Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Gyuri1
Originally posted by Barnsie

Originally posted by Bukowski


We should just turn DEs back to Season 6.

OTs are built correctly now, there wouldn't be nearly as many sacks as before, tbh.

I have no idea why so many people are opposed to this, thinking that DEs were so wildly unbalanced. I think it's b/c the sack numbers against inferior/gutted opponents were huge and a bunch of OT agents hadn't yet quite figured out how to build to stop it. As a result, you had ridiculous (at first glance) sack numbers and some frustrated OT-owning agents, which, when combined with certain pro-offense members of GLB that have an interesting sense of balance and realism, led to a sustained riot. This legacy has only grown with the passage of time (all 4 months of it).



I don't know why either, all I know is the current sim is UNACCEPTABLE. My DE who had 6 LEGITIMATE sacks at RDE in SA Pro last year(which is a good year for a RDE and 2 sacks were vs. the Benitos LT) was held to 1 tackle, ZERO hurries and ZERO Sacks by a CPU LT today in 69 plays vs. a CPU team who passed 66 times. COMPLETE BULLSHIT.

Originally posted by thehazyone
Originally posted by thehazyone

Originally posted by Bort


6.64% huh? Interesting. That gives a very good idea of what to shoot for.

Great test with QB vision hazy. Maybe all I really need to do is increase the difficulty of the "throw the ball" vision check. There is one performed when a player is getting close to sack distance, to see if he can managed to get it away quickly. I have just updated that vision check on the test server to double the difficulty, so you can test against it if you like.

I went ahead and tested it, using the same guys with SA's (OL still had no SA's but I was using this for a comparison) at DE.

In the previous version before you updated the vision check, there was 10 sacks and 110 hurries in 3,747 plays over the 10 game run. In the version ran after you updated the vision check, there was 33 sacks and 77 hurries in 3,613 plays over the 10 game run. So if the QB threw the ball 500 times in a season (or 30 times a game), the average (meaning the composite of all these DE's) DE would get 4.6 sacks. Some positions were more effective than others, as is to be expected, and the speed DE was the best with 19 sacks and 15 hurries in 915 snaps or a avg of 10.38 over a 500 pass play season. The combo DE's were next best effective with 8 sacks and 27 hurries in 888 plays or an avg of 4.5 sacks over a 500 pass play season. This in my opinion is right around where an "average" DE should be.

Conclusion - the updated vision check helps, but I probably wouldn't quite do double, maybe a 60-70% increase. I'd also continue to look for ways to help strength based pass rushers as it's still obvious that speed DE's are the best way to go.

Originally posted by Bort

It confirms my suspicion, as well, that the D is actually getting hurries by getting through or around the line, but just not able to convert them to sacks very often because the QB is too omnicient.

I've adjusted the vision check line to halfway in between previous and the double test, which I guess equates to a 50% increase in difficulty from what it was before. Maybe running a few more games would get a good baseline there.

We have to keep in mind that the min-max type players out there will always tend to net about 15-25% more towards their stats than we do in testing, due to fine tuning their teams and playbooks, while the more casual style players will tend to get about 10-15% less. That's pretty much held true for me for all 9 seasons I've been running the game.

I hate to sound like a whiny kid but I am not really for this. I mean QBs are already missing open targets, I'd rather you fix the DE/OT interaction instead of messing with QBs and EVEN IF YOU DO MAKE THE CHANGE WITH THE QBs, that doesn't excuse fixing the OT/DE interaction. Blocking is WAY TOO EASY for OTs right now, it doesn't matter at how terrible of an angle and how strong your DE is if they are able to get to you, you are usually fucked or they slow you enough where when you get by, you can't get the sack. You need to add some realism to the interaction, there needs to have some sort of leverage and momentum come into play, I don't know if you can code that but a DE coming full speed and hitting a OT spinning to catch him at corner will almost always be able to knock the OT back or over and make a passrush move to the inside unless the DE is weak or the OT is able to push him to the backside. As it is right now, the OT just catches you in an imaginary bubble and holds the block which is completely impossible in real life.

Originally posted by jrry32
I don't know why either, all I know is the current sim is UNACCEPTABLE. My DE who had 6 LEGITIMATE sacks at RDE in SA Pro last year(which is a good year for a RDE and 2 sacks were vs. the Benitos LT) was held to 1 tackle, ZERO hurries and ZERO Sacks by a CPU LT today in 69 plays vs. a CPU team who passed 66 times. COMPLETE BULLSHIT.


Ouch.

I really hope Bort figures something out soon, b/c there's no way I'm boosting my remaining DEs until things are sorted out (I've made that mistake one too many times) and I'd like not to lose too much of the season waiting to have usable DEs.

*golfclap*

Good comments jrry32.

Originally posted by Gyuri1
Originally posted by jrry32

I don't know why either, all I know is the current sim is UNACCEPTABLE. My DE who had 6 LEGITIMATE sacks at RDE in SA Pro last year(which is a good year for a RDE and 2 sacks were vs. the Benitos LT) was held to 1 tackle, ZERO hurries and ZERO Sacks by a CPU LT today in 69 plays vs. a CPU team who passed 66 times. COMPLETE BULLSHIT.


Ouch.

I really hope Bort figures something out soon, b/c there's no way I'm boosting my remaining DEs until things are sorted out (I've made that mistake one too many times) and I'd like not to lose too much of the season waiting to have usable DEs.


It sucks, I can't even stat whore vs. gutted teams anymore. That's sad.

Originally posted by thehazyone
The slow back pedaling as far as I'm concerned isn't so the QB will get sacked more often, it's too slow down how quickly he gets the ball. It gives the WR's/CB's more time to run their routes and get open but at the same time gives more time to the line to either get through or not. I'm not talking a drastic reduction either, just enough to create a little more backfield havoc.


I am hoping that the Back pedal change only would occur on Pass plays. Can you Confirm Hazy ???

A increased delay in hand off time because the backpedal change affects both the run and pass plays would increase the time it takes to hand off the ball to the running back. We already have worthless run plays related to hand off timing that allow the D to attack and get thru the line before the rb can get moving.

c i rly disagree i think the qbs are only doin a 3 step drop and throw which rly be a quicker release and believe me ot have alot more advantage than the tes they only need to hold ground while des have to move power through a tackle and then get to the qb wrap up and make a tackle. kinda alot to do while it only takes about 2 to 4 seconds to take a 3 step drop back and throw. my teams qb is taking a 5 step and sittin taking all reads before throwing and it does take long it juz all depends on the play

Yeah.. There is no way Jrry32's DE should be held stat-less, against an all CPU team - his DE is a beast.

Originally posted by Bukowski
Yeah.. There is no way Jrry32's DE should be held stat-less, against an all CPU team - his DE is a beast.

Yea.

IN the NFL most teams are fairly equal...

We just played a game where our lvl 22 DE's managed to get ZERO sacks agains LVL 1 OT's

http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=559287

That team passed the ball 53 times..

Luckily my fat slow NT got 1 sack.. against the lvl 1 guards and Center. hmm..


There is something wrong with pass rushing and sacks..

Originally posted by cashpath
IN the NFL most teams are fairly equal...

We just played a game where our lvl 22 DE's managed to get ZERO sacks agains LVL 1 OT's

http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=559287

That team passed the ball 53 times..

Luckily my fat slow NT got 1 sack.. against the lvl 1 guards and Center. hmm..


There is something wrong with pass rushing and sacks..

Yes.

Originally posted by cashpath
IN the NFL most teams are fairly equal...

We just played a game where our lvl 22 DE's managed to get ZERO sacks agains LVL 1 OT's

http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=559287

That team passed the ball 53 times..

Luckily my fat slow NT got 1 sack.. against the lvl 1 guards and Center. hmm..


There is something wrong with pass rushing and sacks..

But, QB vision will fix this. /sarcasm

Hazy,

The time in the pocket by the QB only fixes part of the problem with DEs. As an example, a team I DC for just had a game where the other team ran around the weak end maybe ten times. The DE on that side has a speed of 90+, an agility of 74+ and a vision in the mid 60s. He was not pancaked a single time in the game, and yet not a single time did he manage to get outside to stop the HB around the end.

He closed directly with the OT, and engaged him, only to stand there flailing uselessly as the HB went around him.

That is a problem if a decently fast DE can't seal the outside, or at the very least get involved with the play.

PinTBC

Originally posted by cashpath
IN the NFL most teams are fairly equal...

We just played a game where our lvl 22 DE's managed to get ZERO sacks agains LVL 1 OT's

http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=559287

That team passed the ball 53 times..

Luckily my fat slow NT got 1 sack.. against the lvl 1 guards and Center. hmm..


There is something wrong with pass rushing and sacks..

LOL! Clearly the solution is to slow down the QB. Why would a level 22 DE with 110 more SPs to spend be able to beat a level 1 OT?

Actually things were really screwy in this game. How the level 1 o-line isn't completely dominated and destroyed is beyond me. There should have been zero runs for positive yards, a whack of forced fumbles, and a ton of sacks.

T

Originally posted by Gyuri1
Originally posted by jrry32

I don't know why either, all I know is the current sim is UNACCEPTABLE. My DE who had 6 LEGITIMATE sacks at RDE in SA Pro last year(which is a good year for a RDE and 2 sacks were vs. the Benitos LT) was held to 1 tackle, ZERO hurries and ZERO Sacks by a CPU LT today in 69 plays vs. a CPU team who passed 66 times. COMPLETE BULLSHIT.


Ouch.

I really hope Bort figures something out soon, b/c there's no way I'm boosting my remaining DEs until things are sorted out (I've made that mistake one too many times) and I'd like not to lose too much of the season waiting to have usable DEs.



Clearly I'm a sucker. I boosted one of mine, but I'm not going to bother with the other until I can be assured that there is a way to build him so that he can actually get regular pressure and be part of the game.

T