Warrior General Games

Originally posted by reddogrw
the problem is those same CB's, with 60 tackling and little strength can tackle well with the right VA's - perhaps if penalized more on the tackling end they would have to build more balanced

Yep - yet I'm advocating the other side of the ball making more of a difference to control the reception - don't care whether they get tackled immediately or not, the point is to catch the fricking ball, not perform a bunch of fakes to get open, only to let a more aggressive player get the rock. Length, long reach, jumping, etc... make it tough for a short little shit to get to YOUR ball...

Oh, and after reading some more of thread, yes, I agree with jd in the statement that you don't need a pass archetype built OL - excepting LOT - and that 100+ strength, and 92+ blocking and agility with proper positional SA / VA / AEQ will produce beastly lines... really, I think Bort was an OL in youth as they seem to control the LOS consistently (although I've seen some nasty DTs and DEs that can really reek havoc)

Fake WRs are sexy to OCs.Real good possesion Wrs are mis-used.They usually get their looks after the rTE and fake Wrs fail on 1st 2nd down.

Originally posted by NorDoor
Fake WRs are sexy to OCs.Real good possesion Wrs are mis-used.They usually get their looks after the rTE and fake Wrs fail on 1st 2nd down.

The routes and progressions usually matter more than the WR running it.

Originally posted by DarkRogue
The routes and progressions usually matter more than the WR running it.

Maybe, as you definitely want to target WRs on breaks - but the OP does have a point that CBs might actually be built better to catch than receivers...

I DO know that a well built, big, possession receiver, on good routes that keep defender behind him, WILL keep receptions up and INTs down...

What I don't know is how many times it will work before the D adjusts...

I'd like to know more than I do...

Originally posted by AlBarsch
um, defensive dots that specialize in INT SHOULD make INTs... what needs to happen is for WR to counter with more possession skills... for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction
Most interceptions come when jumping the route, in which case the WR's build is irrelevant.

Originally posted by reddogrw
so maybe ok at LT with the pass blocker archetype and that's about it?

I dunno OT's are the biggest pancakers of the oline. Not sure I would give that up for the arch. Would be different if blitzing LB's were still amazing and you needed that super agility monster over there but those days are looooong gone.

Originally posted by NorDoor
Fake WRs are sexy to OCs.Real good possesion Wrs are mis-used.They usually get their looks after the rTE and fake Wrs fail on 1st 2nd down.

That is cuz you put an INT corner on a Real good Possession WR and hes absolutely ded because

Originally posted by jdbolick

Most interceptions come when jumping the route, in which case the WR's build is irrelevant.


Fake WR's are so good because they can perform a Juke move and separate themselves coming across the field and getting away from that shit. Though that can also work in reverse going deep as well putting the CB between the QB and the WR if you haven't separated enough.

the way ints cbs are built, they would make better wrs than the wrs they are guarding lol.

plus qbs cant change the way they throw base on situation. they are stuck with one setting for the rest of the game.

The answer is to make CBs with low strength and tackling as terrible at tackling as you'd think they should be. Then building INT CBs would represent an actual tradeoff. Right now there is very little risk because you can VA your way to solid tackling even with poor strength and tackling.

Originally posted by tpaterniti
The answer is to make CBs with low strength and tackling as terrible at tackling as you'd think they should be. Then building INT CBs would represent an actual tradeoff. Right now there is very little risk because you can VA your way to solid tackling even with poor strength and tackling.

This. CB can easily get 60 tackling and 70 plus catching and DvG + Sure tackler their way to 80-90% tackle rates.

Originally posted by AlBarsch
um, defensive dots that specialize in INT SHOULD make INTs...
for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction

I agree with this, however it should not be as prevalent as they are. GLB when it was INT-Free was stupid, but by the same token too many INTs is stupid as well. Either the "aggressive" tactic should go back to the old ways where you can "overjump" a route and leave a WR open, or INTs should be nerfed some so they either aren't as prevalent, or CBs need to allocate more resources to successfully INT.

Hell, even a WR slider where 1 side of the slider is "STOP INTS" and the other side of the slider is "CATCH THE BALL" would SOMETHING (giving either a boost to swatting down INTs, or a boost to catch score).

Currently in WL only 1 team averages more than 2 passing TDs/Game

Of the 10 teams that average more than 1.5 passing TDs/Game, only 5 have more TDs than INTs, and only 1 has twice-or-more as many TDs as INTs.

WRs

Yes dots should do what they are made for, but OCs are so scared to pass the ball and especially pass to wide receivers, that the entire class of players is being punished and unable to "do what they were made to do".


Only 2 of the top 10 in recieving yards in the World League are WRs.
Only 5 of the top 20.
Zero in the top 5.

WL OC's are afraid to pass the ball and with good reason.

Originally posted by DarkRogue
This. CB can easily get 60 tackling and 70 plus catching and DvG + Sure tackler their way to 80-90% tackle rates.

Borts whole idea that CBs should 4 majors so they can cover multiple recievers while WRs should get 5 so they can't be too good, undoubtedly contributes to this problem.

Also I am not a fan at all of how balance is coded while making catches, since it makes it very difficult to break tackles right after the catch (and if you are putting a bunch of stuff into breaking tackles as a WR, you aren't going to have separation when you catch the ball.

Originally posted by Dr. E
There are other factors to consider also. A receiver, with the exception of HB/FB, maybe, is rarely seen breaking multiple tackles to take a reception for a long gain. Whereas on a running play, it's pretty common to see multiple D Dots shrink allowing a sweep to break for a long gain/TD.

On the flip side, few teams trying to pass as their primary offense are using Pass Blocking Archetype O line for the entire line, which of course allows more hurries/sacks and I"m sure other situations where the pass quality is reduced allowing for a higher interception rate.

As far as breaking tackles, the thing is...

1. WRs/TEs have less SPs to play with due to 5-major attributes, so it is especially difficult to put substantial resources into breaking tackles while maintaining any ability to get open or win catch-pd battles.
2. Even if you catch it and have VA stacks rolling, it is still especially hard to break tackles due to how bort coded "balance" after catching the ball. Dots often need a few ticks to get their balance score back to normal, and by that time they've already been tackled with a lackluster break tackle score.
3. On the flip side, Bort has +75% ffum prevention in "Mr. Reliable" for no reason at all on 1st/2nd down, so any FFUM players have a TON of problems forcing fumbles on WR's/TE's.

Pass block ARCH olinemen are worse at blocking DTs on pass plays than Run black ARCH guys. Maybe it's due to size (which compliments DT/C/G strength), or the fact that the additional agility is wasted in small spaces, but my 160 spd, 93 agi guards and centers do a much better job than the 150 spd/103 agi or 145 spd, 108 agility guys, who get revcaked all day vs everyone on pass plays.

Either arch-type can work at OT, personally I'm a fan of the spd-agi equip split regardless to counter tech man, unless you just want him to be primarily a run blocker.