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Forum > Position Talk > D Line Club > D-Line Basics - for all D-linemen.
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tautology
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Welcome to tautology's dotball coaching thread for wannabe d-linemen!


D-line has always been my favorite position in the game and while I haven't actually checked around, I am pretty certain that I have built more DEs and DTs to level 72 than any other agent in the game...and probably by a wide margin. I don't claim to be the very best D-line architect in GLB, but I have managed to build two dots that were arguably the very best in all of GLB at their positions for their generations:


The mighty Oscar Balbuena: lynchpin of the best defense in World League season 11 through 14
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=531433


The redoubtable General Senggelinqin: cornerstone of the best defense in World league season 19 through 22
http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=1309759

I suppose if you build enough of them, you will eventually get a winner

I would encourage every new player to check the credentials of any given poster carefully before taking what they say as gospel. There are quite a few agents who don't let the fact that they have never surpassed mediocrity keep them from posting authoritatively on any given topic, thereby dooming future generations to the same mistakes and misconceptions that have kept them from high achievement.

The fact is, none of us know exactly how things really work...even the best agents out there can only offer their best interpretations of what they have seen in the sim, or what they have managed to decipher from various Bort-droppings over the years. So please use your own best judgment when reading the advice below, and never stop watching your dots! And above all else, remember this: When your dot is not behaving in the way you would like, 99% of the time you need to "fix your build." It is almost always the case that the sim is working "as intended," it's just that you are a little off the right page with your build.


So without further ado, please enjoy!

Preamble:
-This is written in an effort to help newer players conceptualize how attributes work for D-linemen, and what range of values they should aim for at the end of their builds.
-All of this is written with a level 72+ dot in mind. The paths by which you get there are varied and will affect your performance through the middle part of your career.
-All of this is written as of Season 22, using the build possibilities available as of that period.
-I make no particular distinction between pass-rushers and run-sstuffers or particular archetypes...the advice is general enough to apply to both.



Terminology: I refer to certain attributes as "primary, secondary or tertiary." This has everything to do with their importance to playing the position, and nothing to do with their ALGs for any particular archetype. Building dots effectively depends on understanding how to manipulate your training and SP expenditure in a way that amplifies your ALGs to the best advantage. As a result, certain Archetypes may find it better to spend building resources on non-primary attributes before primary attributes.

Here is a thread that may be of use in understanding how to do this: http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=3266213

***Importantly***- You will not have success building towards the minimum ranges for all of you primaries...generally speaking, you will want to be high to very high in one or two and low(er) in one or two, or have all in the middle somewhere.
For instance, most good DTs will have Strength + Agility equal to or better than 245 with speed negotiable depending on their role, while most good DEs will be aiming for Strength + Agility + Speed to be higher than 315 with a wide variety of possible ways to distribute those points based on role. Many DTs and DEs will exceed those values by a significant amount...though that is not necessarily the key to a great build.


The attributes:

Strength- This will help you not be pancaked, will help you break blocks, will help you hold position so you can make a tackle as a ballcarrier goes by, will help you push back the O-lineman and crush the pocket, will help preserve your energy when dealing with high strength O-linemen, will help you make tackles, (especially the "head-on" tackles that DTs occasionally have the opportunity to try), and will help you keep the ballcarrier from diving forward for extra yardage when you tackle him.

This is a primary attribute for all D-linemen.

Recommended values:
DEs- 90 to 150
DTs- 135 to 165

Agility- This will help you not be pancaked, help you shed blocks (a lot), help you to break away from a block by backing away (a lot), help you slip quickly by a defender without ever engaging in a block, help you make tackles (especially from the side or from awkward angles), help you accelerate (especially laterally), help you cover ground quickly in your DC flares you into a zone, and help you deflect passes at the LOS.

This is a primary attribute for all D-linemen.

Recommended values:
DEs- 95 to 130
DTs- 90 to 115

Speed- This will help you accelerate once a block has been broken, help you cut off or chase down outside runners, help you swing inside from the DE position to cut off inside runs that break through, help you swing around OTs for a sack if you get a good first step, help you close very quickly if the DC manages an overload that leaves you unblocked, helps you spring through screen blockers for a sack on occasion, and helps you cover your area effectively if the DC flares you into a zone.

This is a primary attribute for all DEs, but arguably a secondary attribute for run-stuffing DTs.
It is important for certain types of builds, but much less important for others. In general, DEs benefit from speed much more than DTs. Players with high First Step benefit much more than players without First Step. Lighter players seem to benefit more from high speed than heavier players.

Recommended values:
DEs- 80 to 130
DTs*- 60 to 100

*Note: DTs seem to have a no-man's land from the low 60s to around 80 where incremental speed is of very dubious value. DTs that are light and first-step/agility focused might try for 85-100 speed, while DTs that are heavier and don't have First Step might benefit more from modest speed and better attributes/SAs elsewhere.


Vision- This will help you get a good jump off the line, help you diagnose screen plays quickly, help you deflect passes at the LOS, help you prevent HB Jukes/Head fakes, help you tackle more effectively in the open field, help you attempt more tackles while being blocked, and possibly help you a bit in breaking blocks.

This is a secondary attribute, which means that a really low level can have adverse effects on your performance, but a really high level won't generally make you a monster. D-line with vision below 50-53 tend to be pylons at high-level play. 70 Vision is generally considered sufficient to get a good jump on the snap most of the time.

Recommended values:
DEs- 60 to ?*
DTs- 60 to ?*

*Note: Very few build-gurus have really pushed high vision for D-line as of this writingˇKit remains to be seen if values above 70 are a worthwhile endeavor.


Tackling- This will help prevent missed open-field tackles, help make more successful tackling attempts while being blocked, help make tackles from a slightly longer range, and help make sacks "through" the O-line on occasion.

This is usually considered a secondary attribute, and its importance varies greatly depending on the DC's expectation for your dot. A lot of dedicated pass-rushing DEs play with very low tackling, though that does not necessarily mean it's a good idea. A good runstuffing DT might consider this a primary attribute and aim for the mid 80s or possibly higher.

Recommended values:
DEs- 55 to ?
DTs- 70 to ?


Stamina- This helps keep your dot from tiring out and greatly affects your second half performance. Dots with extremely high strength tend to burn less energy, while dots with very high speed and agility tend to burn a lot of it. DEs usually tire out more easily than DTs.

This is a secondary attribute, and low values can keep your dot from performing to its potential. Consider the numbers below to be the very minimum that you would want for your dot.

Recommended values:*
DEs- 55 to ?
DTs- 55 to ?

*Note: Many D-linemen play also play on Special Teams, in which case 60 should be considered the bare minimum value.


Confidence- This helps keep your dot playing well when the game turns ugly, and helps make plays in clutch situations. It may possibly also have some small direct effects in the various break block/read play/tackling rolls.

This is a secondary attribute and opinions vary widely on it's usefulness. Many folks play with 40 confidence on high level dots on very good teams. Other very good teams emphasize getting confidence to the 50-60 range for D-line. Some teams use points in Heart of a Champion to augment Confidence for the playoffs.

Recommended values:*
DEs- 40 to ?
DTs- 40 to ?

*Note: 40 confidence is the minimum for the popular VA "Overtime Killer".


Jumping- This helps you better deflect passes at the LOS and helps make diving tackles more effectively. The VA "Towering Man" requires 40 jumping.

This is a tertiary attribute and having a little bit is a nice added bonus for d-linemen. For a DE built to flare into the zones quite often, it might be of more value.

Recommended values:
DEs- 25 to ?
DTs- 25 to ?


Blocking- According to certain statements made by Bort and others, this plays a very small role in breaking blocks. Folks who have experimented with it find that the degree to which it helps is so small as to be virtually imperceptible. Feel free to experiment further and let us know your results

Recommended values:*
DEs- 8
DTs- 8

*Note: Many teams use D-line for Special Teams, and training this up to even as low as 25-35 can make a noticeable difference for blocking on returns.



That's it, and that's all. If I ever get around to it, I might write something up about SAs and Vas.

Good luck!

-taut
Edited by tautology on Jun 6, 2011 18:39:15
Edited by tautology on Jun 6, 2011 18:27:46
Edited by tautology on Jun 6, 2011 18:24:18
Edited by tautology on Jun 6, 2011 18:06:30
Edited by tautology on Jun 6, 2011 15:57:15
 
Menamino
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Good post. I'd also add that the key to building a good DL dot is knowing what specific position he's going to play, and knowing the type of OL dots he'll be facing, i.e. RT's tend to be much stronger/slower/less agile than LT's. Knowing that and building your dot to withstand the OL's strengths and taking as much advantage of their weaknesses as possible is very important.
 
skinsinsk
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Homage
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I QUESTION THIS MAN'S INTEGRITY
 
ninja turtles
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nice post
 
skeels
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Very useful info, I think the OP should be stickied on this forum. My findings pretty much confirm what he is saying, though I have not had the time/$$ to explore everything. I will note that for a pass rushing RDE it seems better to have speed higher than agility, rather than vise verse. (e.g. 120/110 spd/agi vs 110/120). If you are doing more of an all around/contain kind of build then the converse is true.

Strength seems to be an all or nothing at the DE spot, with increments between 80-90 not doing a whole lot, but anything above about 92-93 you start to see a lot more revcakes and strength-y behavior. Get much below 80 and you will be worthless. The OP claims you need 90+ strength, but if you are going to be doing more exclusive pass rushing and have plus-speed/agility then I wouldn't take it past 78 (as third attribute) or put any eq into it.

This all might just be a manifestation of the metagame of the past 5 seasons coming out in my observations, but it's what I've noticed on RDE while moving through various eq combinations/defensive roles in Pro/WL.
Edited by skeels on Jun 7, 2011 16:43:09
Edited by skeels on Jun 7, 2011 16:42:15
Edited by skeels on Jun 7, 2011 16:41:57
Edited by skeels on Jun 7, 2011 16:37:56
 
tautology
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Originally posted by skeels

Strength seems to be an all or nothing at the DE spot, with increments between 80-90 not doing a whole lot, but anything above about 92-93 you start to see a lot more revcakes and strength-y behavior. Get much below 80 and you will be worthless. The OP claims you need 90+ strength, but if you are going to be doing more exclusive pass rushing and have plus-speed/agility then I wouldn't take it past 78 (as third attribute) or put any eq into it.




I would agree for the most part that historically 78-80 strength might have been the bare minimum...but in the future (and even right now) OTs are getting much more powerful due to the better ALGs from archtypes and from the new training system. 90 is the new 80, imo.

 
foshizzel17
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good post Taut. They might make you a real Guru yet
 
Ilok
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I used to use him as a guru all the time.

Thanks for the post. My D-line will hit most of those figures, which is surprising.
 
regoob2
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What VAs do you like?
 
skeels
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Originally posted by tautology

I would agree for the most part that historically 78-80 strength might have been the bare minimum...but in the future (and even right now) OTs are getting much more powerful due to the better ALGs from archtypes and from the new training system. 90 is the new 80, imo.



fair enough. Like I said, my findings are more or less based on the metagame of the past 5-6 seasons, so numbers should definitely be scaled to account for players that have been built from day one in the newest training/BT/archetype/etc. system.
Edited by skeels on Jun 8, 2011 12:07:31
 
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Lamoix
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Well done, Tautology! Thanks for the clue, mate!
 
wessimo
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Nice post, Taut. Please expand this to discuss SAs and VAs if you don't mind sharing your thoughts on those
 
Pinkertons
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Very well done . Lots of good stuff here
 
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