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Forum > FAQ's, Player Guides and Newbie Help > Wise's Public Offense Consulting Q&A Thread
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WiSeIVIaN
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Originally posted by mikemart
Thanks, your answer actually helped out more than expected since I also DC for my team. My playbook is already pretty slim thanks to the old OC private forum where I checked out the thread on what packages to have. It was an old post but I figured the logic remained consistent with the game not getting updated for like a decade.

Is there any specific reason for the 5 wide hate?


So it depends on the league you're in, and the personnel, but generally...

1. DC's tend to have a dedicated blitz package that's hard to block if you don't have olinemen designed for pass blocking a little more than the general top level oline (more speed+vision), given they can overload a side so if your tackle doesn't take the outside player or your opposite side guard can't pick him up, you have a lot of insta-pressure situations.

2. People build WR's like shit, so many 5'8 155 spd WR's everywhere that do nothing in competitive games

3. TE/FB/RB tend to have better routes and better built players

4. Even if you had great WR's, many top level teams only have 4wr or 5wr total on their roster, so any prolonged 5W use is gonna make peeps pretty tired

5. The QB in shotgun itself kinda sucks in this game since it gives the defenders easier pass rush angles from the start of the snap to go unblocked on outside blitz. Only really beneficial if you have a slow QB that can't complete his drop before throwing the ball (which is why I recommend 50/50 min spd/agi on all QB's)

There are plays that can work, but the defense knows 1000% you're passing, and the sim was ultimately left in a spot where passing is kinda hard, and passing when they know you are passing is also pretty hard, especially if you don't have good pass protection.


if you wanna go live on crack island, make a team with 10 WR's, and 90 spd / 80 vision onlinemen, then go 5 wide every play. If not, I generally don't recommend.



 
mikemart
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Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
So it depends on the league you're in, and the personnel, but generally...


2. People build WR's like shit, so many 5'8 155 spd WR's everywhere that do nothing in competitive games





Oh no..
 
Theo Wizzago
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So... 2 things. #1 I'll add to Wise's input on 5 wide formation. I've used it... it's ok... but, mostly, DC can't wait to see you use it because they KNOW they can blitz an extra guy you CANNOT account for because no TE's or Backs to save your QB from gettin blown all to hell and back.

Now... for Wise... I have a question.

https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3126253&pbp_id=361592

It's MY QB and MY offense so I can tell you 100% that there's NO DAMN WAY that QB should LOCK onto ONE player and NEVER look at the next player in the progressions. So... why? Not the 1st time I've seen it happen and I'm not the only OC I know who has had it happen. When I set progressions, I expect the QB to USE THEM. There is MORE than enough time, in that play, for the QB to look at other receivers... including the HB who is WIDE F*CKIN OPEN and is DEFINITELY in the Progressions. Even two of the other WR's are single covered!
So... why? And can it be fixed?
 
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I SECOND THIS. There are time when I have 3-4 Progressions set on a play and the QB locks on the ist choice for 3+ counts.
 
Kegatron
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Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
So... 2 things. #1 I'll add to Wise's input on 5 wide formation. I've used it... it's ok... but, mostly, DC can't wait to see you use it because they KNOW they can blitz an extra guy you CANNOT account for because no TE's or Backs to save your QB from gettin blown all to hell and back.

Now... for Wise... I have a question.

https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3126253&pbp_id=361592

It's MY QB and MY offense so I can tell you 100% that there's NO DAMN WAY that QB should LOCK onto ONE player and NEVER look at the next player in the progressions. So... why? Not the 1st time I've seen it happen and I'm not the only OC I know who has had it happen. When I set progressions, I expect the QB to USE THEM. There is MORE than enough time, in that play, for the QB to look at other receivers... including the HB who is WIDE F*CKIN OPEN and is DEFINITELY in the Progressions. Even two of the other WR's are single covered!
So... why? And can it be fixed?



QB sneaking in a favorite target setting?
 
WiSeIVIaN
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Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
So... 2 things. #1 I'll add to Wise's input on 5 wide formation. I've used it... it's ok... but, mostly, DC can't wait to see you use it because they KNOW they can blitz an extra guy you CANNOT account for because no TE's or Backs to save your QB from gettin blown all to hell and back.

Now... for Wise... I have a question.

https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3126253&pbp_id=361592

It's MY QB and MY offense so I can tell you 100% that there's NO DAMN WAY that QB should LOCK onto ONE player and NEVER look at the next player in the progressions. So... why? Not the 1st time I've seen it happen and I'm not the only OC I know who has had it happen. When I set progressions, I expect the QB to USE THEM. There is MORE than enough time, in that play, for the QB to look at other receivers... including the HB who is WIDE F*CKIN OPEN and is DEFINITELY in the Progressions. Even two of the other WR's are single covered!
So... why? And can it be fixed?


For the record, I hate talking about, or looking at, or writing songs about non-plateau dots.

But here the answer is really clear. Generally, all routes have a sort of "how window" or whatever the heck we want to call it (bhall I think had a better name for it). But basically, the "hot window" on that TE's route is after he makes his break, which is an insanely far downfield 15 yard out route, on a slow non-plateau TE. Generally, the QB will not move off his first progression until he has cleared the "hot window". On some plays its hard to know the hot window until you've ran them but generally, it'll be right after their change of direction for in routes, out routes, post routes, corner routes.

The QB was never able to clear his first progression cuz he was waiting for the slow TE to do his thing, then the LDE gave pressure and the QB freaked out and threw it.

tl;dr, don't make your first progression a 15 yard out route, unless you REALLY want your QB to stare at the TE all day.
 
WiSeIVIaN
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Originally posted by Backes-to-Backes
I SECOND THIS. There are time when I have 3-4 Progressions set on a play and the QB locks on the ist choice for 3+ counts.


It's likely your first choice is a deep route with a deep "hot window".

With that said, high quick read WILL trigger the lazor show of looking at all 5 progressions sometimes. Issue is, bort sucks at coding and this often ends up with INT's you have no control over.

tl;dr your 1-2 progressions should matter most, since that gives you control as an OC. Choose them wisely. Or run quick read and blame bort when awful stuff happens.
 
WiSeIVIaN
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Originally posted by Kegatron

QB sneaking in a favorite target setting?


Fwiw favorite target doesn't lead to longer progressions, it just makes the QB think the WR is a little more open so more likely to pull the trigger on a throw.
 
DiMo28
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Originally posted by reddogrw


also, lots of testing on confidence on the test server

all you need to know is that catch22 ignored confidence on his dots


I disagree on this. I've ignored those tests because the sample size is way too small. My observational experience is that confidence is important for QBs when playing good defenses.
 
WiSeIVIaN
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Originally posted by DiMo28
I disagree on this. I've ignored those tests because the sample size is way too small. My observational experience is that confidence is important for QBs when playing good defenses.


I agree. #1 passing QB in WL has ~88 confidence and success despite a wackjob OC.

It's pretty well known that hazy (catch22) didn't make the best dots, so idk why he's proof of anything.

 
TJ Spikes
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iirc, catch had some other dork-tacular name like dominator or some shit.

Hazy wasn't catch afaik, could be wrong tho.

 
drewd21
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Originally posted by TJ Spikes
iirc, catch had some other dork-tacular name like dominator or some shit.

Hazy wasn't catch afaik, could be wrong tho.



https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/home.pl?user_id=373421


 
TJ Spikes
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Originally posted by drewd21
https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/home.pl?user_id=373421





That's the one. I can't believe all that happened 10 years ago.
Edited by TJ Spikes on Apr 14, 2023 13:32:01
 
Rocdog21
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Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
(catch22) didn't make the best dots, so idk why he's proof of anything.




Originally posted by drewd21
https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/home.pl?user_id=373421




His dots were pretty good, tbh
 
WiSeIVIaN
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Originally posted by drewd21
https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/home.pl?user_id=373421




That was his alt account when he worked for GLB, but he also has an account before he worked for GLB.

I thought he was thehazyone but I could be mistaken. Can anyone confirm?
 
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