Im actually thinking about creating a team with a very fast scarmbling QB, and a very fast running back. I was thinking about creating two blocking wide receivers and trying this out first hand. Ill let you guys know how it goes
mmerc
offline
offline
Originally posted by spartanp1
Im actually thinking about creating a team with a very fast scarmbling QB, and a very fast running back. I was thinking about creating two blocking wide receivers and trying this out first hand. Ill let you guys know how it goes
Great Idea!! Build a super fast QB with some huge blocking WR's and you should be off to the races. Please do let us know.
Im actually thinking about creating a team with a very fast scarmbling QB, and a very fast running back. I was thinking about creating two blocking wide receivers and trying this out first hand. Ill let you guys know how it goes
Great Idea!! Build a super fast QB with some huge blocking WR's and you should be off to the races. Please do let us know.
Donner
offline
offline
Originally posted by Popes
I have gathered a good amount of information on blocking WRs, which I am now able to share.
My background (so you know I'm not talking out my arse):
In the middle of season 2, I became OC for a USA BBB team (Chicago Commandos: http://goallineblitz.com/game/team.pl?team_id=1457). I created a blocking WR and spent the remainder of the season watching him on all running plays and experimenting with the effect he'd have on the running game.
Fortunately, the previous owner of a Canadian AA team (Kamloops Nittany Dodgers: http://goallineblitz.com/game/team.pl?team_id=236 - has since moved up to AAA) allowed me to take over as OC for season 3 and test my theory that an entire offense built around blocking WRs could be highly effective.
Over the course of that season and a half, I have watched over 1200 plays looking specifically at how the blocking WRs perform. More than 1000 of those plays had 2-4 blocking WRs on the field at once. The conclusions that follow are what I've come to believe from that film study.
Note: I gave up all OC duties at the conclusion of season 3. Therefore, I know nothing about the new offensive AI and new WR formations. My observations below are based on season 3 options/formations (for example, I usually put the best blocking WR I had in the #1 spot, because he'd usually line up on the right, where most runs go).
Also note, by "blocking WR", I mean a WR who has raised his strength/blocking to levels high enough to have caused a detriment to himself in the passing game. A regular WR who has trained his blocking up to 20 is not a "blocking WR", though he is surely a WR who will have some success while blocking. I mean WR who have devoted significant XP to Strength and Blocking, to the detriment of his Speed, Agility, and Catching.
My WRs (current attributes):
Zephaniah Seashore: 44 STR, 55 BLK
Stepfret Peterson: 32 STR, 40.1 BLK
Dax Axling: 31 STR, 40.01 BLK
[the other two blocking WRs from Kamloops that you'll see in the examples are Stickyhands and Monroe - I will not give their current attributes]
-------------------------
CONCLUSIONS (I'll list my reasoning below - this is a quick list of conclusions for those who just want the end result, not all the explanation):
1. Having one blocking WR on a team is probably not useful. The additional benefit to the running game is mostly offset by the detriment to the passing game.
2. Blocking is more important than Strength for blocking WRs. In fact, too much Strength (pancakes) is often detrimental to the running game.
3. Effect of Blocking level:
20 = will sometimes hold block long enough for HB to utilize it
30 = will usually hold block long enough for HB to utilize it
40 = will ALMOST ALWAYS hold block long enough for HB to utilize it (even 10+ seconds)
4. Blocking WRs assist the running game in two ways: holding one or more DBs in place and creating a wall that defenders have a hard time getting around.
5. A team with all blocking WRs is probably not worth it.
-------------------------
Reasoning:
CONCLUSION 1. Having one blocking WR on a team is probably not useful. The additional benefit to the running game is mostly offset by the detriment to the passing game.
This was the conclusion I reached at the end of season 2 with my single blocking WR on Chicago. The main reason the benefit to the running game was not as much as I had hoped was because the other WRs on the team were not good enough blockers to consistently hold their men in place. The reason is that a blocking WR will hold his guy in place, unless a free defender passes close by, in which case he will sometimes drop his guy and try to block that guy. On a team with multiple blocking WRs, where each can hold their guy long, no problem. On a team with one blocking WR, that limits his effectiveness. Here are some examples of plays where the WR drops his guy and it seems to be purely because another defender got close to him:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=4064689
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=4064803
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=4163729 (watch Retired Player when the LB passes)
CONCLUSION 2. Blocking is more important than Strength for blocking WRs. In fact, too much Strength (pancakes) is often detrimental to the running game.
I have read many of blocking WR threads and everyone assumes more strength and less blocking is the way to go. I thought so too, at first. The logic is simple enough (o-line logic): Strength (pancakes) is better for run blocking, while Blocking (holding defender in place) is better for pass-blocking. It's logical to assume the same holds true for blocking WRs, but it doesn't. The reason is because the WRs are usually blocking far away from the HB, whereas lineman are blocking and pancaking guys closer to the HB.
I have watched WR pancake after WR pancake kill good runs. When a WR pancakes his CB right off the line, he then leaves to go block another player. In the meantime, the pancaked CB often gets up and makes the tackle on the HB, who's just now approaching the place where the blocking happened (way on the outside). I have seen many plays where the pancaked player gets up and makes the tackle. When the WR has adequate Blocking and not too much Strength, he will hold the defender essentially forever, allowing the HB to utilize the block, even if he started far away when the block was executed (which is often the case).
Also, a pancake nullifies another useful feature of blocking WRs (the wall; see conclusion 4).
Now I'm not saying that the WR pancaking his guy and moving on to block another defender is never helpful, because sometimes it is. But after watching 1200 WR blocking plays, I can tell you that I found that it killed plays much more than it helped them. Examples of this principle in action:
Pancaked DB gets up and makes the tackle:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=7698189
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=9134272
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=5906683
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=5908828
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=7336244
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=7695851
Pancaked DB gets up and could have made the tackle (but tackle was broken):
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=7694149
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=7698171
Pancaked DB gets up and was very close to making the tackle:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=7697844
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=8067504
CONCLUSION 3. Effect of Blocking level:
20 = will sometimes hold block long enough for HB to utilize it
30 = will usually hold block long enough for HB to utilize it
40 = will ALMOST ALWAYS hold block long enough for HB to utilize it (often 10 seconds or more)
This is my observation after watching all of those plays. During my Season 3 testing, my team had 5 blocking WRs of varying Blocking levels (ranging from 20 to 40). The Blocking # directly correlated with the number of seconds that the WR would hold his block. By mid-season, I could watch a play, see how long each WR held his block, and correctly identify who each WR was, without having to mouse-over him to see the player's name.
Examples:
Seashore (STR = 40) occupies his guy for 5 full seconds:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=6624348
Seashore (STR = 40) and Peterson (STR = 37.65) hold as long as the HB requires:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=6624606
Seashore (STR = 40) holds for 5 seconds while Stickyhands (STR = 25.08) holds for 3 seconds: http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=6625222
[I wish I had more examples on this; all of my examples are taken from post-game highlight reels I wrote up for the team and I just didn't talk about this issue much with the team, though it was extremely consistent in my video-watching]
CONCLUSION 4. Blocking WRs assist the running game in two ways: holding one or more DBs in place and creating a wall that defenders have a hard time getting around.
The wall is a surprise benefit. I have watched play after play where a WR simply needs to block one DB and he will effectively take 2-4 defenders out of the play. This is both because the secondary defenders get caught up in the block (like a spider-web) and because they will often choose the less optimal path to avoid the blocking, thereby taking themselves out of the play. This is another reason a pancake is detrimental. The blocking WR will pancake his guy and immediately move on looking for another guy, which removes this useful wall for the HB to use.
Examples of blocking more than one at a time:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=7336904
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=8782481
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=7695768
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=7337394
Examples of a blocking WR essentially creating a wall for the HB to utilize:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=12332109 [Yeah Bedford, I put you in my Guide as the hapless defenders! Of course, that play was the entirety of my highlight reel for the Championship Game
]
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=6624606
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=8422665
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=5906738
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=7336065
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=11978585
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=11978657
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=11980185
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=11980317
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=8422173
CONCLUSION 5. A team with all blocking WRs is probably not worth it.
Kamloops went 16-0 and was an unstoppable running machine. We ran between 80-90% of the time. I was convinced our "secret weapon" of blocking WRs would allow us to upset the one team we faced that was better than us (the Bedford Rats in the Canadian AA#1 Championship Game). They handled us easily.
After a season's worth of running an all blocking WRs offense, I came to the conclusion that, while it definitely enhanced our running game, it was not enough to offset the hit we took in the passing game. If we had built regular WRs and spent out SP on regular receiving abilities, I believe we'd have still gone 16-0 and lost to Bedford in the Championship Game, and maybe would have had a better chance to beat them with our passing game.
Fun experiment, though! Thanks to the Kamloops Nittany Dodgers for allowing me one season to test it out!
I hope this serves as a contribution to the game for those toying around with WR blocking.
- Popes
I'm surprised that I've never read this before Popes, but it sure bring back memories.
I have gathered a good amount of information on blocking WRs, which I am now able to share.
My background (so you know I'm not talking out my arse):
In the middle of season 2, I became OC for a USA BBB team (Chicago Commandos: http://goallineblitz.com/game/team.pl?team_id=1457). I created a blocking WR and spent the remainder of the season watching him on all running plays and experimenting with the effect he'd have on the running game.
Fortunately, the previous owner of a Canadian AA team (Kamloops Nittany Dodgers: http://goallineblitz.com/game/team.pl?team_id=236 - has since moved up to AAA) allowed me to take over as OC for season 3 and test my theory that an entire offense built around blocking WRs could be highly effective.
Over the course of that season and a half, I have watched over 1200 plays looking specifically at how the blocking WRs perform. More than 1000 of those plays had 2-4 blocking WRs on the field at once. The conclusions that follow are what I've come to believe from that film study.
Note: I gave up all OC duties at the conclusion of season 3. Therefore, I know nothing about the new offensive AI and new WR formations. My observations below are based on season 3 options/formations (for example, I usually put the best blocking WR I had in the #1 spot, because he'd usually line up on the right, where most runs go).
Also note, by "blocking WR", I mean a WR who has raised his strength/blocking to levels high enough to have caused a detriment to himself in the passing game. A regular WR who has trained his blocking up to 20 is not a "blocking WR", though he is surely a WR who will have some success while blocking. I mean WR who have devoted significant XP to Strength and Blocking, to the detriment of his Speed, Agility, and Catching.
My WRs (current attributes):
Zephaniah Seashore: 44 STR, 55 BLK
Stepfret Peterson: 32 STR, 40.1 BLK
Dax Axling: 31 STR, 40.01 BLK
[the other two blocking WRs from Kamloops that you'll see in the examples are Stickyhands and Monroe - I will not give their current attributes]
-------------------------
CONCLUSIONS (I'll list my reasoning below - this is a quick list of conclusions for those who just want the end result, not all the explanation):
1. Having one blocking WR on a team is probably not useful. The additional benefit to the running game is mostly offset by the detriment to the passing game.
2. Blocking is more important than Strength for blocking WRs. In fact, too much Strength (pancakes) is often detrimental to the running game.
3. Effect of Blocking level:
20 = will sometimes hold block long enough for HB to utilize it
30 = will usually hold block long enough for HB to utilize it
40 = will ALMOST ALWAYS hold block long enough for HB to utilize it (even 10+ seconds)
4. Blocking WRs assist the running game in two ways: holding one or more DBs in place and creating a wall that defenders have a hard time getting around.
5. A team with all blocking WRs is probably not worth it.
-------------------------
Reasoning:
CONCLUSION 1. Having one blocking WR on a team is probably not useful. The additional benefit to the running game is mostly offset by the detriment to the passing game.
This was the conclusion I reached at the end of season 2 with my single blocking WR on Chicago. The main reason the benefit to the running game was not as much as I had hoped was because the other WRs on the team were not good enough blockers to consistently hold their men in place. The reason is that a blocking WR will hold his guy in place, unless a free defender passes close by, in which case he will sometimes drop his guy and try to block that guy. On a team with multiple blocking WRs, where each can hold their guy long, no problem. On a team with one blocking WR, that limits his effectiveness. Here are some examples of plays where the WR drops his guy and it seems to be purely because another defender got close to him:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=4064689
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=4064803
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=4163729 (watch Retired Player when the LB passes)
CONCLUSION 2. Blocking is more important than Strength for blocking WRs. In fact, too much Strength (pancakes) is often detrimental to the running game.
I have read many of blocking WR threads and everyone assumes more strength and less blocking is the way to go. I thought so too, at first. The logic is simple enough (o-line logic): Strength (pancakes) is better for run blocking, while Blocking (holding defender in place) is better for pass-blocking. It's logical to assume the same holds true for blocking WRs, but it doesn't. The reason is because the WRs are usually blocking far away from the HB, whereas lineman are blocking and pancaking guys closer to the HB.
I have watched WR pancake after WR pancake kill good runs. When a WR pancakes his CB right off the line, he then leaves to go block another player. In the meantime, the pancaked CB often gets up and makes the tackle on the HB, who's just now approaching the place where the blocking happened (way on the outside). I have seen many plays where the pancaked player gets up and makes the tackle. When the WR has adequate Blocking and not too much Strength, he will hold the defender essentially forever, allowing the HB to utilize the block, even if he started far away when the block was executed (which is often the case).
Also, a pancake nullifies another useful feature of blocking WRs (the wall; see conclusion 4).
Now I'm not saying that the WR pancaking his guy and moving on to block another defender is never helpful, because sometimes it is. But after watching 1200 WR blocking plays, I can tell you that I found that it killed plays much more than it helped them. Examples of this principle in action:
Pancaked DB gets up and makes the tackle:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=7698189
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=9134272
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=5906683
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=5908828
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=7336244
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=7695851
Pancaked DB gets up and could have made the tackle (but tackle was broken):
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=7694149
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=7698171
Pancaked DB gets up and was very close to making the tackle:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=7697844
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=8067504
CONCLUSION 3. Effect of Blocking level:
20 = will sometimes hold block long enough for HB to utilize it
30 = will usually hold block long enough for HB to utilize it
40 = will ALMOST ALWAYS hold block long enough for HB to utilize it (often 10 seconds or more)
This is my observation after watching all of those plays. During my Season 3 testing, my team had 5 blocking WRs of varying Blocking levels (ranging from 20 to 40). The Blocking # directly correlated with the number of seconds that the WR would hold his block. By mid-season, I could watch a play, see how long each WR held his block, and correctly identify who each WR was, without having to mouse-over him to see the player's name.
Examples:
Seashore (STR = 40) occupies his guy for 5 full seconds:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=6624348
Seashore (STR = 40) and Peterson (STR = 37.65) hold as long as the HB requires:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=6624606
Seashore (STR = 40) holds for 5 seconds while Stickyhands (STR = 25.08) holds for 3 seconds: http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=6625222
[I wish I had more examples on this; all of my examples are taken from post-game highlight reels I wrote up for the team and I just didn't talk about this issue much with the team, though it was extremely consistent in my video-watching]
CONCLUSION 4. Blocking WRs assist the running game in two ways: holding one or more DBs in place and creating a wall that defenders have a hard time getting around.
The wall is a surprise benefit. I have watched play after play where a WR simply needs to block one DB and he will effectively take 2-4 defenders out of the play. This is both because the secondary defenders get caught up in the block (like a spider-web) and because they will often choose the less optimal path to avoid the blocking, thereby taking themselves out of the play. This is another reason a pancake is detrimental. The blocking WR will pancake his guy and immediately move on looking for another guy, which removes this useful wall for the HB to use.
Examples of blocking more than one at a time:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=7336904
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=8782481
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=7695768
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=7337394
Examples of a blocking WR essentially creating a wall for the HB to utilize:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=12332109 [Yeah Bedford, I put you in my Guide as the hapless defenders! Of course, that play was the entirety of my highlight reel for the Championship Game
]http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=6624606
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=8422665
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=5906738
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=7336065
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=11978585
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=11978657
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=11980185
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=11980317
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?pbp_id=8422173
CONCLUSION 5. A team with all blocking WRs is probably not worth it.
Kamloops went 16-0 and was an unstoppable running machine. We ran between 80-90% of the time. I was convinced our "secret weapon" of blocking WRs would allow us to upset the one team we faced that was better than us (the Bedford Rats in the Canadian AA#1 Championship Game). They handled us easily.
After a season's worth of running an all blocking WRs offense, I came to the conclusion that, while it definitely enhanced our running game, it was not enough to offset the hit we took in the passing game. If we had built regular WRs and spent out SP on regular receiving abilities, I believe we'd have still gone 16-0 and lost to Bedford in the Championship Game, and maybe would have had a better chance to beat them with our passing game.
Fun experiment, though! Thanks to the Kamloops Nittany Dodgers for allowing me one season to test it out!
I hope this serves as a contribution to the game for those toying around with WR blocking.
- Popes
I'm surprised that I've never read this before Popes, but it sure bring back memories.
Popes
offline
offline
Originally posted by Donner
I'm surprised that I've never read this before Popes, but it sure bring back memories.
Donner, thanks for the comment. Memories, indeed. I am about 20 seasons removed from the game (I pop in once or twice a year to take a look at this thread). Seeing your comment got me remembering. We spent that entire year just gearing up to meet you in the Championship, because we knew we were the hands-down favorite in our conference. We were so excited that we had the secret weapon to upset you and you just crushed us.
Good times!
I'm surprised that I've never read this before Popes, but it sure bring back memories.
Donner, thanks for the comment. Memories, indeed. I am about 20 seasons removed from the game (I pop in once or twice a year to take a look at this thread). Seeing your comment got me remembering. We spent that entire year just gearing up to meet you in the Championship, because we knew we were the hands-down favorite in our conference. We were so excited that we had the secret weapon to upset you and you just crushed us.
Good times!
StuperDave
offline
offline
Originally posted by Popes
Donner, thanks for the comment. Memories, indeed. I am about 20 seasons removed from the game (I pop in once or twice a year to take a look at this thread). Seeing your comment got me remembering. We spent that entire year just gearing up to meet you in the Championship, because we knew we were the hands-down favorite in our conference. We were so excited that we had the secret weapon to upset you and you just crushed us.
Good times!
Yes, I was on Popes team when we were doing this (I was the fullback), and we had a hellova running game, of course (and a "pass only in emergencies" type of offense)
I am surprised that I did not come across this post until now. I know that on our team forum spoke of the blocking WR alot in strategy sessions. Makes me feel like seeing if some team would like to try something like this again to see if a run dominated team can go far like we did 20+ seasons ago, or if the AI has changed so much that this strategy wouldn't be that effective
Donner, thanks for the comment. Memories, indeed. I am about 20 seasons removed from the game (I pop in once or twice a year to take a look at this thread). Seeing your comment got me remembering. We spent that entire year just gearing up to meet you in the Championship, because we knew we were the hands-down favorite in our conference. We were so excited that we had the secret weapon to upset you and you just crushed us.
Good times!
Yes, I was on Popes team when we were doing this (I was the fullback), and we had a hellova running game, of course (and a "pass only in emergencies" type of offense)
I am surprised that I did not come across this post until now. I know that on our team forum spoke of the blocking WR alot in strategy sessions. Makes me feel like seeing if some team would like to try something like this again to see if a run dominated team can go far like we did 20+ seasons ago, or if the AI has changed so much that this strategy wouldn't be that effective
southsux926
offline
offline
i'm making a blocking WR as one of my free players. my idea is that on a run heavy team he can just maul CBs and reduce their energy because few CBs are built for the run game.
any suggestions for VAs/ SAs? i'm going with hands and maybe cut block. any other suggestions?
any suggestions for VAs/ SAs? i'm going with hands and maybe cut block. any other suggestions?
You are not logged in. Please log in if you want to post a reply.
