Why is chipping a one way street? It doesnt appear that the offensive player doing the chipping every slows down.
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Originally posted by regoob2
Why is chipping a one way street? It doesnt appear that the offensive player doing the chipping every slows down.
True.
The D player slows down, which negates the LBer blitz versus the 'Big' formations, even if the TE isn't staying in to block. The blitz can't get to the QB before the TE is ten yards down the field, giving the QB four targets to throw to (since the HB usually has to stay in to protect against the SS blitz, which can still get through if you spread the D-line and the Lbers out and set the OLBs to shallow).
If the TE isn't slowed down by running through the LBer, the LBer shouldn't be slowed either.
Why is chipping a one way street? It doesnt appear that the offensive player doing the chipping every slows down.
True.
The D player slows down, which negates the LBer blitz versus the 'Big' formations, even if the TE isn't staying in to block. The blitz can't get to the QB before the TE is ten yards down the field, giving the QB four targets to throw to (since the HB usually has to stay in to protect against the SS blitz, which can still get through if you spread the D-line and the Lbers out and set the OLBs to shallow).
If the TE isn't slowed down by running through the LBer, the LBer shouldn't be slowed either.
bhall43
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Originally posted by Luzod
ok, after watching some games... seems to me that pitches are worthless again. Safeties reaction is just too perfect. CBs break WR blocks easily as usual and get the HB often and blocking is often more retarded than usual now that defenders reaction is crazy good.
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=6905&pbp_id=229715
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=6905&pbp_id=229718
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=6905&pbp_id=229717
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=6905&pbp_id=229719 <---- WR#1 being retarded.
As retarded as these replays may look. Find a replay of USC's WR's looking terrible at blocking. That will help your argument a bit more.
ok, after watching some games... seems to me that pitches are worthless again. Safeties reaction is just too perfect. CBs break WR blocks easily as usual and get the HB often and blocking is often more retarded than usual now that defenders reaction is crazy good.
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=6905&pbp_id=229715
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=6905&pbp_id=229718
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=6905&pbp_id=229717
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=6905&pbp_id=229719 <---- WR#1 being retarded.
As retarded as these replays may look. Find a replay of USC's WR's looking terrible at blocking. That will help your argument a bit more.
bhall43
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Originally posted by SteveMax58
On the bright side QBs might start completing 60% passing...just not if they throw deep all the time (or they'd better be perfectly built for it & facing teams that are not built perfectly to defend it).
I never had a problem with the yards or points (generally)...just how they came. I'd rather we have to adjust to different teams without completely making your team incapable of stopping anything else. Thats kinda the way I felt about the S30 sim...just go vanilla so you can give up 30 ish points rather than roll the dice & (potentially) give up 80.
What you aren't realizing is that throwing short/quick routes don't give you a higher completion %....it actually gives you a completely unreliable offense. I have always made my mark on this game with short and intermediate routes. Over the last couple of seasons I look shameful as an OC trying these things.
Now the exception is throwing to HB's and FB's on cut routes which have been absolutely ridiculous forever now. But after this offseason those are gone so nothing is "safe" anymore. If that were the case last season you look like a laughing stock doing anything but deep passing.
On the bright side QBs might start completing 60% passing...just not if they throw deep all the time (or they'd better be perfectly built for it & facing teams that are not built perfectly to defend it).
I never had a problem with the yards or points (generally)...just how they came. I'd rather we have to adjust to different teams without completely making your team incapable of stopping anything else. Thats kinda the way I felt about the S30 sim...just go vanilla so you can give up 30 ish points rather than roll the dice & (potentially) give up 80.
What you aren't realizing is that throwing short/quick routes don't give you a higher completion %....it actually gives you a completely unreliable offense. I have always made my mark on this game with short and intermediate routes. Over the last couple of seasons I look shameful as an OC trying these things.
Now the exception is throwing to HB's and FB's on cut routes which have been absolutely ridiculous forever now. But after this offseason those are gone so nothing is "safe" anymore. If that were the case last season you look like a laughing stock doing anything but deep passing.
bhall43
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Originally posted by SG✬21
Why they should be able to engage and sustain a block all the time isn't quite realistic.
And every corner is built like a brick house to break blocks and what not with their .5 ALG's.....lets not be completely foolish in this statement. I don't believe WR's are that ridiculous in blocking currently and I would even go as far as to say that WR's built to block are seriously given the shaft.
Why they should be able to engage and sustain a block all the time isn't quite realistic.
And every corner is built like a brick house to break blocks and what not with their .5 ALG's.....lets not be completely foolish in this statement. I don't believe WR's are that ridiculous in blocking currently and I would even go as far as to say that WR's built to block are seriously given the shaft.
bhall43
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Originally posted by regoob2
- Nerfed pump fake, buffed look off. Pump fake won't work against man any more except in the earliest few ticks of the play when they are still "facing" forward.
This REALLY shits on every pocket passer build out there. Pretty much makes that archtype unusable.
The fact that confidence is a highly overrated attribute for QB makes the pocket passer lol...not this change.
Originally posted by regoob2
It still makes deep passer the only choice.
it appears you don't understand the metagame. talk to some WL guys.
- Nerfed pump fake, buffed look off. Pump fake won't work against man any more except in the earliest few ticks of the play when they are still "facing" forward.
This REALLY shits on every pocket passer build out there. Pretty much makes that archtype unusable.
The fact that confidence is a highly overrated attribute for QB makes the pocket passer lol...not this change.
Originally posted by regoob2
It still makes deep passer the only choice.
it appears you don't understand the metagame. talk to some WL guys.
Edited by bhall43 on Oct 1, 2012 23:41:14
bhall43
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Originally posted by snakes22
Bort just forcing you to get Pump Fake + Look Off to have the same effectiveness as we're used to. Couldn't just buff look off and leave pump fake as is cuz that would prob be too powerful and taking away from man just makes sense.
Want to fake zone defenders = pump fake , look off
Want to fake man coverage = WR route run fakes
btw the only time I seen look off work before is vs DE's in flat zones
jesus christ you are desperate with this fake stuff.
Bort just forcing you to get Pump Fake + Look Off to have the same effectiveness as we're used to. Couldn't just buff look off and leave pump fake as is cuz that would prob be too powerful and taking away from man just makes sense.
Want to fake zone defenders = pump fake , look off
Want to fake man coverage = WR route run fakes
btw the only time I seen look off work before is vs DE's in flat zones
jesus christ you are desperate with this fake stuff.
bhall43
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Originally posted by regoob2
I played CB. No you dont. What you're referring to are bad players. The direction of my head doesnt effect my foot speed. For some people it can. Those are bad players.
Pump fake could work when WRs make cuts.
Pump fake still works in the early stages of man coverage. Which is totally realistic. I am not sure much you stared at the QB being in man coverage but you clearly are a bit delusional on your skills or were playing against really terrible people.
I played CB. No you dont. What you're referring to are bad players. The direction of my head doesnt effect my foot speed. For some people it can. Those are bad players.
Pump fake could work when WRs make cuts.
Pump fake still works in the early stages of man coverage. Which is totally realistic. I am not sure much you stared at the QB being in man coverage but you clearly are a bit delusional on your skills or were playing against really terrible people.
bhall43
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Originally posted by Catch22
Short Passing
--The QB can make a vision check to read that there's an unassigned blitzer, and if there is, it increases the rate at which his acceptable risk values climb, increases pressure values, and decreases progression switch time. If he fails, of course, he will go on like it is now.
--I also lowered the thresholds for throw aways, since those pretty much never happen any more, and it seems to be because the thresholds are just too high. You have to have a tactics setting other than the highest one, though, for it to really ever come up. It's still probably pretty rare.
--I'm going to add an exclamation point icon for when the QB makes the read
Additional changes based on testing/feedback for Short Passing:
To fix "taking the sack too often:"
-- Increased the rollout/scramble thresholds when having made the blitz read. My guy with "scramble sometimes" didn't seem to take off very often at all.
To simulate "the defense is taken off guard by a quick throw:"
-- Gave a bonus to chance and duration of route running fakes (all kinds) when within 7 yds during the first 15 ticks of the play.
-- Gave a penalty to deflecting/intercepting/KLing the ball within 7 yds during the first 15 ticks.
To simulate the "timing throw" mechanism RL teams have that makes catching the ball easier:
-- Gave a bonus to PQ when making a throw within the first 15 ticks to a target within 7 yds
-- Reduced chance of a bad pass within the first 15 ticks when having read the blitz
-- Gave a bonus to catching passes during the first 15 ticks when within 7yds
sooolid.
Short Passing
--The QB can make a vision check to read that there's an unassigned blitzer, and if there is, it increases the rate at which his acceptable risk values climb, increases pressure values, and decreases progression switch time. If he fails, of course, he will go on like it is now.
--I also lowered the thresholds for throw aways, since those pretty much never happen any more, and it seems to be because the thresholds are just too high. You have to have a tactics setting other than the highest one, though, for it to really ever come up. It's still probably pretty rare.
--I'm going to add an exclamation point icon for when the QB makes the read
Additional changes based on testing/feedback for Short Passing:
To fix "taking the sack too often:"
-- Increased the rollout/scramble thresholds when having made the blitz read. My guy with "scramble sometimes" didn't seem to take off very often at all.
To simulate "the defense is taken off guard by a quick throw:"
-- Gave a bonus to chance and duration of route running fakes (all kinds) when within 7 yds during the first 15 ticks of the play.
-- Gave a penalty to deflecting/intercepting/KLing the ball within 7 yds during the first 15 ticks.
To simulate the "timing throw" mechanism RL teams have that makes catching the ball easier:
-- Gave a bonus to PQ when making a throw within the first 15 ticks to a target within 7 yds
-- Reduced chance of a bad pass within the first 15 ticks when having read the blitz
-- Gave a bonus to catching passes during the first 15 ticks when within 7yds
sooolid.
Luzod
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Originally posted by Catch22
HB/FB/TE in/out route coverage issues
--updated the coverage on backs to try and help with the reports of "I can't cover in/out routes from the HB." I've made the coverage more willing to move in closer earlier, and they now play them straight up instead of inside or outside, so they will be less likely to be shaken one way or the other. Same for anybody who's not a WR (TE/FB).
Yeah... I guess that's ok.
Originally posted by Catch22
Screen Passes
--Knocked off several ticks from the pass block length on the pulling linemen, so they only hold on for 2 or 3 ticks before heading out and chipping their way to their lead block points.
--Also, I added a 2 tick delay before the HB begins running his route.
--I also added block focus targets for the lead blockers just like an outside rush, so the lead blockers should focus on players outside the box.
--Also I extended the WR routes so they should lead their men further downfield.
--Codewise, I updated things so the QB can throw early if pressure gets high enough, as long the play has gone on for at least 1 second.
--Also upped the defense avoid radius for screens so QB should be willing to drop back more.
--Also, I have added screens to they play types that work with "pulling lineman" VA. Since they are so crappy, might as well add that bonus to something that makes sense and people are always asking about anyway.
--Also, all defenders (including coverage) ARE blockable and chippable already, assuming the blockers can catch them.
I really don't see a reason for those 2 ticks delay before the HB begins running. I mean... I really don't, mind to explain?
Originally posted by Catch22
Short Passing
--The QB can make a vision check to read that there's an unassigned blitzer, and if there is, it increases the rate at which his acceptable risk values climb, increases pressure values, and decreases progression switch time. If he fails, of course, he will go on like it is now.
--I also lowered the thresholds for throw aways, since those pretty much never happen any more, and it seems to be because the thresholds are just too high. You have to have a tactics setting other than the highest one, though, for it to really ever come up. It's still probably pretty rare.
--I'm going to add an exclamation point icon for when the QB makes the read
Additional changes based on testing/feedback for Short Passing:
To fix "taking the sack too often:"
-- Increased the rollout/scramble thresholds when having made the blitz read. My guy with "scramble sometimes" didn't seem to take off very often at all.
To simulate "the defense is taken off guard by a quick throw:"
-- Gave a bonus to chance and duration of route running fakes (all kinds) when within 7 yds during the first 15 ticks of the play.
-- Gave a penalty to deflecting/intercepting/KLing the ball within 7 yds during the first 15 ticks.
To simulate the "timing throw" mechanism RL teams have that makes catching the ball easier:
-- Gave a bonus to PQ when making a throw within the first 15 ticks to a target within 7 yds
-- Reduced chance of a bad pass within the first 15 ticks when having read the blitz
-- Gave a bonus to catching passes during the first 15 ticks when within 7yds
HB/FB/TE in/out route coverage issues
--updated the coverage on backs to try and help with the reports of "I can't cover in/out routes from the HB." I've made the coverage more willing to move in closer earlier, and they now play them straight up instead of inside or outside, so they will be less likely to be shaken one way or the other. Same for anybody who's not a WR (TE/FB).
Yeah... I guess that's ok.
Originally posted by Catch22
Screen Passes
--Knocked off several ticks from the pass block length on the pulling linemen, so they only hold on for 2 or 3 ticks before heading out and chipping their way to their lead block points.
--Also, I added a 2 tick delay before the HB begins running his route.
--I also added block focus targets for the lead blockers just like an outside rush, so the lead blockers should focus on players outside the box.
--Also I extended the WR routes so they should lead their men further downfield.
--Codewise, I updated things so the QB can throw early if pressure gets high enough, as long the play has gone on for at least 1 second.
--Also upped the defense avoid radius for screens so QB should be willing to drop back more.
--Also, I have added screens to they play types that work with "pulling lineman" VA. Since they are so crappy, might as well add that bonus to something that makes sense and people are always asking about anyway.
--Also, all defenders (including coverage) ARE blockable and chippable already, assuming the blockers can catch them.
I really don't see a reason for those 2 ticks delay before the HB begins running. I mean... I really don't, mind to explain?
Originally posted by Catch22
Short Passing
--The QB can make a vision check to read that there's an unassigned blitzer, and if there is, it increases the rate at which his acceptable risk values climb, increases pressure values, and decreases progression switch time. If he fails, of course, he will go on like it is now.
--I also lowered the thresholds for throw aways, since those pretty much never happen any more, and it seems to be because the thresholds are just too high. You have to have a tactics setting other than the highest one, though, for it to really ever come up. It's still probably pretty rare.
--I'm going to add an exclamation point icon for when the QB makes the read
Additional changes based on testing/feedback for Short Passing:
To fix "taking the sack too often:"
-- Increased the rollout/scramble thresholds when having made the blitz read. My guy with "scramble sometimes" didn't seem to take off very often at all.
To simulate "the defense is taken off guard by a quick throw:"
-- Gave a bonus to chance and duration of route running fakes (all kinds) when within 7 yds during the first 15 ticks of the play.
-- Gave a penalty to deflecting/intercepting/KLing the ball within 7 yds during the first 15 ticks.
To simulate the "timing throw" mechanism RL teams have that makes catching the ball easier:
-- Gave a bonus to PQ when making a throw within the first 15 ticks to a target within 7 yds
-- Reduced chance of a bad pass within the first 15 ticks when having read the blitz
-- Gave a bonus to catching passes during the first 15 ticks when within 7yds
Edited by Luzod on Oct 2, 2012 02:50:42
snakes22
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Originally posted by snakes22
Bort just forcing you to get Pump Fake + Look Off to have the same effectiveness as we're used to. Couldn't just buff look off and leave pump fake as is cuz that would prob be too powerful and taking away from man just makes sense.
Want to fake zone defenders = pump fake , look off
Want to fake man coverage = WR route run fakes
btw the only time I seen look off work before is vs DE's in flat zones
Originally posted by bhall43
jesus christ you are desperate with this fake stuff.
I am in support of this change btw
Bort just forcing you to get Pump Fake + Look Off to have the same effectiveness as we're used to. Couldn't just buff look off and leave pump fake as is cuz that would prob be too powerful and taking away from man just makes sense.
Want to fake zone defenders = pump fake , look off
Want to fake man coverage = WR route run fakes
btw the only time I seen look off work before is vs DE's in flat zones
Originally posted by bhall43
jesus christ you are desperate with this fake stuff.
I am in support of this change btw
Edited by snakes22 on Oct 2, 2012 05:21:54
Originally posted by Luzod
I really don't see a reason for those 2 ticks delay before the HB begins running. I mean... I really don't, mind to explain?
to let the play develop (blockers getting out into space) and ideally allow the HB to set up his blocking better
I really don't see a reason for those 2 ticks delay before the HB begins running. I mean... I really don't, mind to explain?
to let the play develop (blockers getting out into space) and ideally allow the HB to set up his blocking better
snakes22
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Originally posted by Catch22
Additional changes based on testing/feedback for Short Passing:
To fix "taking the sack too often:"
-- Increased the rollout/scramble thresholds when having made the blitz read. My guy with "scramble sometimes" didn't seem to take off very often at all.
To simulate "the defense is taken off guard by a quick throw:"
-- Gave a bonus to chance and duration of route running fakes (all kinds) when within 7 yds during the first 15 ticks of the play. SCARY - Fakes dont get enough bonuses already?
-- Gave a penalty to deflecting/intercepting/KLing the ball within 7 yds during the first 15 ticks... WHY? Defense didnt know they were blitzing? They are expecting a quick pass!!/ ball to come out quickly
To simulate the "timing throw" mechanism RL teams have that makes catching the ball easier:
-- Gave a bonus to PQ when making a throw within the first 15 ticks to a target within 7 yds. DUMP PASS SA
-- Reduced chance of a bad pass within the first 15 ticks when having read the blitz. This is ok
-- Gave a bonus to catching passes during the first 15 ticks when within 7yds. POSSESSION WR VA
Mechanics of reading the blitz and stuff is a good idea.
Giving these raw bonuses/penalties is a BAD idea. We already can get bonuses to these situations via Possession WR VA and Dump Pass SA. (Build issue not something u guys need to override IMO)
Additional changes based on testing/feedback for Short Passing:
To fix "taking the sack too often:"
-- Increased the rollout/scramble thresholds when having made the blitz read. My guy with "scramble sometimes" didn't seem to take off very often at all.
To simulate "the defense is taken off guard by a quick throw:"
-- Gave a bonus to chance and duration of route running fakes (all kinds) when within 7 yds during the first 15 ticks of the play. SCARY - Fakes dont get enough bonuses already?
-- Gave a penalty to deflecting/intercepting/KLing the ball within 7 yds during the first 15 ticks... WHY? Defense didnt know they were blitzing? They are expecting a quick pass!!/ ball to come out quickly
To simulate the "timing throw" mechanism RL teams have that makes catching the ball easier:
-- Gave a bonus to PQ when making a throw within the first 15 ticks to a target within 7 yds. DUMP PASS SA
-- Reduced chance of a bad pass within the first 15 ticks when having read the blitz. This is ok
-- Gave a bonus to catching passes during the first 15 ticks when within 7yds. POSSESSION WR VA
Mechanics of reading the blitz and stuff is a good idea.
Giving these raw bonuses/penalties is a BAD idea. We already can get bonuses to these situations via Possession WR VA and Dump Pass SA. (Build issue not something u guys need to override IMO)
Edited by snakes22 on Oct 2, 2012 08:10:20
Edited by snakes22 on Oct 2, 2012 08:09:46
Edited by snakes22 on Oct 2, 2012 07:58:19
Edited by snakes22 on Oct 2, 2012 07:54:24
Originally posted by snakes22
Mechanics of reading the blitz and stuff is a good idea.
Giving these raw bonuses/penalties is a BAD idea. We already can get bonuses to these situations via Possession WR VA and Dump Pass SA. (Build issue not something u guys need to override IMO)
heh was actually just saying the same thing elsewhere
Mechanics of reading the blitz and stuff is a good idea.
Giving these raw bonuses/penalties is a BAD idea. We already can get bonuses to these situations via Possession WR VA and Dump Pass SA. (Build issue not something u guys need to override IMO)
heh was actually just saying the same thing elsewhere
bhall43
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Not sure Dump Pass works during the first 15 ticks of a play.
Possession WR isn't enough to make short passes the more viable option.
The bonus to fakes during the first 15 ticks on routes under 7 yards gives a more realistic feel to how fakes work and short passing works.
Possession WR isn't enough to make short passes the more viable option.
The bonus to fakes during the first 15 ticks on routes under 7 yards gives a more realistic feel to how fakes work and short passing works.
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