if the QB is going to make a throw decision have him make a quick check of the dump off target before he throws the ball completely away.

Originally posted by Enkidu98

Honestly, QB should make his throw decision VERY quickly on a target. If they are open, throw. Remove all this crap about how far they are from the line etc. If they are open, and its their turn in the progressions, then throw the ball immediately.


No.
The distance into the route is controlled by the QB pass priority setting (at least theoretically). If I set a receiver on a streak route as the 1st progression it means I am willing to wait for him to get open.
When pass priority is set to 100% (pass distance) I do expect the QB to wait on a route until it reached the hot spot.
when I set pass priority to -100% (open man) I expect the QB to cycle fast between the dots to find the first open target.

I am less then sure if it works like that in the new code, but I definitely would like the pass priority setting to have this effect.

I may have some reading comprehension problems. Bort told us that in the existing code, the pass priority setting has no effect on the speed of progressions. I do hope that catch is talking about a new feature in the sim.

Originally posted by Enkidu98

Also, each play should have a designated dump off target (user selectable just like the custom progressions). So if the QB is going to make a throw decision have him make a quick check of the dump off target before he throws the ball completely away.


I agree about a dump off target. I also would expect that QBs be able to jump to the dump of target when he feel the pressure (instead of automatically throw into triple coverage)

I just figured the distance from the line thing should be a QB setting, not part of the standard SIM logic.

The Sim Logic shouldn't have such a high preference for the first down marker, instead it should have a preference for the open targets as they are seen. Gaining yards, ANY positive yards, should take precedence to gaining a first down EXCEPT on 3rd down situations.

If you want to tell your QB's to 'prefer long' then the bias could be invoked. But making it basically the default setting mena sthat the SIM prefers, often ridiculously so, to wait for a longer route, instead of throwing to a completely wide open man underneath with no coverage and likely to gain even more yards than if the QB waits and then throws downfield to some guy on a streak route.

ALSO, OC's should have to think. Changing your progressions on a play based on when it is run (what down/field position) allows the OC to use a passing attack to steadily gain yardage by passing to the first open man regardless of the first down line.

As it is, even when you set your slider for 'open man' the sim logic appears to favour inordinately longer routes and will not pass to the first open man. There is too much weight in the receiver calculations, it seems, to being closer to a first down line. Making a lot of the shallow crossing routes useless.

I would like significantly more control (without making the sim crazy complicated) over my QB's target selection. If this means tweaking the open man/route distance slider so that 100% open man means as SOON as he sees a target who is open, no matter how many yards downfield he throws.. I would be happier. Except doing this means 3rd down's get screwed would be my guess because the sim logic doesn't seem to be able to handle obvious exceptions to rules very well.