Originally posted by Serg2108
With this many changes are we getting a VA reset?
With this many changes are we getting a VA reset?
Forum > Test Server Discussion > Season 31 - things we're testing
bhall43
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Originally posted by snakes22
The reason I say SA is cuz I don't like the idea of flipping it off and on with a switch. Should be something a qb is built to do or not
^ for DCs sake
The reason I say that it shouldn't be an SA is because its just kinda nonsensical and it just becomes the more important SA to add on. Also it still needs to be a tactic/oc option regardless as that is a huge difference in gameplanning.
The reason I say SA is cuz I don't like the idea of flipping it off and on with a switch. Should be something a qb is built to do or not
^ for DCs sake
The reason I say that it shouldn't be an SA is because its just kinda nonsensical and it just becomes the more important SA to add on. Also it still needs to be a tactic/oc option regardless as that is a huge difference in gameplanning.
jdbolick
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Originally posted by snakes22
Mechanics of reading the blitz and stuff is a good idea.
Giving these raw bonuses/penalties is a BAD idea. We already can get bonuses to these situations via Possession WR VA and Dump Pass SA. (Build issue not something u guys need to override IMO)
That's how it seems to me as well. They have to be careful to make short passing effective without making it unstoppable. If you can complete 5-7 yard passes 80+% of the time then what will defenses do?
Mechanics of reading the blitz and stuff is a good idea.
Giving these raw bonuses/penalties is a BAD idea. We already can get bonuses to these situations via Possession WR VA and Dump Pass SA. (Build issue not something u guys need to override IMO)
That's how it seems to me as well. They have to be careful to make short passing effective without making it unstoppable. If you can complete 5-7 yard passes 80+% of the time then what will defenses do?
bhall43
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Originally posted by jdbolick
That's how it seems to me as well. They have to be careful to make short passing effective without making it unstoppable. If you can complete 5-7 yard passes 80+% of the time then what will defenses do?
If the air mechanics work out. Defenses will not have to worry as much about deep passing being so awesome and can start stuffing more guys underneath in zones.
That's how it seems to me as well. They have to be careful to make short passing effective without making it unstoppable. If you can complete 5-7 yard passes 80+% of the time then what will defenses do?
If the air mechanics work out. Defenses will not have to worry as much about deep passing being so awesome and can start stuffing more guys underneath in zones.
jdbolick
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Originally posted by regoob2
It would be cool if the look off bonus varied based off the defenders aggressiveness.
That has long been my suggestion for pump fakes.
It would be cool if the look off bonus varied based off the defenders aggressiveness.
That has long been my suggestion for pump fakes.
jdbolick
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Originally posted by bhall43
If the air mechanics work out. Defenses will not have to worry as much about deep passing being so awesome and can start stuffing more guys underneath in zones.
With catch fakes being the way they are? lol. Bhall is clearly having too much input because the completion part of short passes absolutely didn't need any help beyond their timing. As a DC, I already had almost no chance of preventing a 5 yard completion if the QB threw it quickly. Possession Receiver is an extremely strong VA that has no defensive counter, but you're going to make short passes completed at an even higher percentage? That's crazy town. Fixing the timing of the throw on short routes is great, but please do not make them any easier to complete or you'll hardly ever see a punt.
If the air mechanics work out. Defenses will not have to worry as much about deep passing being so awesome and can start stuffing more guys underneath in zones.
With catch fakes being the way they are? lol. Bhall is clearly having too much input because the completion part of short passes absolutely didn't need any help beyond their timing. As a DC, I already had almost no chance of preventing a 5 yard completion if the QB threw it quickly. Possession Receiver is an extremely strong VA that has no defensive counter, but you're going to make short passes completed at an even higher percentage? That's crazy town. Fixing the timing of the throw on short routes is great, but please do not make them any easier to complete or you'll hardly ever see a punt.
jdbolick
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How is the 7 yard designation for bonuses determined? Under the assumption that it was measured from the line of scrimmage and only applied to passes that ended within that range (as opposed to all passes attempted while the receiver was still within 7 yards at the time of release), I got the following numbers from test game 6991: 40-9 -
84 total attempts of 7 yards or less
51 completions, or 60.7%
17 deflections, or 20.2%
6 bad passes (test game featured constant heavy blitzing)
6 knocked loose (10.5% of completed catches)
2 drops
1 incomplete pass
1 interception by a defender covering another player between the QB and the targeted receiver
Do these test WRs have the Possession WR VA? If so, those numbers look acceptable. I'll take a look at ee's other test game later. I did notice that there was still some tendency for the target to come back towards the pass, including one occasion where it caused a loss of 0.5 yards, but it wasn't common.
84 total attempts of 7 yards or less
51 completions, or 60.7%
17 deflections, or 20.2%
6 bad passes (test game featured constant heavy blitzing)
6 knocked loose (10.5% of completed catches)
2 drops
1 incomplete pass
1 interception by a defender covering another player between the QB and the targeted receiver
Do these test WRs have the Possession WR VA? If so, those numbers look acceptable. I'll take a look at ee's other test game later. I did notice that there was still some tendency for the target to come back towards the pass, including one occasion where it caused a loss of 0.5 yards, but it wasn't common.
Originally posted by jdbolick
With catch fakes being the way they are? lol. Bhall is clearly having too much input because the completion part of short passes absolutely didn't need any help beyond their timing. As a DC, I already had almost no chance of preventing a 5 yard completion if the QB threw it quickly. Possession Receiver is an extremely strong VA that has no defensive counter, but you're going to make short passes completed at an even higher percentage? That's crazy town. Fixing the timing of the throw on short routes is great, but please do not make them any easier to complete or you'll hardly ever see a punt.
seeing around 55-60% comp when the hot-read triggers on a blitz.
so then using a short passing package that forced progressions (mainly WR tbf) with a generic C2:
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6992
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6993
granted these are fake builds and not poss but most have sticky and obv AEQ+VA stacks still for this. i wont pretend this is some scientific study and you know me - im not going to debate much with anyone
but atm i think its going to be hard to sustain an offense using the check down all day. we'll see i guess
likewise, HB/FB coverage is vastly improved to where it now comes down to the coverage roll rather than all the uncontested stuff of the last few seasons.
With catch fakes being the way they are? lol. Bhall is clearly having too much input because the completion part of short passes absolutely didn't need any help beyond their timing. As a DC, I already had almost no chance of preventing a 5 yard completion if the QB threw it quickly. Possession Receiver is an extremely strong VA that has no defensive counter, but you're going to make short passes completed at an even higher percentage? That's crazy town. Fixing the timing of the throw on short routes is great, but please do not make them any easier to complete or you'll hardly ever see a punt.
seeing around 55-60% comp when the hot-read triggers on a blitz.
so then using a short passing package that forced progressions (mainly WR tbf) with a generic C2:
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6992
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=6993
granted these are fake builds and not poss but most have sticky and obv AEQ+VA stacks still for this. i wont pretend this is some scientific study and you know me - im not going to debate much with anyone
but atm i think its going to be hard to sustain an offense using the check down all day. we'll see i guesslikewise, HB/FB coverage is vastly improved to where it now comes down to the coverage roll rather than all the uncontested stuff of the last few seasons.
Originally posted by jdbolick
How is the 7 yard designation for bonuses determined? Under the assumption that it was measured from the line of scrimmage and only applied to passes that ended within that range (as opposed to all passes attempted while the receiver was still within 7 yards at the time of release), I got the following numbers from test game 6991: 40-9 -
84 total attempts of 7 yards or less
51 completions, or 60.7%
17 deflections, or 20.2%
6 bad passes (test game featured constant heavy blitzing)
6 knocked loose (10.5% of completed catches)
2 drops
1 incomplete pass
1 interception by a defender covering another player between the QB and the targeted receiver
Do these test WRs have the Possession WR VA? If so, those numbers look acceptable. I'll take a look at ee's other test game later. I did notice that there was still some tendency for the target to come back towards the pass, including one occasion where it caused a loss of 0.5 yards, but it wasn't common.
majority have that VA, yes.
How is the 7 yard designation for bonuses determined? Under the assumption that it was measured from the line of scrimmage and only applied to passes that ended within that range (as opposed to all passes attempted while the receiver was still within 7 yards at the time of release), I got the following numbers from test game 6991: 40-9 -
84 total attempts of 7 yards or less
51 completions, or 60.7%
17 deflections, or 20.2%
6 bad passes (test game featured constant heavy blitzing)
6 knocked loose (10.5% of completed catches)
2 drops
1 incomplete pass
1 interception by a defender covering another player between the QB and the targeted receiver
Do these test WRs have the Possession WR VA? If so, those numbers look acceptable. I'll take a look at ee's other test game later. I did notice that there was still some tendency for the target to come back towards the pass, including one occasion where it caused a loss of 0.5 yards, but it wasn't common.
majority have that VA, yes.
bhall43
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Originally posted by jdbolick
With catch fakes being the way they are? lol. Bhall is clearly having too much input because the completion part of short passes absolutely didn't need any help beyond their timing. As a DC, I already had almost no chance of preventing a 5 yard completion if the QB threw it quickly. Possession Receiver is an extremely strong VA that has no defensive counter, but you're going to make short passes completed at an even higher percentage? That's crazy town. Fixing the timing of the throw on short routes is great, but please do not make them any easier to complete or you'll hardly ever see a punt.
A) You obviously haven't watched the test games with new air mechanics.
B) I am not currently on the server so I have just about as much input on things as any of you right here. >_< Furthermore I just got done saying that my comments on short passing was that their timing needed to be like they were prior to hotspots.
C) Saying you had almost no chance of preventing a 5 yard completion to a WR is just pure lulz and before you say anything about TE's, HB's, and FB's they have fixed that coverage.
D) It is hilarious how much commentary you have on all of this considering you just got done earlier saying you haven't read anything about the changes nor watched the test games. GTFO imo.
With catch fakes being the way they are? lol. Bhall is clearly having too much input because the completion part of short passes absolutely didn't need any help beyond their timing. As a DC, I already had almost no chance of preventing a 5 yard completion if the QB threw it quickly. Possession Receiver is an extremely strong VA that has no defensive counter, but you're going to make short passes completed at an even higher percentage? That's crazy town. Fixing the timing of the throw on short routes is great, but please do not make them any easier to complete or you'll hardly ever see a punt.
A) You obviously haven't watched the test games with new air mechanics.
B) I am not currently on the server so I have just about as much input on things as any of you right here. >_< Furthermore I just got done saying that my comments on short passing was that their timing needed to be like they were prior to hotspots.
C) Saying you had almost no chance of preventing a 5 yard completion to a WR is just pure lulz and before you say anything about TE's, HB's, and FB's they have fixed that coverage.
D) It is hilarious how much commentary you have on all of this considering you just got done earlier saying you haven't read anything about the changes nor watched the test games. GTFO imo.
jdbolick
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Obviously I should have watched some games before running my mouth. In any case, don't let bhall watch 6992: 16-24. It was rather hideous in terms of how long the QB would hold the ball on ins and crossing routes. They usually let the receiver run to the outside third before attempting a pass, even if the WR had a dot length advantage on the coverage. Here are the numbers using the same criteria as before:
84 total attempts of 7 yards or less
42 completions, or 50%
25 deflections, or 29.8%
8 knocked loose (16% of completed catches)
7 bad passes (interesting versus a 3 man rush)
2 interceptions'
So whatever bonuses they added regarding the 7 yard range don't seem too severe. You can still get deflections and knock passes loose.
84 total attempts of 7 yards or less
42 completions, or 50%
25 deflections, or 29.8%
8 knocked loose (16% of completed catches)
7 bad passes (interesting versus a 3 man rush)
2 interceptions'
So whatever bonuses they added regarding the 7 yard range don't seem too severe. You can still get deflections and knock passes loose.
snakes22
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Originally posted by jdbolick
Obviously I should have watched some games before running my mouth. In any case, don't let bhall watch 6992: 16-24. It was rather hideous in terms of how long the QB would hold the ball on ins and crossing routes. They usually let the receiver run to the outside third before attempting a pass, even if the WR had a dot length advantage on the coverage. Here are the numbers using the same criteria as before:
84 total attempts of 7 yards or less
42 completions, or 50%
25 deflections, or 29.8%
8 knocked loose (16% of completed catches)
7 bad passes (interesting versus a 3 man rush)
2 interceptions'
So whatever bonuses they added regarding the 7 yard range don't seem too severe. You can still get deflections and knock passes loose.
^ Looks like a c2 with underneath third zone that was eating up all the 5 yard in routes
I would like to see some more deep pass testing if they are going live with this air resistance thing
Obviously I should have watched some games before running my mouth. In any case, don't let bhall watch 6992: 16-24. It was rather hideous in terms of how long the QB would hold the ball on ins and crossing routes. They usually let the receiver run to the outside third before attempting a pass, even if the WR had a dot length advantage on the coverage. Here are the numbers using the same criteria as before:
84 total attempts of 7 yards or less
42 completions, or 50%
25 deflections, or 29.8%
8 knocked loose (16% of completed catches)
7 bad passes (interesting versus a 3 man rush)
2 interceptions'
So whatever bonuses they added regarding the 7 yard range don't seem too severe. You can still get deflections and knock passes loose.
^ Looks like a c2 with underneath third zone that was eating up all the 5 yard in routes
I would like to see some more deep pass testing if they are going live with this air resistance thing
bhall43
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Originally posted by jdbolick
Obviously I should have watched some games before running my mouth. In any case, don't let bhall watch 6992: 16-24. It was rather hideous in terms of how long the QB would hold the ball on ins and crossing routes. They usually let the receiver run to the outside third before attempting a pass, even if the WR had a dot length advantage on the coverage.
Forced single progression. That is why it is so ugly. In which that is kinda my hopes that a DC congests an area based on scouting and is able to hold off that quick pass. Possibly drive a blitz from the other side. The thing is however how long does it generally take for the QB to release on that progression say if I just went WR2-WR2-TE-WR1-HB or some odd thing like that where I only doubled the progression. I assume the single progression doesn't hold that quick play for long especially if there is a blitz.
Obviously I should have watched some games before running my mouth. In any case, don't let bhall watch 6992: 16-24. It was rather hideous in terms of how long the QB would hold the ball on ins and crossing routes. They usually let the receiver run to the outside third before attempting a pass, even if the WR had a dot length advantage on the coverage.
Forced single progression. That is why it is so ugly. In which that is kinda my hopes that a DC congests an area based on scouting and is able to hold off that quick pass. Possibly drive a blitz from the other side. The thing is however how long does it generally take for the QB to release on that progression say if I just went WR2-WR2-TE-WR1-HB or some odd thing like that where I only doubled the progression. I assume the single progression doesn't hold that quick play for long especially if there is a blitz.
bhall43
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Originally posted by snakes22
^ Looks like a c2 with underneath third zone that was eating up all the 5 yard in routes
I would like to see some more deep pass testing if they are going live with this air resistance thing
Seems like the air resistance thing doesn't lead passes very well.
^ Looks like a c2 with underneath third zone that was eating up all the 5 yard in routes
I would like to see some more deep pass testing if they are going live with this air resistance thing
Seems like the air resistance thing doesn't lead passes very well.
Originally posted by bhall43
Forced single progression. That is why it is so ugly. In which that is kinda my hopes that a DC congests an area based on scouting and is able to hold off that quick pass. Possibly drive a blitz from the other side. The thing is however how long does it generally take for the QB to release on that progression say if I just went WR2-WR2-TE-WR1-HB or some odd thing like that where I only doubled the progression. I assume the single progression doesn't hold that quick play for long especially if there is a blitz.
not sure if this answers your question but "all blitz with short passing package" package had the short route as a dbl read before moving through other progressions.
Forced single progression. That is why it is so ugly. In which that is kinda my hopes that a DC congests an area based on scouting and is able to hold off that quick pass. Possibly drive a blitz from the other side. The thing is however how long does it generally take for the QB to release on that progression say if I just went WR2-WR2-TE-WR1-HB or some odd thing like that where I only doubled the progression. I assume the single progression doesn't hold that quick play for long especially if there is a blitz.
not sure if this answers your question but "all blitz with short passing package" package had the short route as a dbl read before moving through other progressions.
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