Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Bort

- Zone specialist only works for SS, FS, CB (or maybe it should be 1/2 or 1/4 strength for other positions?)


This misses the point entirely.

Right now, you cannot cover a HB man-to-man on any kind of deep route with a LB--they have a 15% speed/agility advantage from Scat Back if the OC has a brain. LBs do not get shutdown coverage. LBs do not get any kind of speed/agility boost (other than ball hawk, which *does* need a nerf to the speed boost) when they're in man-to-man coverage. Even if they match the HB in the speed/agility arms race, the HB has a built-in advantage from Scat Back. Zone spec's speed/agility bonus simply counters what a receiving HB/FB gets from their VAs.

Nerfing zone spec on linebackers simply means that instead of a 4-3, I'm encouraged to run a 3-1-7 with CBs built like linebackers (and David vs. Goliath out the wazoo) *regardless* of whether I'm running zone or man. (If man, they have SDC and can be placed M2M on a RB; if zone, they have full strength zone spec.) I cannot think that this is the desired effect of nerfing zone spec for non-DB players.

Originally posted by tpaterniti


#3 - Screens have been modified along with the new pass block code as well.

Originally posted by Bort

the T and G cannot go downfield until the ball is thrown (ineligible receivers), so they must wait.





Awesome and desperately needed, so long as the blockers don't ignore D dots running past them to the HB until they reach their "spot"

Originally posted by Rage Kinard
TONING DOWN PASS RUSHING? - Are you kidding me?

Pass rushing IS NOT the problem with the passing game.

Who is watching SIMS on a regular basis and complaining that pass rushing is the problem with the passing game?

The problem with the passing game is DBs juiced up on Ball Hawk (and Zone Specialist makes it worse) who can make up 8 yards on a WR between the time the ball is thrown and the time it gets to its target. The problem is 130 speed/80 agility WRs can't get enough seperation from a 95 speed, 95 agility CB to require safety help over the top.

In the 2nd round playoff and conference championship games of WL there were roughly 25 sacks on 500 pass plays. Although that is probably high considering the number of screen passes that are thrown, it isn't so bad it is the primary cause for passing problems, and those numbers would probably drop if WRs didn't have so much trouble getting open.

Toning down the new pass rushing code with the new QB mode, not toning down pass rushing as it exists on GLB now.

Originally posted by tragula
I bet he is referring to balancing the test server new code. As far as I understood with the new pass blocking code sacks/hurries where out of proportion on the test server.


Yes.

So since changes are being made specifically to the VAs, is it safe to assume there are extra resets for anyone who had outside blocker, special teamer, zone specialist, and ball hawk?

Originally posted by OMGWTF
Exactly.

And I'm not even sure why hurries are counted, as they seem to do NOTHING to pass quality. If sacks totals are lowered from where they are now on the main/game servers, their effect needs to be much more devastating to the offenses morale. Right now I'm not sure that they do anything more than loss of down/yardage.

I think they are going to be forcing bad throws a lot more often. We are also looking at steellithium's suggestion to give certain routes "hot points" where the routes are designed to become open that way if QBs are forced to throw early the WRs they are throwing too will have a harder time seeing the pass the further they are from that point. On a slant the WR would hit the point immediately. For a deep post it might take him longer to get there. So if a defense forces a QB to throw a deep post pattern before the route has developed, the WR would be experiencing a very large vision penalty and probably not make the catch.

Originally posted by Bort

- Outside blocker doesn't work on screens (only rushing plays)


If Outsider Blocker is taken away from screens and the blockers can't go down field until the ball is thrown, won't this ruin screens? The HB will catch the ball and explode past his blockers and into the defenders, because no ROT will be fast enough to stay out front of the HB...That is, assuming the blockers don't ignore the D dot in man coverage on the HB that runs into the backfield to explode the play.

I'm all for putting a hurting on screens, but am concerned that all of this just ruins them. If that's the case, may as well save the work and just remove them from the PB as an option.

Screens in real life only work against heavy blitzing defenses. They are designed to take advantage of a D's aggressiveness when they blitz 6 or more. They should not be go-to plays against non-blitzing teams except in very rare situations.

Is toning down pass rushing the only way to make WRs viable in the passing game? I won't rush to judgment but its concerning for DE owners to see this again. Last time didn't go so well.


Has there been any thought about making BallHawk for man coverage?? That way teams can't play zone and stack BH and ZS VAs. This could also help WRs get open.

DEs get half the stats of NFL DEs while HBS get 500% the stats of NFL HBs?

time to nerf DEs imo

HB's don't follow blockers- New screens will suck.

Defensive pathing is shit.

DE's getting worse is laughable.

CB's keep up with WR's far to easily. if I have 120 speed, and the CB has 80. I expect to burn that CB every time. Give Defenses a reason to play Safties over the top.

VA Balance. Zone Specialist + Ball hawk -VS- Track Star and Streaky. Which offers a greater benifit?

Originally posted by Bort

Ok, I'm bumping this with the changes I know I'm making:

- Outside blocker doesn't work on screens (only rushing plays)
- Special teamer works half strength for KR/PR
- Zone specialist only works for SS, FS, CB (or maybe it should be 1/2 or 1/4 strength for other positions?)
- I think ball hawk's speed bonus needs toning down. I've seen some guys zip around at speeds of 40+ when their normal speed is 25.


Wow.

-Screens are getting a double nerf.....may as well just remove them?

- In competitive games, KR/PR is balanced just about perfectly. Why are we making this change? Are we just trying to remove any fun from games? Currently special teams has at least the *possibility* to play a dramatic moment in a tight game....nerfing the returners means you may as well just click right through it. Terrible idea.

- I appear to be in the minority when I say that zone specialist is not over-powered.

- Nerfing Ball Hawk will certainly reward all of those 130 speed WRs. Awesome.



I have to say, I have great apprehension about the direction we are taking here.


What exactly are we trying to achieve?

Originally posted by tpaterniti
Screens in real life only work against heavy blitzing defenses. They are designed to take advantage of a D's aggressiveness when they blitz 6 or more. They should not be go-to plays against non-blitzing teams except in very rare situations.

A decent # of the West Coast O teams have been very effective using screens, whether against blitzes or standard Ds. However, in every one of my posts regarding screens, I think I've made it obvious that I agree that they shouldn't be go to plays ("In real football sense, 5 screens a game is about max a team can pull off" & "anything over 10 should be absolute suicide"), and I doubt you'll find many if any that feel stronger that something should be done to massively curtail them (personally think a real repeat play penalty is the way to go). However, if one is going to completely ruin them, why even have them in the PB as an option?

If blockers don't pick up DBs or LBs covering the HB and explode into the backfield untouched (running past the blockers that ignore them
And if the blockers aren't allowed down field (happens on every screen and absolutely never called)
And Outside Blocker doesn't apply.

Add all of that together and we have the typical over reaction that occurs far more than not...Let's not fix the problem. Let's create another one by going to the absolute extreme.

Originally posted by lots of people


CB's keep up with WR's far to easily. if I have 120 speed, and the CB has 80. I expect to burn that CB every time. Give Defenses a reason to play Safties over the top.




Okay, folks make this statement like they are quoting gospel, and it is simply not true.

Even CBs with 100 speed and 90 agility cannot cover the fast WRs without over-the-top help, and the 85/85 guys get destroyed.

The only thing that makes people think this is occurring is the fact that oftentimes the QB does not lead the WR adequately on deep routes.

Let's be real folks...those CBs get toasted on a regular basis.

Originally posted by tautology

Wow.

-Screens are getting a double nerf.....may as well just remove them?

- In competitive games, KR/PR is balanced just about perfectly. Why are we making this change? Are we just trying to remove any fun from games? Currently special teams has at least the *possibility* to play a dramatic moment in a tight game....nerfing the returners means you may as well just click right through it. Terrible idea.

- I appear to be in the minority when I say that zone specialist is not over-powered.

- Nerfing Ball Hawk will certainly reward all of those 130 speed WRs. Awesome.



I have to say, I have great apprehension about the direction we are taking here.


What exactly are we trying to achieve?

WOW!! If Taut has apprehension Bort needs to listen up. This is the first time I have ever seen Taut post anything negitive about the direction of GLB.

I agree with Taut. Taut for President of GLB