Warrior General Games

For example:

Speedster gets .4 to speed and confidence and .33 to carrying and jumping.

Possession in turn gets .4 to jumping and carrying and .33 to speed and confidence.

Wow!! That will be what, 3 SP difference?

Originally posted by foofighter24
You say "watered down". I say they are more "balanced", like football players should be.

And I say "all the builds are going to be the same and this game will die because of it."

Originally posted by PDO
Originally posted by foofighter24

You say "watered down". I say they are more "balanced", like football players should be.

And I say "all the builds are going to be the same and this game will die because of it."

because builds are super different now amirite?

Originally posted by Maddoc
because builds are super different now amirite?

Basically, as I know you know, the main difference is EQ.

I was hoping archetypes would change that...

Originally posted by PDO
Originally posted by Maddoc

because builds are super different now amirite?

Basically, as I know you know, the main difference is EQ.

I was hoping archetypes would change that...

The main difference will still be eq, but some positions will no longer have retarded ALGs(either retarded good or retarded bad), and the bonuses and penalties to SAs will be a smaller defining characteristic between players.

It's not making players any less diverse, it's just not increasing diversity quite as much as you might like to see it.

Originally posted by Maddoc
The main difference will still be eq, but some positions will no longer have retarded ALGs(either retarded good or retarded bad), and the bonuses and penalties to SAs will be a smaller defining characteristic between players.

It's not making players any less diverse, it's just not increasing diversity quite as much as you might like to see it.

Maddoc is p smart.

Originally posted by Maddoc
The main difference will still be eq, but some positions will no longer have retarded ALGs(either retarded good or retarded bad), and the bonuses and penalties to SAs will be a smaller defining characteristic between players.

It's not making players any less diverse, it's just not increasing diversity quite as much as you might like to see it.

I agree with everything you said really.

I'm assuming you can understand why I was excited at the idea of pretty diverse builds?

I know it wasn't what was intended, but it'd have been nice to see legitimate differences in builds other than EQ... and the original suggestions had that ability.

The SA business will help, and it certainly is good that some of the ridiculous ALG's are being fixed... but this just seems like they're pussy footing now.

Diversifying the builds too much in terms of ALGs would also allow positions to reach absurdly high levels in their primary stats, game balance would be even further skewed toward having attributes at the 150 mark for practically every position.

The bonuses and penalties to SAs is really a fairly elegant method of making each archetype different without completely destroying any semblance of balance in the sim.

It absolutely would allow absurdly high levels... I'm sure someone could have figured out a way to start flirting with 160 speed on a WR with the .67 gain.

I also believe though the only way to ever really have make this game have diverse builds is to make it more of a rock paper scissors deal... and I really think we had a shot at that with the .67 gains all over the place.

Originally posted by PDO
It absolutely would allow absurdly high levels... I'm sure someone could have figured out a way to start flirting with 160 speed on a WR with the .67 gain.

I also believe though the only way to ever really have make this game have diverse builds is to make it more of a rock paper scissors deal... and I really think we had a shot at that with the .67 gains all over the place.

Except it would be more like Rock, Paper, Chainsaw

Speed is 100% more important than any other attribute in the game, and no other attributes even matter if you can't reach the player to make a tackle for example.

Originally posted by Maddoc
Except it would be more like Rock, Paper, Chainsaw

Speed is 100% more important than any other attribute in the game, and no other attributes even matter if you can't reach the player to make a tackle for example.

It's a fair point, but presumably if you could implement bump and run coverage, along with requiring a guy moving a million pixles per second, to have high catching and vision to come down with the ball with any sort of consistency, and you could avoid a lot of those problems....

Originally posted by Time Trial
Also the difference between majors and minors have been watered down so far in this new system that is there really a point?

On all of the WRs you get .4 on your major and .33 on your minor.
Unless this is the plan going forward? Watered down players? It is going to make some positions overpowered and constantly needing to be nerfed while others underpoered and in need of buffing.

The majors need to be .67 to .5 and the minors need to be .33 to .2 imo.

I disagree 100% with you. What they do is get slightly better bonuses by choosing an archetype. Then where they differentiate from other builds is through their VA and SA choices.

Originally posted by ImTheScientist
I disagree 100% with you. What they do is get slightly better bonuses by choosing an archetype. Then where they differentiate from other builds is through their VA and SA choices.

Slight different is an understatement...

It works out to less than 4 SP difference between the two.

That's just too small. The only differences in natural attributes will be A) the order in which they're done and B) EQ.

That's just dumb.

Originally posted by PDO
Slight different is an understatement...

It works out to less than 4 SP difference between the two.

That's just too small. The only differences in natural attributes will be A) the order in which they're done and B) EQ.

That's just dumb.

I think the bigger the difference in ALGS, the less freedom you have in the build. Look at the current dots, there is no way someone is starting a C with agility, and no way someone starts a DT with speed.

I've never had a problem with cap order determining final build, it makes sense to me that a player comes in with one outstanding skill and then builds their game around it as their career progresses.

I think judgment on how diverse the builds will be should be reserved until the archetype specific SAs come out. They will be one of a kind for that type and could make big differences in the character of their play.

Not to mention the free bonus SA, that opens up tons of build opportunities.

A spin FB use to be a no go because you needed to use all your AEQ on spin so you couldn't have any break tackle% pieces, now you can pick Spin if you want spin and use you AEQ elsewhere.

A run stuffing DE can pick up Break Thru and still carry break block% AEQ.

Originally posted by Fumanchuchu
I think the bigger the difference in ALGS, the less freedom you have in the build. Look at the current dots, there is no way someone is starting a C with agility, and no way someone starts a DT with speed.


You're missing the point right here though.

Archetypes allowed for a system in which everyone had DIFFERENT ALGs.

Now the differences between the archetypes are so similar that it's irrelevant.