Warrior General Games

Originally posted by PDO
You're missing the point right here though.

Archetypes allowed for a system in which everyone had DIFFERENT ALGs.

Now the differences between the archetypes are so similar that it's irrelevant.

But at .67 they're either very unbalanced (and more rigid), or they are all the same (and more rigid).

You would have

Speed, Catching, Vision

Speed, Catching, Agility

Speed, Catching, Jumping

all the same

or

Speed, Catching, Vision

Agility, Catching, Jumping

Strength, Agility, Catching

and no one picks the second two.

Look at the DTs, even after knocking them down to .5 the only viable build is Strength DT because no one will give up strength or agility when they can have both. If you give one WR way more speed than the others it will be the only one chosen.

I can see what you're saying, but I'm thinking that if proper guidelines were added to the game (ex: needing catching+vision to make a catch, even if you're wide open, and of course adding bump and run coverage)... the other builds would become viable.

The problem shouldn't be that at .67 everyone would chose speed.

The problem should be that the sim shouldn't be so heavily reliant on speed.

Altering builds so that they all end up the same because of this doesn't make any sense...

Originally posted by PDO


The problem should be that the sim shouldn't be so heavily reliant on speed.



I totally agree wtih you there. I feel like the bottom end should be a little faster and the top end a little slower. Like everyone lands between 20 and 38 on the speed script instead of 12 and 45.

The weird thing about that is that football is actually heavily reliant on speed, reducing the game to dots just makes it more apparent. After all, the object of the game is to get from point A to point B with the football while being chased. More will always be better. Maybe speed and strength should have lower softcaps than the others (I know that's a terrible Idea, feel free not to mention it).

Originally posted by Fumanchuchu
I totally agree wtih you there. I feel like the bottom end should be a little faster and the top end a little slower. Like everyone lands between 20 and 38 on the speed script instead of 12 and 45.

The weird thing about that is that football is actually heavily reliant on speed, reducing the game to dots just makes it more apparent. After all, the object of the game is to get from point A to point B with the football while being chased. More will always be better. Maybe speed and strength should have lower softcaps than the others (I know that's a terrible Idea, feel free not to mention it).




Terrible idea!

Personally, I'd rather create a game where the possibilities for more than 1 build exist... and then go from there to make sure that all the builds develop and become useful.

Instead we're constantly pandering to speed.

the only .07 difference means you will need 14+ levels to seperate the attributes by 1 SP. Whereas if the minors were at .2, there would be a seperation at every 5 levels. Based on the .4 major still. Increasing the major creates more of a difference, meaning the archetypes are more of archetypes, not just SA switches.

Originally posted by LionsLover
the only .07 difference means you will need 14+ levels to seperate the attributes by 1 SP. Whereas if the minors were at .2, there would be a seperation at every 5 levels. Based on the .4 major still. Increasing the major creates more of a difference, meaning the archetypes are more of archetypes, not just SA switches.

agreed, needs to happen.

Originally posted by Fumanchuchu
If you give one WR way more speed than the others it will be the only one chosen.
Bingo. People need to keep in mind that WRs only get +.33 to their majors right now, so bumping that up to +.4 will obviously make it possible to get even faster. Right now you can justify picking a different archetype since you're still getting the +.33 speed minor, but if the gap was the old .25 instead of the current .07 then hardly anyone would pick anything besides speedster.

Originally posted by jdbolick

Bingo. People need to keep in mind that WRs only get +.33 to their majors right now, so bumping that up to +.4 will obviously make it possible to get even faster. Right now you can justify picking a different archetype since you're still getting the +.33 speed minor, but if the gap was the old .25 instead of the current .07 then hardly anyone would pick anything besides speedster.


So make things like catching, agility, vision, strength, jumping, carrying, confidence more important.

If we go with .5's (preferably .67's imo) we can actually make this into a rock-paper-scissors deal where you can gain something but lose in something else and builds will actually be different...

Originally posted by foofighter24
You say "watered down". I say they are more "balanced", like football players should be.

would u say the worst DE in football is comparable to the best then also

Originally posted by PDO
If we go with .5's (preferably .67's imo) we can actually make this into a rock-paper-scissors deal where you can gain something but lose in something else and builds will actually be different...
No, you wouldn't get rock-paper-scissors. You'd get rock-rock-rock, where every team has five 160 speed receivers.

Originally posted by jdbolick
Originally posted by PDO

If we go with .5's (preferably .67's imo) we can actually make this into a rock-paper-scissors deal where you can gain something but lose in something else and builds will actually be different...
No, you wouldn't get rock-paper-scissors. You'd get rock-rock-rock, where every team has five 160 speed receivers.


yup....and lucky for us the people working on this realize that and don't feel like PDO.

Originally posted by PDO
Originally posted by ImTheScientist

I disagree 100% with you. What they do is get slightly better bonuses by choosing an archetype. Then where they differentiate from other builds is through their VA and SA choices.

Slight different is an understatement...

It works out to less than 4 SP difference between the two.

That's just too small. The only differences in natural attributes will be A) the order in which they're done and B) EQ.

That's just dumb.

You missed the main point of my post.

Originally posted by jdbolick
Originally posted by Fumanchuchu

If you give one WR way more speed than the others it will be the only one chosen.
Bingo. People need to keep in mind that WRs only get +.33 to their majors right now, so bumping that up to +.4 will obviously make it possible to get even faster. Right now you can justify picking a different archetype since you're still getting the +.33 speed minor, but if the gap was the old .25 instead of the current .07 then hardly anyone would pick anything besides speedster.


I disagree that anyone would pick anything besides speedster, but I agree .4 is a good major. .2 or .15 minors would make more sense though, so people actually have to sacrifice something. .33 minors means you only give up 5 endgame points... which is really a drop in the bucket to most builds.

Originally posted by LionsLover
.2 or .15 minors would make more sense though, so people actually have to sacrifice something.
No, because you must have differentiation in the majors or there's no point in having different archetypes at all. And if you have differentiation, then that means some won't have speed as a major, but if those choices only get .2 or .15 for speed then no one would choose them anyway. These have been designed to not only be reasonable within the sim, but to be relatively balanced between the choices at each position.

Originally posted by LionsLover
I disagree that anyone would pick anything besides speedster, but I agree .4 is a good major. .2 or .15 minors would make more sense though, so people actually have to sacrifice something. .33 minors means you only give up 5 endgame points... which is really a drop in the bucket to most builds.

You're comparing majors and minors as if you would bring them up at the same time, you won't. It's really apples and oranges. There is nothing remotely similar about attributes you cap in your first 30 levels and the ones you use to round out the builds. You pick the archetype that has the big ALGs on the stats you will fill up first. You're acting like someone would pick an archetype and then start working the minor right off the bat because it's "only" a .7 difference.