Warrior General Games

ill concede we didn't have the builds completely fine tuned .. the INT builds are def better today than what we did, we weren't entirely sure what the min level of attributes necessary still when maxing Catch (ie, str, tackle, conf, etc)

the fundamental problem is the sim hasn't changed in years and the meta has taken over. and it's not gonna change so ppl can either accept that or speak with their flex and move on.

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
Should be 70 or 80 catching tbph. Why should a guy with 60 catching get 10 INTs/season against competitive builds? Also I doubt the test server had whole well designed teams with top GLB defensive schemes installed.

ee had one of the best INT defenses in WL at the time we were on the server so the schemes weren't bad by any means. Most builds were between 60-70 catching. I didn't go all out with a bunch of LHF type builds with 90 catching because those sort of secondaries would have been absolutely destroyed by the fake advantage before the final run of sim changes Catch pushed through on fakes.

Most the interception builds were modeled after whatever Lovie's interception build looked like at the time. All I remember is that it was build had mid 60's catching and INT% AEQ.

we tested with stacked INT% but that wasn't super common place in the real game; folks still felt stacking %deflect was necessary. that's truly not the case, and more and more folks have caught on. fwiw i do feel stack %int is measurably better than single %int

Originally posted by bhall43
Most the interception builds were modeled after whatever Lovie's interception build looked like at the time. All I remember is that it was build had mid 60's catching and INT% AEQ.

look guys, I'm sure you did the best job testing you could at the time. Though it is clear that defenses and INT builds have improved on that, and that there are clearly too many INTs in competitive top level games now as a results of INTs being overtuned and then afk'd before builds/defenses could catch up.

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
Not sure what season that is from, but 1 game tearing up my team's pass defense, does not mean that the cold hard numbers/facts are refuted.

S34 fwiw. And the cold hard facts are that people can't just pass ridiculously like that with no regard for the defense they are playing anymore. That sort of passing forced the current meta.

But like ee said. The game has just been stuck in the mud so long now that the meta's are what you get.

its pretty simple actually. the components of the sim ppl hate - bhall did. the components that ppl like - i did.

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
#1 the only reason the Hedgehogs weren't a "WL Contender" is because our DC ragequitted GLB two games into last season unfortunately
I'm pretty sure that failing to reach 20 points in five games had more to do with it than changing defensive coordinators.

Originally posted by
#2 Our QB threw 36 INTs in season 39 in WL, so if I was going to make a rage-filled super bias anti-INT post with sweet statistics, that would have been a more fitting time tbh.
No, because in s39 you were outright embarrassed by being awful at everything. The reason you just started complaining about turnovers last season after defending them when they were helping you win is that you view those 34 interceptions as the reason you demoted. You believe that if not for that game mechanic, you would have stayed up.

Originally posted by
I honestly didn't even notice we had 34 INTs last season as it didn't feel like that many. 17 came in a bad bad 3-game stretch midseason
And that's exactly when you starting posting your complaints. Look, I'm glad that you're admitting that I was correct all along, but you should be able to acknowledge that you argued the complete opposite position a few seasons back when turnovers were helping you. We're all pissing in the wind anyway because Bort obviously isn't making more changes.

Interceptions are good for the game when they happen 0-3 times per game. They're bad for the game when they happen 5+ times due to a turnover cascade because it overrides everything else about the game. Maybe Bort doesn't even know what in his code makes mass-turnover games more common than they statistically should be, but if he does then getting rid of it would make the sim better. I've also long advocated decreasing the role of momentum in fumble forcing, then compensating by adding a strip fumble attempt based on tackling vs carrying with their requisite VA and AEQ modifiers. He apparently listened and added it for GLB2, but it really needed to exist in GLB1.

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
look guys, I'm sure you did the best job testing you could at the time. Though it is clear that defenses and INT builds have improved on that, and that there are clearly too many INTs in competitive top level games now as a results of INTs being overtuned and then afk'd before builds/defenses could catch up.

I was just clearing up the misinformation that int builds weren't tested. I don't currently see your problem with them. There are certainly ways of gameplanning yourself around them if you care to do so. And I am not talking about throwing all screens and running the ball 100% of the time either.

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
Should be 70 or 80 catching tbph. Why should a guy with 60 catching get 10 INTs/season against competitive builds?
Because when jumping a route you're sufficiently far from the offensive player for it to flag as uncontested. That's why HBs with ~60 catching can catch such a high percentage of passes when using the routes that are difficult for defenders to cover.

Originally posted by bhall43
I was just clearing up the misinformation that int builds weren't tested. I don't currently see your problem with them. There are certainly ways of gameplanning yourself around them if you care to do so. And I am not talking about throwing all screens and running the ball 100% of the time either.
Yes, certain routes have a much higher interception chance than others. WR2 routes seem to suffer them significantly more than any other WR.

Depends on what WR2 routes you speak of. Different routes, builds, and route run settings do different things. There really is a lot of fun things a guy can set up if he runs the entire WR, TE, HB, FB, QB core and can mess with everyones settings from game to game. When you don't have perfect control over all that and people aren't around enough to screw with it all it just becomes a huge pain in the ass to do game to game. So you just run with one string of plays and hope nobody catches on defensively all season.

And people think 65 confidence on QB's is enough to stop morale spirals?

There are other factors to consider also. A receiver, with the exception of HB/FB, maybe, is rarely seen breaking multiple tackles to take a reception for a long gain. Whereas on a running play, it's pretty common to see multiple D Dots shrink allowing a sweep to break for a long gain/TD.

On the flip side, few teams trying to pass as their primary offense are using Pass Blocking Archetype O line for the entire line, which of course allows more hurries/sacks and I"m sure other situations where the pass quality is reduced allowing for a higher interception rate.

Dr. is right. Old schoolers know that pass arch and tough WR's were the standard. Math dictates run now with power through and spin. End of days will turn that clock back as well as a few other young teams