Warrior General Games

I think if it was a bit closer to programming, it would be easier.

What I mean is if we could create "functions" which were a set of outputs and apply that set of outputs to multiple inputs, that would help things out immensely.

That way, lets say you know on 1st down, 2nd and med, and 3rd and short, you want to do the same thing (maybe a bad example, just go with it for the moment). You create one Output set called "Base Offense" and in each of those Inputs, your Output is "Base Offense."

Then lets say you're going run-heavy 1 game in your Base Offense. The next game, you want to go pass-heavy. All you need to do is change 1 output (Base Offense) and it's changed for all those outputs.

The same could be said for things like when you just want to run heavy to run out the clock (maybe before the end of the half if you're WAY out of FG range, if you're up by 4+ scores with 7 mins left, 3+ scores with 5 mins left in the game, or 2+ scores with 2 mins left), you're going to want to do the same thing in all those situations. This could allow you again to control all that from one saved Output: "Run Out the Clock."

Originally posted by Bort
Hm, that makes sense Octowned.

What about also making separate pages for 1st quarter, 2nd quarter, etc? Would possibly make loading/saving quicker. I would have to do some finagling to get it working, but it's probably possible.

This is good. Right now having the entire AI on one page makes it a bit daunting, hard to keep track of and hard to go over to make sure there are no errors.

I'll go one further though. Sections and sub-sections.

5 main sections: Whole Game, First Quarter, Second Quarter, Third Quarter, Fourth Quarter, Overtime.

4 sub-sections in each of those: First Down, Second Down, Third Down, Fourth Down

Those would be a good start. Then give us the ability to make our own sub sections and you have AI programming become way easier to manage.

Originally posted by Bort
Hm, that makes sense Octowned.

What about also making separate pages for 1st quarter, 2nd quarter, etc? Would possibly make loading/saving quicker. I would have to do some finagling to get it working, but it's probably possible.

I don't know how to easy this would to implement without getting messy, but what I've wanted to see for quite some time was a "second half" option. I've always wanted to try an "if I'm losing, time to change my gameplan in the second half!" but I've never wanted to enter it into BOTH the third and fourth quarter settings.

I'm sure other people go even more in depth, and I'm not sure how half-half and quarter-..-quarter could co-exist without becoming too messy, though.

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I do like the idea of having like a generic "offensive AI" page, then individual pages for 1st-4th quarters. It would make things a lot quicker and easier to adjust with load time.

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Maybe a solution to the quarter-by-quarter vs half-half way would be to also be able to choose yourself either to go by quarters or by halfs. People who had AI on the 4 quarter method would keep it. I, personally, would switch to half-half. The 2nd/4th quarter stuff still applies, as "under 200 seconds" in the 4th is.. "under 200 seconds" in the second half. I dunno how necessary / overboard that is, though.

Oct: We could be allowed to start the AI completely fresh. The "default" options would be Whole Game. Then, the coordinator could choose to 'add' sections, in a similar fashion as they would add inputs/outputs (At the top of the AI, have an "add section" drop down menu) and be able to choose:

First Half
Second Half
First Quarter
Second Quarter
Third Quarter
Fourth Quarter

The quarter would override the half, which would override the whole game settings. Make sense?

Another thing, can we add "between" settings for time? And separate the time section into Minutes:Seconds


Can go "between" [4]min[30]seconds to [2]min[00] seconds

Wow, lots of good input from people doing a much better job of expressing things than I would have!

Originally posted by Jed
I think if it was a bit closer to programming, it would be easier.

What I mean is if we could create "functions" which were a set of outputs and apply that set of outputs to multiple inputs, that would help things out immensely.

Elegantly said and exactly what I'd love to see. This would make things sooo much easier to work with.

And if separating the AI into 5 pages reduces loadtimes then I'd be twice as happy!


A couple of smaller ideas to add which ought to be easy to implement, two for time savings and one for readability :
- I'd love to be able to "insert" an input halfway down my page of inputs without needing to bump it down fifty times.
- It may have been said before but the ability to "copy" one specific output and "paste" it in elsewhere would also speed up a lot of redundant entry.
- Even though it makes no difference in playcalling logic, it would be nice to be able to move outputs up or down within the set. That would allow us to pursue our own administrative conventions to make it easier to analyze what each set contains or lacks (e.g., order defensive outputs by personnel package from 4-3 to 3-1 or by coverage shell from Cover 0 to Cover 4, or order offensive outputs by formation type from I form to 5WR or by playcall from inside FB run to outside HB run to WR pass long). This would help folks review their tactics more easily to see if they've missed anything or inserted any bad calls that don't fit the situation.

hell yes

I'd just like to throw in that the way the playbook works is AWESOME! I have a list of my playbooks, I can load one, edit it, save it, or from the front screen make a pre-created playbook the active one. The ability to do this with AI (and preferably with depth chart) would be great. I don't mean to in any way take away from the great ideas in this thread, just wanted to throw this in in case some changes are being done to AI.

I love Jed's way of describing it, rather than a set of outputs for each input, the ability to "call a function" would be great. There are plenty of circumstances where I am aiming for short yardage, long yardage, whatever, and the ability to design my AI for a desired outcome and then call it whenever I want to try to achieve that outcome rather than having to recreate the 4-8 play calls each time would be awesome.

I think I understand what's being said... This suggestion requests the ability to save a group of outputs (For example, the 5 outputs you use on 1st and 10) so that you can insert them to another input (For example, an input for 1st and 5). This is a great idea, and I'd actually like to take it a step further if it has not been already...

I think the ability to save individual outputs as opposed to a grouping of them would be a godsend. Then, when I go to my inputs, I have the ability to select from a drop down menu the exact outputs I want, and they are automatically updated. Setup = One time only. Repetition = Gone!

And, if there's an output that I haven't created and isn't in my drop down menu, all I have to do is make a new one and it's there. Money in the bank!

Originally posted by sully
I think I understand what's being said... This suggestion requests the ability to save a group of outputs (For example, the 5 outputs you use on 1st and 10) so that you can insert them to another input (For example, an input for 1st and 5). This is a great idea, and I'd actually like to take it a step further if it has not been already...

I think the ability to save individual outputs as opposed to a grouping of them would be a godsend. Then, when I go to my inputs, I have the ability to select from a drop down menu the exact outputs I want, and they are automatically updated. Setup = One time only. Repetition = Gone!

And, if there's an output that I haven't created and isn't in my drop down menu, all I have to do is make a new one and it's there. Money in the bank!

Yup, the latter is being discussed in this topic as well, and is the biggest necessity IMO.

Originally posted by Staz
Oct: We could be allowed to start the AI completely fresh. The "default" options would be Whole Game. Then, the coordinator could choose to 'add' sections, in a similar fashion as they would add inputs/outputs (At the top of the AI, have an "add section" drop down menu) and be able to choose:

First Half
Second Half
First Quarter
Second Quarter
Third Quarter
Fourth Quarter

The quarter would override the half, which would override the whole game settings. Make sense?

That's pretty good idea.

Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Staz

Oct: We could be allowed to start the AI completely fresh. The "default" options would be Whole Game. Then, the coordinator could choose to 'add' sections, in a similar fashion as they would add inputs/outputs (At the top of the AI, have an "add section" drop down menu) and be able to choose:

First Half
Second Half
First Quarter
Second Quarter
Third Quarter
Fourth Quarter

The quarter would override the half, which would override the whole game settings. Make sense?

That's pretty good idea.

Very nice - and each with their own page, with saveable outputs we can call from a drop down list if we want *drools*

I started a new topic on this (shouldnt have)

but what about a drag and drop idea to rearrange your inputs.

I just spent 3 hrs moving up inputs to put them in a better order so i can adjust them easier in between games

We could just click on the input and drag it above or below the input you want it to be by

Summary:

Add to bottom - NEEDED
Second half - needed
Individual pages per quarter - would be nice
Savable outputs (inside run, etc, then pull from a drop-down menu) - needed
Savable "packages" (a package of outputs you can use on all 4th and shorts, etc) - would be nice
drag and drop - would be nice

Extended / recap because Bort was in here 1.5 months ago, maybe he forgot he liked these ideas...

We need to be able to add a new output to the bottom of the AI, not to the top. It is sooooooooo annoying to want to add a fourth quarter basic AI, but have to put it under my other 50 logic checks for late in the game. The clicking down HUNDREDS OF TIMES with lag is just absurd.

I think the biggest thing we need is saveable outputs.. Allow users to define outputs such as "inside run powerback" in a different screen, then just call on that play in the playbook via a pulldown menu that auto-fills in the boxes.

The second thing I'd like is being able to clump outputs into a "package" for example "pass." You could customize all of the plays with which TE you want, who runs the routes, etc., get all of the %s together, and then just save it all as one big chunk you call "pass." Then in your AI you can say 50% pass first down, 25% pass second and long, etc., and it will just follow the package to the individual AI stuff and modify the %s there.

You could also use a "short yardage" package for 3rd and short, 4th and short, 3rd and medium when you know you have a 4th and short coming up, backed into your own goal, and on the goal line. This comes up what, 15 times in a good AI? So when you gameplan, open up your short yardage package, change from strong I to singleback based and your scouting, and bam, you're done.

Another thing I have is a "last ditch effort" which shows up about 10 times but I never even bother to change, basically the long pass I want to do if we're out of timeouts, under 0:15, 4th and long, end of half, etc.

Then, if we had individual pages for each quarter, that'd be nice. An option "by half" or "by quarters" would be nice as well. Personally I'd use halfs, an option I don't have right now.

Lastly, among each quarter, it would be nice to view your AI in a simple list, which only lists the inputs not outputs. You can use arrows much like adjusting your depth chart to move everything around and then click "save."

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Okay, hopefully Bort stumbles in here. The entire AI interface could use a lot of work, and actually encourage users to make a good AI instead of be scared of how huge of a pain in the ass it is to change anything once it is set up.

What ever happened to this?