force these pansys to promote!
Vortus
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Originally posted by crims
I agree. Last year we where Level 31 went 15-1, 1 and 1 in the playoffs and now where in a level 38 league. Some teams came down to level 38 with level 38 guys. We where level 33 when we got here, we boost and we are only level 36. They boost and there level 41. Hows that work for us take the season off?
http://goallineblitz.com/game/team.pl?team_id=5710
Note the team in the links current record, along with their past seasons. Doesnt seem to be a problem.
I agree. Last year we where Level 31 went 15-1, 1 and 1 in the playoffs and now where in a level 38 league. Some teams came down to level 38 with level 38 guys. We where level 33 when we got here, we boost and we are only level 36. They boost and there level 41. Hows that work for us take the season off?
http://goallineblitz.com/game/team.pl?team_id=5710
Note the team in the links current record, along with their past seasons. Doesnt seem to be a problem.
Captain Jack Riley
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You know..I've been doing a lot of thinking about this whole issue tonight. I see about 5 threads that are non-epic that fringe on being the same topic as this, just worded differently and a much less effective idea.
So I really took time to think about the most efficient processes to compile and use ALL AT ONCE to make an idea like this work.
There are several steps to the process of truly making the leagues competitive imo and it has NOTHING to do with Slow building, I want to say that up front. Bort, I really hope you read this, think about it, and maybe even share your input.
Step 1: Get rid of Cap 18, 26, 30, 34, 38, & 46. Upgrade Cap 31, to cap 32
That leaves you with 4 caps in the minors. 14, 22, 32, & 42. Do away with Uncapped Minors (yes, I just said that). Everything over level 42, is forced to AA.
Step 2: Put a level cap on AA. Yes, I'm serious. My suggestion would be between 52 & 55. that forces everything above 55, to AAA. Edit: I would also suggest adding a second 'restriction' to AA. Nothing younger than 480 days (or if the plateau is extended, whatever the decline age becomes). This way, nothing over 55 AND nothing younger than decline can be in AA. The point has been made that declining players go to AA to 'die off' in there last couple of seasons, to be honest, I think that is acceptable, however, I also feel that those players should be limited to 2 seasons in AA before a forced retirement or move back up to AAA or above.
Step 3: REMOVE the option to reject WL Promotion flat out, and replace it with an option to 'reject and restart' as suggested. Then tie it to the feature listed in step 8.
Step 4: Add a Limit/Restriction on Trades per season. I'm suggesting a total of 10. That includes players/cash incoming and outgoing.
Step 5: Move the trade deadline to Week 3. By my count that gives people 6 days into the season to make any trades. Eliminating midseason gut jobs.
Step 6: HOLD OFF on the reshuffle until AFTER Preseason. Why do I suggest this? Because some wait until right before the season begins to gut their team. They'll still be able to use the preseason as a scouting tool for their own team, but if they choose to guy before day 1, they'll be part of the reshuffle. At this point, the reshuffle should include cycling excess CPU's all to the same leagues, even if this means sending people in AA from what used to be uncapped minors to another region other than what they might have ended up just to keep the CPU teams isolated into their own leagues.
This also includes sending anyone who's average level's are above the AA cap, to AAA or Pro (where ever they belong) and it may result in a AAA team being cycled down to AA but that is an after effect of the process I'm suggesting.
Step 7: Due to the change in the Trade Deadline, due away with the 'double chemistry hit' for days 19-24 and beyond, for SIGNING players only. (or move the double Chemistry back a little further, to help with the strain that these steps might put on some teams' ability to recruit effectively).
Step 8: Install an "auto cut" feature, for when teams request Demotions in the offseason. This would be set up to automatically cut EVERY SINGLE PLAYER above the cap that they have requested to go to, including that of AA (level 55), the very second that the demotion is approved.
Step 9: Pre-Preason Off Season Boosting Only. I've already suggested that there should be a reshuffle AFTER preseason. So that's why I suggest this part of it. Make it so that the ONLY time we can boost for the new season is at the end of the season in the off season, or in the beginning of the season prior to Preseason. Thus, disallowing teams/players from going out and specifically recruiting players who will be OVER their leagues cap level via boosting. While some may say this is inconvenient in terms of strategy, it would help keep the integrity of the system alive.
Step 10: This is the final step that I have thought of (there could be more necessary steps but i haven't thought of any). Instead handing out a bunch of AA teams and above every season. Make it mandatory with new teams from here on out, to start at cap 14. This allows new owners to actually take the time to learn and start from the bottom up. It also eliminates the inevitable selling of teams who start out in AA or above with no stadium and barely any money, resulting in bankruptcy.
Step 11: Thought of another one actually, and yes I'm tying a few different suggestions in here to make this mandatory suggestion, even better imo. Install a Longer Plateau. Encourage Higher levels, level 65+ Players to stay in Pro and above, by rewarding them with more time before they're 'ready to retire.' Rather than forcing them into a situation where they feel they need to go to AA and 'rip apart the leagues' to to be as they are so often called 'stat whores' in the final few season of their careers. This would help AA and leagues below it be competitive. It would also allow higher level players to stay in the level of leagues they SHOULD be and still have fun and compete.
Edit: And please, if you're responding to my post here, don't just -1 it, or +1 it, share a REAL opinion.
Addition: One of the biggest arguments against this I've heard tonight actually is that it forces teams to 'get rid of' players already on their team, with the Off Season boosting installment. Really, it doesn't, but what it DOES do, is force that team into the proper level ranged league. However, you could also make an alternative to my step 9 and enable boosting but only within 1-2 levels above the respective league cap. In other words if you signed a level 54 to a AA team (under my suggestion) they could Boost to level 57, which would put them 2 levels above the cap (55). Still competitive but not overpowered.
So I really took time to think about the most efficient processes to compile and use ALL AT ONCE to make an idea like this work.
There are several steps to the process of truly making the leagues competitive imo and it has NOTHING to do with Slow building, I want to say that up front. Bort, I really hope you read this, think about it, and maybe even share your input.
Step 1: Get rid of Cap 18, 26, 30, 34, 38, & 46. Upgrade Cap 31, to cap 32
That leaves you with 4 caps in the minors. 14, 22, 32, & 42. Do away with Uncapped Minors (yes, I just said that). Everything over level 42, is forced to AA.
Step 2: Put a level cap on AA. Yes, I'm serious. My suggestion would be between 52 & 55. that forces everything above 55, to AAA. Edit: I would also suggest adding a second 'restriction' to AA. Nothing younger than 480 days (or if the plateau is extended, whatever the decline age becomes). This way, nothing over 55 AND nothing younger than decline can be in AA. The point has been made that declining players go to AA to 'die off' in there last couple of seasons, to be honest, I think that is acceptable, however, I also feel that those players should be limited to 2 seasons in AA before a forced retirement or move back up to AAA or above.
Step 3: REMOVE the option to reject WL Promotion flat out, and replace it with an option to 'reject and restart' as suggested. Then tie it to the feature listed in step 8.
Step 4: Add a Limit/Restriction on Trades per season. I'm suggesting a total of 10. That includes players/cash incoming and outgoing.
Step 5: Move the trade deadline to Week 3. By my count that gives people 6 days into the season to make any trades. Eliminating midseason gut jobs.
Step 6: HOLD OFF on the reshuffle until AFTER Preseason. Why do I suggest this? Because some wait until right before the season begins to gut their team. They'll still be able to use the preseason as a scouting tool for their own team, but if they choose to guy before day 1, they'll be part of the reshuffle. At this point, the reshuffle should include cycling excess CPU's all to the same leagues, even if this means sending people in AA from what used to be uncapped minors to another region other than what they might have ended up just to keep the CPU teams isolated into their own leagues.
This also includes sending anyone who's average level's are above the AA cap, to AAA or Pro (where ever they belong) and it may result in a AAA team being cycled down to AA but that is an after effect of the process I'm suggesting.
Step 7: Due to the change in the Trade Deadline, due away with the 'double chemistry hit' for days 19-24 and beyond, for SIGNING players only. (or move the double Chemistry back a little further, to help with the strain that these steps might put on some teams' ability to recruit effectively).
Step 8: Install an "auto cut" feature, for when teams request Demotions in the offseason. This would be set up to automatically cut EVERY SINGLE PLAYER above the cap that they have requested to go to, including that of AA (level 55), the very second that the demotion is approved.
Step 9: Pre-Preason Off Season Boosting Only. I've already suggested that there should be a reshuffle AFTER preseason. So that's why I suggest this part of it. Make it so that the ONLY time we can boost for the new season is at the end of the season in the off season, or in the beginning of the season prior to Preseason. Thus, disallowing teams/players from going out and specifically recruiting players who will be OVER their leagues cap level via boosting. While some may say this is inconvenient in terms of strategy, it would help keep the integrity of the system alive.
Step 10: This is the final step that I have thought of (there could be more necessary steps but i haven't thought of any). Instead handing out a bunch of AA teams and above every season. Make it mandatory with new teams from here on out, to start at cap 14. This allows new owners to actually take the time to learn and start from the bottom up. It also eliminates the inevitable selling of teams who start out in AA or above with no stadium and barely any money, resulting in bankruptcy.
Step 11: Thought of another one actually, and yes I'm tying a few different suggestions in here to make this mandatory suggestion, even better imo. Install a Longer Plateau. Encourage Higher levels, level 65+ Players to stay in Pro and above, by rewarding them with more time before they're 'ready to retire.' Rather than forcing them into a situation where they feel they need to go to AA and 'rip apart the leagues' to to be as they are so often called 'stat whores' in the final few season of their careers. This would help AA and leagues below it be competitive. It would also allow higher level players to stay in the level of leagues they SHOULD be and still have fun and compete.
Edit: And please, if you're responding to my post here, don't just -1 it, or +1 it, share a REAL opinion.
Addition: One of the biggest arguments against this I've heard tonight actually is that it forces teams to 'get rid of' players already on their team, with the Off Season boosting installment. Really, it doesn't, but what it DOES do, is force that team into the proper level ranged league. However, you could also make an alternative to my step 9 and enable boosting but only within 1-2 levels above the respective league cap. In other words if you signed a level 54 to a AA team (under my suggestion) they could Boost to level 57, which would put them 2 levels above the cap (55). Still competitive but not overpowered.
Edited by Jack Riley on Jan 5, 2010 10:22:50
Edited by Jack Riley on Jan 5, 2010 10:21:08
Edited by Jack Riley on Jan 5, 2010 00:28:14
Edited by Jack Riley on Jan 5, 2010 00:24:49
Edited by Jack Riley on Jan 5, 2010 00:00:25
Steelrain72
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Really like the AA cut off. There are a lot of trophy whores out there that sign up for AA and uncapped. It's hard enough to find players AAA and above!
Captain Jack Riley
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Originally posted by PackMan97
To be honest, I'd like to see AA and AAA removed. Just put everything into a capped league and expand/contract the caps as the number of teams/players warrant (just like we do with minors).
Not only do I think that would destroy competitiveness, It would have level 40's wanting into Pro because they don't want into capped leagues, it'd only make things worse imo.
My suggestion above, to get rid of some Caps and Uncapped Minors merely involves cycling those teams to other caps and/or AA leagues, where they match up with the average of the rest of the league. The other steps, have been carefully thought of and included to serve a purpose for a 'final look'.
I would also like to state, That I understand those who don't like SSB, but at the same time, at higher levels this would nullify most of that from being an advantage imo. As per all the leagues would begin to get competitive, we'd see more evenly ranged leagues throughout GLB and SSB's would be forced to compete against teams of equal level. I understand that it can be argued that SSB's are stronger but at the same time, I am one of, apparently the few that believe no matter how hard you try, you're never going to get rid of slow building completely. So I believe the focus needs to change to making the game better for the rest of us.
To be honest, I'd like to see AA and AAA removed. Just put everything into a capped league and expand/contract the caps as the number of teams/players warrant (just like we do with minors).
Not only do I think that would destroy competitiveness, It would have level 40's wanting into Pro because they don't want into capped leagues, it'd only make things worse imo.
My suggestion above, to get rid of some Caps and Uncapped Minors merely involves cycling those teams to other caps and/or AA leagues, where they match up with the average of the rest of the league. The other steps, have been carefully thought of and included to serve a purpose for a 'final look'.
I would also like to state, That I understand those who don't like SSB, but at the same time, at higher levels this would nullify most of that from being an advantage imo. As per all the leagues would begin to get competitive, we'd see more evenly ranged leagues throughout GLB and SSB's would be forced to compete against teams of equal level. I understand that it can be argued that SSB's are stronger but at the same time, I am one of, apparently the few that believe no matter how hard you try, you're never going to get rid of slow building completely. So I believe the focus needs to change to making the game better for the rest of us.
Edited by Jack Riley on Jan 5, 2010 13:24:08
JeffSteele
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Originally posted by DL24
"We play to win the game!"
Right? And if you win, you move up. Right?
Make it automatic, mandatory, whatever you want to call it.Wrong, this isn't the NFL where winning carries money.
We play to have fun. Teams targeted by this issue fall under teams that have fun by not promoting as much and taking a slower road or no road to the Pros. These teams don't give a crap about WL because it's arbitrarily the best. They are content with being successful to a certain point, starting over, and doing the same. It's akin to the college coaches who prefer to build up programs than go compete with a top program; to them, it's more fun down there.
"We play to win the game!"
Right? And if you win, you move up. Right?
Make it automatic, mandatory, whatever you want to call it.Wrong, this isn't the NFL where winning carries money.
We play to have fun. Teams targeted by this issue fall under teams that have fun by not promoting as much and taking a slower road or no road to the Pros. These teams don't give a crap about WL because it's arbitrarily the best. They are content with being successful to a certain point, starting over, and doing the same. It's akin to the college coaches who prefer to build up programs than go compete with a top program; to them, it's more fun down there.
Captain Jack Riley
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Originally posted by SyedAshrafulla
Wrong, this isn't the NFL where winning carries money.
We play to have fun. Teams targeted by this issue fall under teams that have fun by not promoting as much and taking a slower road or no road to the Pros. These teams don't give a crap about WL because it's arbitrarily the best. They are content with being successful to a certain point, starting over, and doing the same. It's akin to the college coaches who prefer to build up programs than go compete with a top program; to them, it's more fun down there.
maybe you're right, and if you are, those teams, should fall under a permenant cap. Perhaps put a 'Promotion EVER?" (Options: Yes or No)
On their team page, if they select no, permenantly cap the team so that they can only have certain levels on their team. Then, for as long as they want, they can compete at that 'certain level' because honestly, the game is bigger than them. The game goes far beyond those who do not want to compete, the game also includes the MANY MANY MANY more who do.
Wrong, this isn't the NFL where winning carries money.
We play to have fun. Teams targeted by this issue fall under teams that have fun by not promoting as much and taking a slower road or no road to the Pros. These teams don't give a crap about WL because it's arbitrarily the best. They are content with being successful to a certain point, starting over, and doing the same. It's akin to the college coaches who prefer to build up programs than go compete with a top program; to them, it's more fun down there.
maybe you're right, and if you are, those teams, should fall under a permenant cap. Perhaps put a 'Promotion EVER?" (Options: Yes or No)
On their team page, if they select no, permenantly cap the team so that they can only have certain levels on their team. Then, for as long as they want, they can compete at that 'certain level' because honestly, the game is bigger than them. The game goes far beyond those who do not want to compete, the game also includes the MANY MANY MANY more who do.
JeffSteele
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I'm not Peter, but I'm going to answer them with my opinion, because well I feel like it.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 1: Get rid of Cap 18, 26, 30, 34, 38, & 46. Upgrade Cap 31, to cap 32
That leaves you with 4 caps in the minors. 14, 22, 32, & 42. Do away with Uncapped Minors (yes, I just said that). Everything over level 42, is forced to AA.The middle caps were made for teams that re-toold midseason. Your cap numbers are reflective of teams that create before a season and spend that season in the Pee Wees. I have also supported this, but I remember that people liked the fact that there were mid-season tiers for players who were started in the middle of the season, or agents who joined the game mid-season.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 2: Put a level cap on AA. Yes, I'm serious. My suggestion would be between 52 & 55. that forces everything above 55, to AAA. Edit: I would also suggest adding a second 'restriction' to AA. Nothing younger than 480 days (or if the plateau is extended, whatever the decline age becomes). This way, nothing over 55 AND nothing younger than decline can be in AA. The point has been made that declining players go to AA to 'die off' in there last couple of seasons, to be honest, I think that is acceptable, however, I also feel that those players should be limited to 2 seasons in AA before a forced retirement or move back up to AAA or above.This is equivalent to asking that AA be "removed" and you create retirement leagues. Retirement leagues are basically NGTH although that is due to people who are hard-headed and just think they shouldn't exist. I am open to the idea, but not at the expense of AA. AA is a great level to enter the pyramid.
If you put a "cap" on AA, you might as well just call it the 55cap leagues and just have Pro/AAA in the pyramid; there's no difference except this puts more fluidity in the leagues to prevent CPU spots in new "AA". I actually think AA Is a great level to "enter" the pyramid, which is its goal anyway. It is so that teams who enter from uncapped get to fight each other to enter the echelon, that's why it exists and shouldn't be capped.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 3: REMOVE the option to reject WL Promotion flat out, and replace it with an option to 'reject and restart' as suggested. Then tie it to the feature listed in step 8.The reason teams reject WL promotion is because they have more fun in Pros. You could argue "greater good" here, in that their refusal to promote will ruin the experience of their current Pro League teams. The question is whether you are willing to face owners who don't want to be in WL, are forced there, and then restart. Will WL end up better as a result? Will the pyramids be better? I think so, but this needs to be reasoned out.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 4: Add a Limit/Restriction on Trades per season. I'm suggesting a total of 10. That includes players/cash incoming and outgoing.Uhm, why? Is this to prevent gutting? Why limit the number of trades; they'll just cut everyone instead. The only reason I can see for this is that you prevent a gutting team from benefiting in any way when they trade off their roster. However, unless you set the cap high (so that teams can make frequent exchanges to save their roster) I don't like the idea. I think it would be a better idea to fix cash's effect on the value of trade; make it minimal when the trade involves a team in the pyramid.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 5: Move the trade deadline to Week 3. By my count that gives people 6 days into the season to make any trades. Eliminating midseason gut jobs.This has the unintended artifact of preventing teams from figuring out by midseason whether they are contenders and should trade for a chance to win or to re-tool for next year. I hate early trade deadlines; they give NO room to teams that are vying for the playoffs, none at all. This hampers playoff teams and should not be implemented.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 6: HOLD OFF on the reshuffle until AFTER Preseason. Why do I suggest this? Because some wait until right before the season begins to gut their team. They'll still be able to use the preseason as a scouting tool for their own team, but if they choose to guy before day 1, they'll be part of the reshuffle. At this point, the reshuffle should include cycling excess CPU's all to the same leagues, even if this means sending people in AA from what used to be uncapped minors to another region other than what they might have ended up just to keep the CPU teams isolated into their own leagues.
This also includes sending anyone who's average level's are above the AA cap, to AAA or Pro (where ever they belong) and it may result in a AAA team being cycled down to AA but that is an after effect of the process I'm suggesting.This is an interesting idea. A lot of people do wait until preseason to gut the team and I think this will make that strategy useful: use the preseason as a tool, if you suck, gut and get reshuffled to the bottom. Win-win. The only possible issue is that the preseason allows you to scout your own conference, but really you could just watch their preseason games instead.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 7: Due to the change in the Trade Deadline, due away with the 'double chemistry hit' for days 19-24 and beyond, for SIGNING players only. (or move the double Chemistry back a little further, to help with the strain that these steps might put on some teams' ability to recruit effectively). I will also predicate this on the fact that I am against the Trade Deadline, but the double chemistry hit is to prevent players from being transferred across teams with small hit. This can be re-phrased as the "ringer" rule and should stay for that reason.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 8: Install an "auto cut" feature, for when teams request Demotions in the offseason. This would be set up to automatically cut EVERY SINGLE PLAYER above the cap that they have requested to go to, including that of AA (level 55), the very second that the demotion is approved.Dear god, yes. Dear. God. Yes.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 9: Pre-Preason Off Season Boosting Only. I've already suggested that there should be a reshuffle AFTER preseason. So that's why I suggest this part of it. Make it so that the ONLY time we can boost for the new season is at the end of the season in the off season, or in the beginning of the season prior to Preseason. Thus, disallowing teams/players from going out and specifically recruiting players who will be OVER their leagues cap level via boosting. While some may say this is inconvenient in terms of strategy, it would help keep the integrity of the system alive.I have thought about this for awhile and I don't like it. Boosting is a great strategic advantage during the season, especially in the high cap leagues and uncapped leagues. Holding off on boosting for a few games to spring it on an unsuspecting opponent is an awesome tool that I've used before. There are a myriad of reasons why boosting mid-season is a good thing:
- Getting to 25/30/40 ASAP for VXP
- Surprising an opponent
- Maximizing training gains
- Maximizing XP
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 10: This is the final step that I have thought of (there could be more necessary steps but i haven't thought of any). Instead handing out a bunch of AA teams and above every season. Make it mandatory with new teams from here on out, to start at cap 14. This allows new owners to actually take the time to learn and start from the bottom up. It also eliminates the inevitable selling of teams who start out in AA or above with no stadium and barely any money, resulting in bankruptcy.This would tighten the player market after cap14. There is a middle ground here; how about owners who have not owned a team in the last X seasons have to start in 14? That way owners who are semi-experienced and have contacts (such as an Addict owner) can fill a team in certain caps. I agree there should not be a team that starts out in the pyramid, or really even the uncapped minors, but I'm pretty sure I could fill a team in cap28 pretty easily with my contacts, and I have been pretty distant from the game.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 11: Thought of another one actually, and yes I'm tying a few different suggestions in here to make this mandatory suggestion, even better imo. Install a Longer Plateau. Encourage Higher levels, level 65+ Players to stay in Pro and above, by rewarding them with more time before they're 'ready to retire.' Rather than forcing them into a situation where they feel they need to go to AA and 'rip apart the leagues' to to be as they are so often called 'stat whores' in the final few season of their careers. This would help AA and leagues below it be competitive. It would also allow higher level players to stay in the level of leagues they SHOULD be and still have fun and compete. The problem with a longer plateau is that it makes the league even MORE stagnant and even MORE exclusive than it already is. If this was included with a shorter player acceleration span (say plateau starts after season 7 and then goes for 3 seasons) then it would hit your balance of having players who don't stay in AA because they feel they can actually get to the Pros.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Addition: One of the biggest arguments against this I've heard tonight actually is that it forces teams to 'get rid of' players already on their team, with the Off Season boosting installment. Really, it doesn't, but what it DOES do, is force that team into the proper level ranged league. However, you could also make an alternative to my step 9 and enable boosting but only within 1-2 levels above the respective league cap. In other words if you signed a level 54 to a AA team (under my suggestion) they could Boost to level 57, which would put them 2 levels above the cap (55). Still competitive but not overpowered.Yeah, a cap on boosting would help a lot, I have no real comment for this one as I haven't thought it out.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 1: Get rid of Cap 18, 26, 30, 34, 38, & 46. Upgrade Cap 31, to cap 32
That leaves you with 4 caps in the minors. 14, 22, 32, & 42. Do away with Uncapped Minors (yes, I just said that). Everything over level 42, is forced to AA.The middle caps were made for teams that re-toold midseason. Your cap numbers are reflective of teams that create before a season and spend that season in the Pee Wees. I have also supported this, but I remember that people liked the fact that there were mid-season tiers for players who were started in the middle of the season, or agents who joined the game mid-season.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 2: Put a level cap on AA. Yes, I'm serious. My suggestion would be between 52 & 55. that forces everything above 55, to AAA. Edit: I would also suggest adding a second 'restriction' to AA. Nothing younger than 480 days (or if the plateau is extended, whatever the decline age becomes). This way, nothing over 55 AND nothing younger than decline can be in AA. The point has been made that declining players go to AA to 'die off' in there last couple of seasons, to be honest, I think that is acceptable, however, I also feel that those players should be limited to 2 seasons in AA before a forced retirement or move back up to AAA or above.This is equivalent to asking that AA be "removed" and you create retirement leagues. Retirement leagues are basically NGTH although that is due to people who are hard-headed and just think they shouldn't exist. I am open to the idea, but not at the expense of AA. AA is a great level to enter the pyramid.
If you put a "cap" on AA, you might as well just call it the 55cap leagues and just have Pro/AAA in the pyramid; there's no difference except this puts more fluidity in the leagues to prevent CPU spots in new "AA". I actually think AA Is a great level to "enter" the pyramid, which is its goal anyway. It is so that teams who enter from uncapped get to fight each other to enter the echelon, that's why it exists and shouldn't be capped.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 3: REMOVE the option to reject WL Promotion flat out, and replace it with an option to 'reject and restart' as suggested. Then tie it to the feature listed in step 8.The reason teams reject WL promotion is because they have more fun in Pros. You could argue "greater good" here, in that their refusal to promote will ruin the experience of their current Pro League teams. The question is whether you are willing to face owners who don't want to be in WL, are forced there, and then restart. Will WL end up better as a result? Will the pyramids be better? I think so, but this needs to be reasoned out.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 4: Add a Limit/Restriction on Trades per season. I'm suggesting a total of 10. That includes players/cash incoming and outgoing.Uhm, why? Is this to prevent gutting? Why limit the number of trades; they'll just cut everyone instead. The only reason I can see for this is that you prevent a gutting team from benefiting in any way when they trade off their roster. However, unless you set the cap high (so that teams can make frequent exchanges to save their roster) I don't like the idea. I think it would be a better idea to fix cash's effect on the value of trade; make it minimal when the trade involves a team in the pyramid.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 5: Move the trade deadline to Week 3. By my count that gives people 6 days into the season to make any trades. Eliminating midseason gut jobs.This has the unintended artifact of preventing teams from figuring out by midseason whether they are contenders and should trade for a chance to win or to re-tool for next year. I hate early trade deadlines; they give NO room to teams that are vying for the playoffs, none at all. This hampers playoff teams and should not be implemented.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 6: HOLD OFF on the reshuffle until AFTER Preseason. Why do I suggest this? Because some wait until right before the season begins to gut their team. They'll still be able to use the preseason as a scouting tool for their own team, but if they choose to guy before day 1, they'll be part of the reshuffle. At this point, the reshuffle should include cycling excess CPU's all to the same leagues, even if this means sending people in AA from what used to be uncapped minors to another region other than what they might have ended up just to keep the CPU teams isolated into their own leagues.
This also includes sending anyone who's average level's are above the AA cap, to AAA or Pro (where ever they belong) and it may result in a AAA team being cycled down to AA but that is an after effect of the process I'm suggesting.This is an interesting idea. A lot of people do wait until preseason to gut the team and I think this will make that strategy useful: use the preseason as a tool, if you suck, gut and get reshuffled to the bottom. Win-win. The only possible issue is that the preseason allows you to scout your own conference, but really you could just watch their preseason games instead.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 7: Due to the change in the Trade Deadline, due away with the 'double chemistry hit' for days 19-24 and beyond, for SIGNING players only. (or move the double Chemistry back a little further, to help with the strain that these steps might put on some teams' ability to recruit effectively). I will also predicate this on the fact that I am against the Trade Deadline, but the double chemistry hit is to prevent players from being transferred across teams with small hit. This can be re-phrased as the "ringer" rule and should stay for that reason.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 8: Install an "auto cut" feature, for when teams request Demotions in the offseason. This would be set up to automatically cut EVERY SINGLE PLAYER above the cap that they have requested to go to, including that of AA (level 55), the very second that the demotion is approved.Dear god, yes. Dear. God. Yes.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 9: Pre-Preason Off Season Boosting Only. I've already suggested that there should be a reshuffle AFTER preseason. So that's why I suggest this part of it. Make it so that the ONLY time we can boost for the new season is at the end of the season in the off season, or in the beginning of the season prior to Preseason. Thus, disallowing teams/players from going out and specifically recruiting players who will be OVER their leagues cap level via boosting. While some may say this is inconvenient in terms of strategy, it would help keep the integrity of the system alive.I have thought about this for awhile and I don't like it. Boosting is a great strategic advantage during the season, especially in the high cap leagues and uncapped leagues. Holding off on boosting for a few games to spring it on an unsuspecting opponent is an awesome tool that I've used before. There are a myriad of reasons why boosting mid-season is a good thing:
- Getting to 25/30/40 ASAP for VXP
- Surprising an opponent
- Maximizing training gains
- Maximizing XP
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 10: This is the final step that I have thought of (there could be more necessary steps but i haven't thought of any). Instead handing out a bunch of AA teams and above every season. Make it mandatory with new teams from here on out, to start at cap 14. This allows new owners to actually take the time to learn and start from the bottom up. It also eliminates the inevitable selling of teams who start out in AA or above with no stadium and barely any money, resulting in bankruptcy.This would tighten the player market after cap14. There is a middle ground here; how about owners who have not owned a team in the last X seasons have to start in 14? That way owners who are semi-experienced and have contacts (such as an Addict owner) can fill a team in certain caps. I agree there should not be a team that starts out in the pyramid, or really even the uncapped minors, but I'm pretty sure I could fill a team in cap28 pretty easily with my contacts, and I have been pretty distant from the game.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 11: Thought of another one actually, and yes I'm tying a few different suggestions in here to make this mandatory suggestion, even better imo. Install a Longer Plateau. Encourage Higher levels, level 65+ Players to stay in Pro and above, by rewarding them with more time before they're 'ready to retire.' Rather than forcing them into a situation where they feel they need to go to AA and 'rip apart the leagues' to to be as they are so often called 'stat whores' in the final few season of their careers. This would help AA and leagues below it be competitive. It would also allow higher level players to stay in the level of leagues they SHOULD be and still have fun and compete. The problem with a longer plateau is that it makes the league even MORE stagnant and even MORE exclusive than it already is. If this was included with a shorter player acceleration span (say plateau starts after season 7 and then goes for 3 seasons) then it would hit your balance of having players who don't stay in AA because they feel they can actually get to the Pros.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Addition: One of the biggest arguments against this I've heard tonight actually is that it forces teams to 'get rid of' players already on their team, with the Off Season boosting installment. Really, it doesn't, but what it DOES do, is force that team into the proper level ranged league. However, you could also make an alternative to my step 9 and enable boosting but only within 1-2 levels above the respective league cap. In other words if you signed a level 54 to a AA team (under my suggestion) they could Boost to level 57, which would put them 2 levels above the cap (55). Still competitive but not overpowered.Yeah, a cap on boosting would help a lot, I have no real comment for this one as I haven't thought it out.
Captain Jack Riley
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Originally posted by SyedAshrafulla
I'm not Peter, but I'm going to answer them with my opinion, because well I feel like it. I appreciate the fact that you actually took the time to think about each step and post your honest opinion, thank you.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 1: Get rid of Cap 18, 26, 30, 34, 38, & 46. Upgrade Cap 31, to cap 32
That leaves you with 4 caps in the minors. 14, 22, 32, & 42. Do away with Uncapped Minors (yes, I just said that). Everything over level 42, is forced to AA.
Originally posted by SyedAshrafulla
The middle caps were made for teams that re-toold midseason. Your cap numbers are reflective of teams that create before a season and spend that season in the Pee Wees. I have also supported this, but I remember that people liked the fact that there were mid-season tiers for players who were started in the middle of the season, or agents who joined the game mid-season.
I was actually thinking about the tier system I suggested, I am still not against what I personally suggestioned, i think the caps need to be adjusted, to 14, 21, 31, 38, & 45. This would allow everything above 45 to go into AA and potentially nullify the need for a cap in AA as I suggested.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 2: Put a level cap on AA. Yes, I'm serious. My suggestion would be between 52 & 55. that forces everything above 55, to AAA. Edit: I would also suggest adding a second 'restriction' to AA. Nothing younger than 480 days (or if the plateau is extended, whatever the decline age becomes). This way, nothing over 55 AND nothing younger than decline can be in AA. The point has been made that declining players go to AA to 'die off' in there last couple of seasons, to be honest, I think that is acceptable, however, I also feel that those players should be limited to 2 seasons in AA before a forced retirement or move back up to AAA or above.
Originally posted by SyedAshrafulla
This is equivalent to asking that AA be "removed" and you create retirement leagues. Retirement leagues are basically NGTH although that is due to people who are hard-headed and just think they shouldn't exist. I am open to the idea, but not at the expense of AA. AA is a great level to enter the pyramid.
If you put a "cap" on AA, you might as well just call it the 55cap leagues and just have Pro/AAA in the pyramid; there's no difference except this puts more fluidity in the leagues to prevent CPU spots in new "AA". I actually think AA Is a great level to "enter" the pyramid, which is its goal anyway. It is so that teams who enter from uncapped get to fight each other to enter the echelon, that's why it exists and shouldn't be capped.
My goal here, ideally, would be to keep high levels out of AA all together. I don't believe they belong there to be honest, but at the same time and hoping to find an option that in at least some way, meets everyone's interests. The problem however is, that Uncapped Minors is pretty much AA Part 1. Which pushes the levels of players clear up into the 60's at some points and then when they enter AA, it disallows any teams who've been there trying to compete, once again to compete.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 3: REMOVE the option to reject WL Promotion flat out, and replace it with an option to 'reject and restart' as suggested. Then tie it to the feature listed in step 8.
Originally posted by SyedAshrafulla
The reason teams reject WL promotion is because they have more fun in Pros. You could argue "greater good" here, in that their refusal to promote will ruin the experience of their current Pro League teams. The question is whether you are willing to face owners who don't want to be in WL, are forced there, and then restart. Will WL end up better as a result? Will the pyramids be better? I think so, but this needs to be reasoned out.
Not sure which side of this issue, but I'll add this. I'm not even in favor of ANY rejection capability for being promoted to WL, but I went with a middle ground.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 4: Add a Limit/Restriction on Trades per season. I'm suggesting a total of 10. That includes players/cash incoming and outgoing.
Originally posted by SyedAshrafulla
Uhm, why? Is this to prevent gutting? Why limit the number of trades; they'll just cut everyone instead. The only reason I can see for this is that you prevent a gutting team from benefiting in any way when they trade off their roster. However, unless you set the cap high (so that teams can make frequent exchanges to save their roster) I don't like the idea. I think it would be a better idea to fix cash's effect on the value of trade; make it minimal when the trade involves a team in the pyramid.
The point, yes, in large part is to stop gutting.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 5: Move the trade deadline to Week 3. By my count that gives people 6 days into the season to make any trades. Eliminating midseason gut jobs.
Originally posted by SyedAshrafulla
]This has the unintended artifact of preventing teams from figuring out by midseason whether they are contenders and should trade for a chance to win or to re-tool for next year. I hate early trade deadlines; they give NO room to teams that are vying for the playoffs, none at all. This hampers playoff teams and should not be implemented.
I disagree with you 150%. This forces teams to focus heavily on recruiting and use strategy to build their team and win. Not having something done with the trading system only encourages gutting & fire sales.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 6: HOLD OFF on the reshuffle until AFTER Preseason. Why do I suggest this? Because some wait until right before the season begins to gut their team. They'll still be able to use the preseason as a scouting tool for their own team, but if they choose to guy before day 1, they'll be part of the reshuffle. At this point, the reshuffle should include cycling excess CPU's all to the same leagues, even if this means sending people in AA from what used to be uncapped minors to another region other than what they might have ended up just to keep the CPU teams isolated into their own leagues.
This also includes sending anyone who's average level's are above the AA cap, to AAA or Pro (where ever they belong) and it may result in a AAA team being cycled down to AA but that is an after effect of the process I'm suggesting.
Originally posted by SyedAshrafulla
This is an interesting idea. A lot of people do wait until preseason to gut the team and I think this will make that strategy useful: use the preseason as a tool, if you suck, gut and get reshuffled to the bottom. Win-win. The only possible issue is that the preseason allows you to scout your own conference, but really you could just watch their preseason games instead.
Thank you. I agree, you can always just watch the preseason games that WERE played, the 'negative effect' imo would be minimal.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 7: Due to the change in the Trade Deadline, due away with the 'double chemistry hit' for days 19-24 and beyond, for SIGNING players only. (or move the double Chemistry back a little further, to help with the strain that these steps might put on some teams' ability to recruit effectively).
Originally posted by SyedAshrafulla
I will also predicate this on the fact that I am against the Trade Deadline, but the double chemistry hit is to prevent players from being transferred across teams with small hit. This can be re-phrased as the "ringer" rule and should stay for that reason.
Well it's not that i'm against the double chemistry hit, nto atll really. What i'm really suggesting here is that an adjustment be made, that allows teams vying for playoffs to make FA signings, (because under my proposals they'd no longer be able to make trades by the time they were sure of a playoff run).
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 8: Install an "auto cut" feature, for when teams request Demotions in the offseason. This would be set up to automatically cut EVERY SINGLE PLAYER above the cap that they have requested to go to, including that of AA (level 55), the very second that the demotion is approved.
Originally posted by SyedAshrafulla
Dear god, yes. Dear. God. Yes.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 9: Pre-Preason Off Season Boosting Only. I've already suggested that there should be a reshuffle AFTER preseason. So that's why I suggest this part of it. Make it so that the ONLY time we can boost for the new season is at the end of the season in the off season, or in the beginning of the season prior to Preseason. Thus, disallowing teams/players from going out and specifically recruiting players who will be OVER their leagues cap level via boosting. While some may say this is inconvenient in terms of strategy, it would help keep the integrity of the system alive.
Originally posted by SyedAshrafulla
I have thought about this for awhile and I don't like it. Boosting is a great strategic advantage during the season, especially in the high cap leagues and uncapped leagues. Holding off on boosting for a few games to spring it on an unsuspecting opponent is an awesome tool that I've used before. There are a myriad of reasons why boosting mid-season is a good thing:
- Getting to 25/30/40 ASAP for VXP
- Surprising an opponent
- Maximizing training gains
- Maximizing XP
My general Idea here was to avoid "cap exploiting", I'm not 100% sure of another way to do it, though I don't disagree with the points you made either.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 10: This is the final step that I have thought of (there could be more necessary steps but i haven't thought of any). Instead handing out a bunch of AA teams and above every season. Make it mandatory with new teams from here on out, to start at cap 14. This allows new owners to actually take the time to learn and start from the bottom up. It also eliminates the inevitable selling of teams who start out in AA or above with no stadium and barely any money, resulting in bankruptcy.
Originally posted by SyedAshrafulla
This would tighten the player market after cap14. There is a middle ground here; how about owners who have not owned a team in the last X seasons have to start in 14? That way owners who are semi-experienced and have contacts (such as an Addict owner) can fill a team in certain caps. I agree there should not be a team that starts out in the pyramid, or really even the uncapped minors, but I'm pretty sure I could fill a team in cap28 pretty easily with my contacts, and I have been pretty distant from the game.
I like your alternative here.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 11: Thought of another one actually, and yes I'm tying a few different suggestions in here to make this mandatory suggestion, even better imo. Install a Longer Plateau. Encourage Higher levels, level 65+ Players to stay in Pro and above, by rewarding them with more time before they're 'ready to retire.' Rather than forcing them into a situation where they feel they need to go to AA and 'rip apart the leagues' to to be as they are so often called 'stat whores' in the final few season of their careers. This would help AA and leagues below it be competitive. It would also allow higher level players to stay in the level of leagues they SHOULD be and still have fun and compete.
Originally posted by SyedAshrafulla
The problem with a longer plateau is that it makes the league even MORE stagnant and even MORE exclusive than it already is. If this was included with a shorter player acceleration span (say plateau starts after season 7 and then goes for 3 seasons) then it would hit your balance of having players who don't stay in AA because they feel they can actually get to the Pros.
The only reason I suggest a longer plateau, is that I think older players, need to be encouraged to play at their proper league levels and retire at some reasonable point.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Addition: One of the biggest arguments against this I've heard tonight actually is that it forces teams to 'get rid of' players already on their team, with the Off Season boosting installment. Really, it doesn't, but what it DOES do, is force that team into the proper level ranged league. However, you could also make an alternative to my step 9 and enable boosting but only within 1-2 levels above the respective league cap. In other words if you signed a level 54 to a AA team (under my suggestion) they could Boost to level 57, which would put them 2 levels above the cap (55). Still competitive but not overpowered.
Originally posted by SyedAshrafulla
Yeah, a cap on boosting would help a lot, I have no real comment for this one as I haven't thought it out.
looking forward to hearing your response when you have thought about it.
I'm not Peter, but I'm going to answer them with my opinion, because well I feel like it. I appreciate the fact that you actually took the time to think about each step and post your honest opinion, thank you.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 1: Get rid of Cap 18, 26, 30, 34, 38, & 46. Upgrade Cap 31, to cap 32
That leaves you with 4 caps in the minors. 14, 22, 32, & 42. Do away with Uncapped Minors (yes, I just said that). Everything over level 42, is forced to AA.
Originally posted by SyedAshrafulla
The middle caps were made for teams that re-toold midseason. Your cap numbers are reflective of teams that create before a season and spend that season in the Pee Wees. I have also supported this, but I remember that people liked the fact that there were mid-season tiers for players who were started in the middle of the season, or agents who joined the game mid-season.
I was actually thinking about the tier system I suggested, I am still not against what I personally suggestioned, i think the caps need to be adjusted, to 14, 21, 31, 38, & 45. This would allow everything above 45 to go into AA and potentially nullify the need for a cap in AA as I suggested.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 2: Put a level cap on AA. Yes, I'm serious. My suggestion would be between 52 & 55. that forces everything above 55, to AAA. Edit: I would also suggest adding a second 'restriction' to AA. Nothing younger than 480 days (or if the plateau is extended, whatever the decline age becomes). This way, nothing over 55 AND nothing younger than decline can be in AA. The point has been made that declining players go to AA to 'die off' in there last couple of seasons, to be honest, I think that is acceptable, however, I also feel that those players should be limited to 2 seasons in AA before a forced retirement or move back up to AAA or above.
Originally posted by SyedAshrafulla
This is equivalent to asking that AA be "removed" and you create retirement leagues. Retirement leagues are basically NGTH although that is due to people who are hard-headed and just think they shouldn't exist. I am open to the idea, but not at the expense of AA. AA is a great level to enter the pyramid.
If you put a "cap" on AA, you might as well just call it the 55cap leagues and just have Pro/AAA in the pyramid; there's no difference except this puts more fluidity in the leagues to prevent CPU spots in new "AA". I actually think AA Is a great level to "enter" the pyramid, which is its goal anyway. It is so that teams who enter from uncapped get to fight each other to enter the echelon, that's why it exists and shouldn't be capped.
My goal here, ideally, would be to keep high levels out of AA all together. I don't believe they belong there to be honest, but at the same time and hoping to find an option that in at least some way, meets everyone's interests. The problem however is, that Uncapped Minors is pretty much AA Part 1. Which pushes the levels of players clear up into the 60's at some points and then when they enter AA, it disallows any teams who've been there trying to compete, once again to compete.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 3: REMOVE the option to reject WL Promotion flat out, and replace it with an option to 'reject and restart' as suggested. Then tie it to the feature listed in step 8.
Originally posted by SyedAshrafulla
The reason teams reject WL promotion is because they have more fun in Pros. You could argue "greater good" here, in that their refusal to promote will ruin the experience of their current Pro League teams. The question is whether you are willing to face owners who don't want to be in WL, are forced there, and then restart. Will WL end up better as a result? Will the pyramids be better? I think so, but this needs to be reasoned out.
Not sure which side of this issue, but I'll add this. I'm not even in favor of ANY rejection capability for being promoted to WL, but I went with a middle ground.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 4: Add a Limit/Restriction on Trades per season. I'm suggesting a total of 10. That includes players/cash incoming and outgoing.
Originally posted by SyedAshrafulla
Uhm, why? Is this to prevent gutting? Why limit the number of trades; they'll just cut everyone instead. The only reason I can see for this is that you prevent a gutting team from benefiting in any way when they trade off their roster. However, unless you set the cap high (so that teams can make frequent exchanges to save their roster) I don't like the idea. I think it would be a better idea to fix cash's effect on the value of trade; make it minimal when the trade involves a team in the pyramid.
The point, yes, in large part is to stop gutting.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 5: Move the trade deadline to Week 3. By my count that gives people 6 days into the season to make any trades. Eliminating midseason gut jobs.
Originally posted by SyedAshrafulla
]This has the unintended artifact of preventing teams from figuring out by midseason whether they are contenders and should trade for a chance to win or to re-tool for next year. I hate early trade deadlines; they give NO room to teams that are vying for the playoffs, none at all. This hampers playoff teams and should not be implemented.
I disagree with you 150%. This forces teams to focus heavily on recruiting and use strategy to build their team and win. Not having something done with the trading system only encourages gutting & fire sales.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 6: HOLD OFF on the reshuffle until AFTER Preseason. Why do I suggest this? Because some wait until right before the season begins to gut their team. They'll still be able to use the preseason as a scouting tool for their own team, but if they choose to guy before day 1, they'll be part of the reshuffle. At this point, the reshuffle should include cycling excess CPU's all to the same leagues, even if this means sending people in AA from what used to be uncapped minors to another region other than what they might have ended up just to keep the CPU teams isolated into their own leagues.
This also includes sending anyone who's average level's are above the AA cap, to AAA or Pro (where ever they belong) and it may result in a AAA team being cycled down to AA but that is an after effect of the process I'm suggesting.
Originally posted by SyedAshrafulla
This is an interesting idea. A lot of people do wait until preseason to gut the team and I think this will make that strategy useful: use the preseason as a tool, if you suck, gut and get reshuffled to the bottom. Win-win. The only possible issue is that the preseason allows you to scout your own conference, but really you could just watch their preseason games instead.
Thank you. I agree, you can always just watch the preseason games that WERE played, the 'negative effect' imo would be minimal.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 7: Due to the change in the Trade Deadline, due away with the 'double chemistry hit' for days 19-24 and beyond, for SIGNING players only. (or move the double Chemistry back a little further, to help with the strain that these steps might put on some teams' ability to recruit effectively).
Originally posted by SyedAshrafulla
I will also predicate this on the fact that I am against the Trade Deadline, but the double chemistry hit is to prevent players from being transferred across teams with small hit. This can be re-phrased as the "ringer" rule and should stay for that reason.
Well it's not that i'm against the double chemistry hit, nto atll really. What i'm really suggesting here is that an adjustment be made, that allows teams vying for playoffs to make FA signings, (because under my proposals they'd no longer be able to make trades by the time they were sure of a playoff run).
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 8: Install an "auto cut" feature, for when teams request Demotions in the offseason. This would be set up to automatically cut EVERY SINGLE PLAYER above the cap that they have requested to go to, including that of AA (level 55), the very second that the demotion is approved.
Originally posted by SyedAshrafulla
Dear god, yes. Dear. God. Yes.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 9: Pre-Preason Off Season Boosting Only. I've already suggested that there should be a reshuffle AFTER preseason. So that's why I suggest this part of it. Make it so that the ONLY time we can boost for the new season is at the end of the season in the off season, or in the beginning of the season prior to Preseason. Thus, disallowing teams/players from going out and specifically recruiting players who will be OVER their leagues cap level via boosting. While some may say this is inconvenient in terms of strategy, it would help keep the integrity of the system alive.
Originally posted by SyedAshrafulla
I have thought about this for awhile and I don't like it. Boosting is a great strategic advantage during the season, especially in the high cap leagues and uncapped leagues. Holding off on boosting for a few games to spring it on an unsuspecting opponent is an awesome tool that I've used before. There are a myriad of reasons why boosting mid-season is a good thing:
- Getting to 25/30/40 ASAP for VXP
- Surprising an opponent
- Maximizing training gains
- Maximizing XP
My general Idea here was to avoid "cap exploiting", I'm not 100% sure of another way to do it, though I don't disagree with the points you made either.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 10: This is the final step that I have thought of (there could be more necessary steps but i haven't thought of any). Instead handing out a bunch of AA teams and above every season. Make it mandatory with new teams from here on out, to start at cap 14. This allows new owners to actually take the time to learn and start from the bottom up. It also eliminates the inevitable selling of teams who start out in AA or above with no stadium and barely any money, resulting in bankruptcy.
Originally posted by SyedAshrafulla
This would tighten the player market after cap14. There is a middle ground here; how about owners who have not owned a team in the last X seasons have to start in 14? That way owners who are semi-experienced and have contacts (such as an Addict owner) can fill a team in certain caps. I agree there should not be a team that starts out in the pyramid, or really even the uncapped minors, but I'm pretty sure I could fill a team in cap28 pretty easily with my contacts, and I have been pretty distant from the game.
I like your alternative here.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 11: Thought of another one actually, and yes I'm tying a few different suggestions in here to make this mandatory suggestion, even better imo. Install a Longer Plateau. Encourage Higher levels, level 65+ Players to stay in Pro and above, by rewarding them with more time before they're 'ready to retire.' Rather than forcing them into a situation where they feel they need to go to AA and 'rip apart the leagues' to to be as they are so often called 'stat whores' in the final few season of their careers. This would help AA and leagues below it be competitive. It would also allow higher level players to stay in the level of leagues they SHOULD be and still have fun and compete.
Originally posted by SyedAshrafulla
The problem with a longer plateau is that it makes the league even MORE stagnant and even MORE exclusive than it already is. If this was included with a shorter player acceleration span (say plateau starts after season 7 and then goes for 3 seasons) then it would hit your balance of having players who don't stay in AA because they feel they can actually get to the Pros.
The only reason I suggest a longer plateau, is that I think older players, need to be encouraged to play at their proper league levels and retire at some reasonable point.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Addition: One of the biggest arguments against this I've heard tonight actually is that it forces teams to 'get rid of' players already on their team, with the Off Season boosting installment. Really, it doesn't, but what it DOES do, is force that team into the proper level ranged league. However, you could also make an alternative to my step 9 and enable boosting but only within 1-2 levels above the respective league cap. In other words if you signed a level 54 to a AA team (under my suggestion) they could Boost to level 57, which would put them 2 levels above the cap (55). Still competitive but not overpowered.
Originally posted by SyedAshrafulla
Yeah, a cap on boosting would help a lot, I have no real comment for this one as I haven't thought it out.
looking forward to hearing your response when you have thought about it.
Edited by Jack Riley on Jan 5, 2010 14:30:00
Kirghiz
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Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 1: Get rid of Cap 18, 26, 30, 34, 38, & 46. Upgrade Cap 31, to cap 32
That leaves you with 4 caps in the minors. 14, 22, 32, & 42. Do away with Uncapped Minors (yes, I just said that). Everything over level 42, is forced to AA.
I assume we are talking about single cap promotions for every team that make the playoffs, including conference champions. A double cap jump would be extreme, even for conference champions. What it would do though is help maintain some semblance of rivalries through the Minor Leagues if Bort keeps the teams together through the promotions. There would be no more getting separated from a rival for a season because one won a championship and was at the next cap up. All in all I like it, but there would be some who would bitch because their team is so loaded that they think they could get out of the minors in three seasons. You'll have that. All in all I think it is the perfect scenario for boosters. Non-Boosting teams on the other hand it kind of screws I think, but that isn't a cause I care much about. Some non-booster can make this argument, I'm not going to.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 2: Put a level cap on AA. Yes, I'm serious. My suggestion would be between 52 & 55. that forces everything above 55, to AAA. Edit: I would also suggest adding a second 'restriction' to AA. Nothing younger than 480 days (or if the plateau is extended, whatever the decline age becomes). This way, nothing over 55 AND nothing younger than decline can be in AA. The point has been made that declining players go to AA to 'die off' in there last couple of seasons, to be honest, I think that is acceptable, however, I also feel that those players should be limited to 2 seasons in AA before a forced retirement or move back up to AAA or above.
I agree with this I guess, and I would go with cap 52. The reason is that players that have level 56 equipment to start the season really shouldn't be in AA, they should be in AAA or Pro. Plus, it would eliminate seeing declining dots in AA to rack up stats and score a championship before retirement.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 3: REMOVE the option to reject WL Promotion flat out, and replace it with an option to 'reject and restart' as suggested. Then tie it to the feature listed in step 8.
I don't think you can have such a hardline approach to it. When teams get to Pro they are nearing decline generally, so they have to make a decision soon what they're doing. Many teams have farm teams or whatever that they can re-load their teams from, and that's great, but other teams don't. Teams can make a decision in preseason that this is going to be their final season before retirement and dropping to the Minors, and than go out and win a Pro Championship. You can't force this team to promote to WL if they are planning on gutting. Once that happens, it isn't fair to promote the 3rd or 4th best team in a Pro league to promote into a league with the best teams in GLB, and it isn't good for the prestige of the WL in general.
Obviously that situation above has happened and will happen again. There does need to be some sort of forced promotion system because someone has to fill that last slot. In my opinion the premise of keeping a balanced number of teams from each region is the fatal flaw of the current system. When you have "An Africa Situation", the replacement team shouldn't be forced to come from that region. The 3rd best team from Canada, USA, or another region is perhaps a better team and a better choice. Of course one of the teams that is demoting from WL is perhaps the best team also. Whoever the 32nd best team in GLB is determined to be, using whatever method of determining this should be the one that is forced up.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 4: Add a Limit/Restriction on Trades per season. I'm suggesting a total of 10. That includes players/cash incoming and outgoing.
Sure, why not. It really doesn't matter a whole lot. However, step 5 makes this kind of redundant.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 5: Move the trade deadline to Week 3. By my count that gives people 6 days into the season to make any trades. Eliminating midseason gut jobs.
Day 24 as it stands now is a joke. I do think week 3 is a bit extreme. Hell, the NFL is week 4, and no one trades there during the season. I posted somewhere else in someone's suggestion that making it week 6 or 8 would eliminate a lot of the gut jobs without making it impossible to do it should you decide you need to do it. You do however need the ability to trade if you find that after a few games that you need something for your playoff run. Last season at week 10 one of my teams traded for a player we needed to complete the puzzle. In the general realm of sports though, midseason fire sales are a part of the landscape in the NBA and Major League Baseball. Sometimes teams do this, and they do it because of money, just like GLB. You aren't going to eliminate them without eliminating trading entirely, and a week 3 trade deadline would pretty much do that. I'm not sure I am ready to eliminate trading because someone might gut. A week 6 or 8 trade deadline would be a better compromise.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 6: HOLD OFF on the reshuffle until AFTER Preseason. Why do I suggest this? Because some wait until right before the season begins to gut their team. They'll still be able to use the preseason as a scouting tool for their own team, but if they choose to guy before day 1, they'll be part of the reshuffle. At this point, the reshuffle should include cycling excess CPU's all to the same leagues, even if this means sending people in AA from what used to be uncapped minors to another region other than what they might have ended up just to keep the CPU teams isolated into their own leagues.
This also includes sending anyone who's average level's are above the AA cap, to AAA or Pro (where ever they belong) and it may result in a AAA team being cycled down to AA but that is an after effect of the process I'm suggesting.
No, just no. Teams spend the entire offseason recruiting for the league they are in. If promotion happens after recruiting it will screw a lot of people, piss off a lot more, and you will have even more gutted teams from peopel ragequitting. Here is something I posted in the Multiple team ownership thread that might be a solution to this problem. It probably isn't the best solution, but it would work, and not piss off as many people. http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=3233338&page=19#31933734
Originally posted by Jack Riley
]Step 7: Due to the change in the Trade Deadline, due away with the 'double chemistry hit' for days 19-24 and beyond, for SIGNING players only. (or move the double Chemistry back a little further, to help with the strain that these steps might put on some teams' ability to recruit effectively).
Double chemistry is a relic from the old days and should be removed imo.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 8: Install an "auto cut" feature, for when teams request Demotions in the offseason. This would be set up to automatically cut EVERY SINGLE PLAYER above the cap that they have requested to go to, including that of AA (level 55), the very second that the demotion is approved.
+1 to this. Teams can stay together as long as they want, but if they request into a cap the entire team should qualify for that cap.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 9: Pre-Preason Off Season Boosting Only. I've already suggested that there should be a reshuffle AFTER preseason. So that's why I suggest this part of it. Make it so that the ONLY time we can boost for the new season is at the end of the season in the off season, or in the beginning of the season prior to Preseason. Thus, disallowing teams/players from going out and specifically recruiting players who will be OVER their leagues cap level via boosting. While some may say this is inconvenient in terms of strategy, it would help keep the integrity of the system alive.
Boosting midseason is not an exploit. Double boosting 6 levels over the cap after signing was an exploit, but Bort eliminated that by making the last day to boost day 41. If a 14 capped team boosts early to 17, they are going to be about a level behind the same team that boosts on day 32. Basically, by eliminating boosting in-season you are making 14 cap teams decide in preseason if they are going to be competitive or not, at the expense of long term build gains, because the next chance to boost is day 41. The team that boosts can significantly improve their chances of a championship by doing it, and someone assuredly will. The following season, most people will be boosting to 25 at the start of the season to get the vet points, and after that pretty much everyone boosts early. It doesn't really come into play after 14 capped. I really don't see why people are making such a big deal about boosting midseason. What is more, limiting boosting to preseason and the offseason does absolutely nothing to prevent a 22 cap team from signing a level 22 player and him boosting to 25 because he can still sign and boost. There is no benefit from this, and it does somewhat limit Bort's cash flow I would guess, so it would never happen.
Step 10: I have a philosophical disagreement to this because sales of second teams could very easily fill the void of the teams that sell back after season tickets sell. Don't bother arguing with me on this one, we'll just have to agree to disagree here.
Step 11: There was a brief time when I argued for it, but at the end of the day all it does is delay the inevitable. I can go either way on this issue at this point, and it wouldn't matter to me either way if it happened or not.
Step 1: Get rid of Cap 18, 26, 30, 34, 38, & 46. Upgrade Cap 31, to cap 32
That leaves you with 4 caps in the minors. 14, 22, 32, & 42. Do away with Uncapped Minors (yes, I just said that). Everything over level 42, is forced to AA.
I assume we are talking about single cap promotions for every team that make the playoffs, including conference champions. A double cap jump would be extreme, even for conference champions. What it would do though is help maintain some semblance of rivalries through the Minor Leagues if Bort keeps the teams together through the promotions. There would be no more getting separated from a rival for a season because one won a championship and was at the next cap up. All in all I like it, but there would be some who would bitch because their team is so loaded that they think they could get out of the minors in three seasons. You'll have that. All in all I think it is the perfect scenario for boosters. Non-Boosting teams on the other hand it kind of screws I think, but that isn't a cause I care much about. Some non-booster can make this argument, I'm not going to.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 2: Put a level cap on AA. Yes, I'm serious. My suggestion would be between 52 & 55. that forces everything above 55, to AAA. Edit: I would also suggest adding a second 'restriction' to AA. Nothing younger than 480 days (or if the plateau is extended, whatever the decline age becomes). This way, nothing over 55 AND nothing younger than decline can be in AA. The point has been made that declining players go to AA to 'die off' in there last couple of seasons, to be honest, I think that is acceptable, however, I also feel that those players should be limited to 2 seasons in AA before a forced retirement or move back up to AAA or above.
I agree with this I guess, and I would go with cap 52. The reason is that players that have level 56 equipment to start the season really shouldn't be in AA, they should be in AAA or Pro. Plus, it would eliminate seeing declining dots in AA to rack up stats and score a championship before retirement.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 3: REMOVE the option to reject WL Promotion flat out, and replace it with an option to 'reject and restart' as suggested. Then tie it to the feature listed in step 8.
I don't think you can have such a hardline approach to it. When teams get to Pro they are nearing decline generally, so they have to make a decision soon what they're doing. Many teams have farm teams or whatever that they can re-load their teams from, and that's great, but other teams don't. Teams can make a decision in preseason that this is going to be their final season before retirement and dropping to the Minors, and than go out and win a Pro Championship. You can't force this team to promote to WL if they are planning on gutting. Once that happens, it isn't fair to promote the 3rd or 4th best team in a Pro league to promote into a league with the best teams in GLB, and it isn't good for the prestige of the WL in general.
Obviously that situation above has happened and will happen again. There does need to be some sort of forced promotion system because someone has to fill that last slot. In my opinion the premise of keeping a balanced number of teams from each region is the fatal flaw of the current system. When you have "An Africa Situation", the replacement team shouldn't be forced to come from that region. The 3rd best team from Canada, USA, or another region is perhaps a better team and a better choice. Of course one of the teams that is demoting from WL is perhaps the best team also. Whoever the 32nd best team in GLB is determined to be, using whatever method of determining this should be the one that is forced up.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 4: Add a Limit/Restriction on Trades per season. I'm suggesting a total of 10. That includes players/cash incoming and outgoing.
Sure, why not. It really doesn't matter a whole lot. However, step 5 makes this kind of redundant.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 5: Move the trade deadline to Week 3. By my count that gives people 6 days into the season to make any trades. Eliminating midseason gut jobs.
Day 24 as it stands now is a joke. I do think week 3 is a bit extreme. Hell, the NFL is week 4, and no one trades there during the season. I posted somewhere else in someone's suggestion that making it week 6 or 8 would eliminate a lot of the gut jobs without making it impossible to do it should you decide you need to do it. You do however need the ability to trade if you find that after a few games that you need something for your playoff run. Last season at week 10 one of my teams traded for a player we needed to complete the puzzle. In the general realm of sports though, midseason fire sales are a part of the landscape in the NBA and Major League Baseball. Sometimes teams do this, and they do it because of money, just like GLB. You aren't going to eliminate them without eliminating trading entirely, and a week 3 trade deadline would pretty much do that. I'm not sure I am ready to eliminate trading because someone might gut. A week 6 or 8 trade deadline would be a better compromise.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 6: HOLD OFF on the reshuffle until AFTER Preseason. Why do I suggest this? Because some wait until right before the season begins to gut their team. They'll still be able to use the preseason as a scouting tool for their own team, but if they choose to guy before day 1, they'll be part of the reshuffle. At this point, the reshuffle should include cycling excess CPU's all to the same leagues, even if this means sending people in AA from what used to be uncapped minors to another region other than what they might have ended up just to keep the CPU teams isolated into their own leagues.
This also includes sending anyone who's average level's are above the AA cap, to AAA or Pro (where ever they belong) and it may result in a AAA team being cycled down to AA but that is an after effect of the process I'm suggesting.
No, just no. Teams spend the entire offseason recruiting for the league they are in. If promotion happens after recruiting it will screw a lot of people, piss off a lot more, and you will have even more gutted teams from peopel ragequitting. Here is something I posted in the Multiple team ownership thread that might be a solution to this problem. It probably isn't the best solution, but it would work, and not piss off as many people. http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=3233338&page=19#31933734
Originally posted by Jack Riley
]Step 7: Due to the change in the Trade Deadline, due away with the 'double chemistry hit' for days 19-24 and beyond, for SIGNING players only. (or move the double Chemistry back a little further, to help with the strain that these steps might put on some teams' ability to recruit effectively).
Double chemistry is a relic from the old days and should be removed imo.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 8: Install an "auto cut" feature, for when teams request Demotions in the offseason. This would be set up to automatically cut EVERY SINGLE PLAYER above the cap that they have requested to go to, including that of AA (level 55), the very second that the demotion is approved.
+1 to this. Teams can stay together as long as they want, but if they request into a cap the entire team should qualify for that cap.
Originally posted by Jack Riley
Step 9: Pre-Preason Off Season Boosting Only. I've already suggested that there should be a reshuffle AFTER preseason. So that's why I suggest this part of it. Make it so that the ONLY time we can boost for the new season is at the end of the season in the off season, or in the beginning of the season prior to Preseason. Thus, disallowing teams/players from going out and specifically recruiting players who will be OVER their leagues cap level via boosting. While some may say this is inconvenient in terms of strategy, it would help keep the integrity of the system alive.
Boosting midseason is not an exploit. Double boosting 6 levels over the cap after signing was an exploit, but Bort eliminated that by making the last day to boost day 41. If a 14 capped team boosts early to 17, they are going to be about a level behind the same team that boosts on day 32. Basically, by eliminating boosting in-season you are making 14 cap teams decide in preseason if they are going to be competitive or not, at the expense of long term build gains, because the next chance to boost is day 41. The team that boosts can significantly improve their chances of a championship by doing it, and someone assuredly will. The following season, most people will be boosting to 25 at the start of the season to get the vet points, and after that pretty much everyone boosts early. It doesn't really come into play after 14 capped. I really don't see why people are making such a big deal about boosting midseason. What is more, limiting boosting to preseason and the offseason does absolutely nothing to prevent a 22 cap team from signing a level 22 player and him boosting to 25 because he can still sign and boost. There is no benefit from this, and it does somewhat limit Bort's cash flow I would guess, so it would never happen.
Step 10: I have a philosophical disagreement to this because sales of second teams could very easily fill the void of the teams that sell back after season tickets sell. Don't bother arguing with me on this one, we'll just have to agree to disagree here.
Step 11: There was a brief time when I argued for it, but at the end of the day all it does is delay the inevitable. I can go either way on this issue at this point, and it wouldn't matter to me either way if it happened or not.
Edited by Kirghiz on Jan 5, 2010 15:14:00
JeffSteele
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bah this forum needs to be a wave; it's impossible to have 11 topics in one thread.
Captain Jack Riley
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Originally posted by SyedAshrafulla
bah this forum needs to be a wave; it's impossible to have 11 topics in one thread.
say what?
bah this forum needs to be a wave; it's impossible to have 11 topics in one thread.
say what?
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