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s592256
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Originally posted by harshmellow
Get rid of ALGs.


Not a sim issue, but what makes you say that?
 
Staz
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Originally posted by notgoing2argue
Probably too much work to code.


That would be a horrible business mentality, if Bort ever said something like that about an important aspect of the game.
 
harshmellow
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Originally posted by Staz
Originally posted by harshmellow

Get rid of ALGs.

Originally posted by Staz

That's not a sim issue. The Sim Issues are things within the simulation of a game (player behavior, pathing, how skills translate to actions, etc).




It leads to perceived SIM issues due to drastic imbalances in builds. Toning down the effect of build differentials within the SIM would have the same effect, resulting in fewer blowouts and more close games.

Also, I have a proposed solution to the pass rush: make passes easier to complete for QBs. The real problem with the pass rush is that rushers are so much faster than QBs that they're impossible to avoid. If a QB could throw good passes with less throwing/vision/strength then more SP could then be put into speed and agility, which would enhance the QB's ability to avoid rushers without changing the O-line/D-line dynamic. Most pass rushers have approximately twice as much speed as pocket QBs do.
Edited by harshmellow on May 17, 2010 18:12:59
 
odg62
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An oldie but a goodie....

Stop with the defelected passes being caught too much.

Bring back the "old" medium coverage - having to choose between never getting a pick and jumping routes while missing horribly most of the time sucks. Also its bad when 2+ defenders jump the same ball in the same exact place.

More freedom with the DPC - such as moving the NT to the right (way overdue, especially with the effectiveness of weak i runs these days), moving CBs into the box and all secondary all the way up to the line (why are safties/CBs not allowed to stand closer than 1 yard to the LOS?) and of course choosing the zone a guy drops into when his man stays in.

DE CUSTOM SLOTS! really? still?

situation based tactics.

Im all about D but i will say hitting receivers in stride needs to be better.

Broken tackles still super unrealistic and too frequent. Fakes by the ball carrier still have some aspects to them that are unrealistic/overpowered.

Penalize WR's for not having strentgh/blocking (more fumbles/pancakes)

The way fumbles are recovered really needs to be changed.

 
PinTBC
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Originally posted by pottsman
I just want to remind everyone that this thread is on SIM issues. Not forum issues, not player development issues, not website usability issues. This is for issues with the mechanics of the game, such as passing, blocking, tackling, faking, intercepting. Please stay on topic.


That is part of the problem.

The Sim doesn't separate from build issues, nor should it.

Right now there are so many layers on top of your basic building blocks (your attribute builds), it will be very hard to see the actual problems.

The person suggesting that more importance needs to be put on combinations of attributes is correct. There has to be more than one successful way to build a player or you end up with this mythical cookie cutter build.

Someone really needs to set up the combinations of attributes that affect each action in the sim, and see how well they are balanced.

Someone also should make sure that there are more than a single combination of attributes that determines the success or failure of an action. Action being used as a meta term, such as sack the QB, or deflect a pass.

Someone should look at the percentage adders and decide if they are really good for the sim. Any sort of a percentage adder simply exacerbates any build inadequacies.

If you don't fix the way your attributes interact with each other then changes to the Sim will continue to result in unforseen "features"
 
Xar
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Originally posted by s592256
Not a sim issue, but what makes you say that?


The ALGs along with AEQ and VAs are all additional bonuses that skew the problems with the sim. If these problems are solved then the sim would be seen as a raw element and better judged as what is wrong. We need to have a look at the bare-bones sim to determine where the problems are. One of the biggest problems is having all these band-aid fixes for things that aren't actually a massive problem at the base level. Trying to fix the sim for additional bonuses is stupid. ou need to start at the bottom and work your way up. Fix the base sim, then if the sim still acts stupid you know it is a problem somewhere else, so you fix that problem, instead of assuming the sim is fucked.

Use the test server and run a few games with 0 VAs and 0 AEQ and you'll see a decrease in problems. Take note of the remaining problems and address them. Get the sim to 90% perfect then add in AEQ. See what happens. If problems arise, fix the AEQ. Then add in VAs, more problems, address the VAs as the source. Do everything in a step-by-step manner and you will fix everything.

Then take away the ALGs and fix the build process to stop people building in such a ridiculous manner and people will have rounded builds that will act the way they are meant to. Then we will have a perfect game.
 
Staz
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Originally posted by harshmellow
It leads to perceived SIM issues due to drastic imbalances in builds. Toning down the effect of build differentials within the SIM would have the same effect, resulting in fewer blowouts and more close games.


To me, improving the sim would make more skills valuable in a build, and improving the actual physics within the game would ALSO make more skills valuable, as well as bring the performance down to a more realistic level. However, many people feel the thing that makes this game fun is the "super human" performance of some dots, which would still exist with extreme builds, but they would have a risk/reward type behavior.

ALGs are staying, we can't suggest getting rid of them (we've already tried that approach).


Originally posted by harshmellow
Also, I have a proposed solution to the pass rush: make passes easier to complete for QBs. The real problem with the pass rush is that rushers are so much faster than QBs that they're impossible to avoid. If a QB could throw good passes with less throwing/vision/strength then more SP could then be put into speed and agility, which would enhance the QB's ability to avoid rushers without changing the O-line/D-line dynamic. Most pass rushers have approximately twice as much speed as pocket QBs do.


The real problem with the pass rush is that the blocking interactions are off, the QBs have almost no ability to scramble (due to coding), the blocking ASSIGNMENTS and logic are off, and DL players are allowed to hit insane levels of acceleration after breaking blocks...

I do agree that the overall passing game is extremely unrealistic and is something that requires a high level of manipulation with SAs, VAs and AEQ.
 
Staz
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Originally posted by odg62
An oldie but a goodie....

Stop with the defelected passes being caught too much.

Bring back the "old" medium coverage - having to choose between never getting a pick and jumping routes while missing horribly most of the time sucks. Also its bad when 2+ defenders jump the same ball in the same exact place.

More freedom with the DPC - such as moving the NT to the right (way overdue, especially with the effectiveness of weak i runs these days), moving CBs into the box and all secondary all the way up to the line (why are safties/CBs not allowed to stand closer than 1 yard to the LOS?) and of course choosing the zone a guy drops into when his man stays in.

DE CUSTOM SLOTS! really? still?

situation based tactics.

Im all about D but i will say hitting receivers in stride needs to be better.

Broken tackles still super unrealistic and too frequent. Fakes by the ball carrier still have some aspects to them that are unrealistic/overpowered.

Penalize WR's for not having strentgh/blocking (more fumbles/pancakes)

The way fumbles are recovered really needs to be changed.



Oh man, do you bring up more points for me to bitch about lol


- Defenders react to passes in an ignorant way
- Jump routes less, and when they DO jump routes, allow more success (you shouldn't jump a route unless you've got the positioning)
- Deflected passes should be that, deflected. Either tell us the difference between a tip, deflection and swat, or make deflections actually DEFLECT the pass and alter it's direction
- Receivers should have to readjust to a pass when it's deflected
 
whitewolf
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Originally posted by Staz
Would this be a good place to spam my projects? lol

My Sim Issues:
- Blocking Logic is flawed and extremely fundamental AMEN
- Coverage is horrible due to poor placement of defenders, lack of realism in the way defenders react to certain fakes.
- Defenders seem to know exactly what play is being run when they pass the vision check
- Player movement and interactions seem to take on an almost comical approach (blocking, tackling, etc.)
- Multiple broken tackles occur at insane rates.
- There is no timing between QBs and receivers
- QBs have horrible leading skills
- Lack of player tactics/too generic See below
- Lack of assignments in the DPC (inside/outside coverage, stunts, gap blitzes, ability to choose which zone the defender covers when man assignments aren't available)
- Lack of variety in blocking assignments This really goes back to the first one.
- Defensive Reads are too vague and simple. Linebackers generally have different reads than the DT does, which is different than the FS, etc. There is a "universal" GLB check, that is not realistic.

If I sat down and thought about it, I could find more. This is just off the top of my head.

Edit: I'll add another one

- There is no "slow down". The dots go at full strength, full speed, full whatever at all times. There is no "run slower", no patience, no change of pace.


On the player tactics thing, I completely agree. I've posted suggestion threads that have garnered a lot of support for more advanced tactics for the players. It gives agents that want to more to do; it keeps them more involved in the actual game. It would also get rid of truly retarded shit like the blocking focus. What moron OL is going to focus on pass blocking when the QB just told him it's a run play in the huddle a mere 10 seconds ago? Gah, beyond stupid.
(http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=3198227 for the suggestions thread and http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=2253364 for an older thread related to the same issue).

On another point brought up, I completely agree re: WRs. They are definitely not worth 300 flex. Some games my WR sees a decent bit of action, some games he sees none at all. Competing with 4 other guys works out that way. On the other hand, my FB sees a ton of action and is a lot more entertaining to me than my WR. I personally will not buy another WR, it's just not worth the investment to me.

And finally (for now anyway), I definitely agree that in many games there are just way, way too many hurries/sacks. But that goes back to blocking being all sorts of screwed up (see AMEN above) and QBs not having the appropriate scramble/throw-on-the-run type abilities.

 
arvay7
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sim-related:

1. tone down the pcakes/revcakes - more pushing back and forth and less falling down

2. fix the ST pathing. i mean FIX IT. don't just adjust the go-ahead bias! That disregards the vision that is built into the returner's build AND the return man VA. just rewrite the logic. make the slider more sensitive. changes in the slider seem to NOTHING. /rant

3. make RBs slow down when running through a pile. it's ridiculous to see them step through people with seemingly little penalty

4. pump-fakes. i think a good way to solve this is not necessarily stop the defender completely, but maybe just cause a reduction to speed. irl, the defender might take a step in the direction of the fake before he corrects his path, but his momentum is still carrying him towards the receiver. a speed penalty for a couple ticks could simulate this effect, and the fake could be mitigated by the defender's vision (how many ticks the fake occupies) and agility (how quickly he recovers from the speed penalty).

non-sim:

1. make D-linemen (or at least D-tackles) 100 flex. Seriously, they cost way too much. There are glamor players on defense relative to flex. CBs, LBs, and Safeties are all more "fun" dots to watch than the guys in the trenches. if olinemen are 100, why not dline?
 
odg62
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I cant believe i forgot this one....

Stop with the running backs being able to go through a pile of 4-8 guys like they arent physical objects subject to the same laws of physics of everyone else and make them have to run around the 300 pound lineman right in front of them
 
odg62
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Originally posted by Staz
Oh man, do you bring up more points for me to bitch about lol


- Defenders react to passes in an ignorant way
- Jump routes less, and when they DO jump routes, allow more success (you shouldn't jump a route unless you've got the positioning)
- Deflected passes should be that, deflected. Either tell us the difference between a tip, deflection and swat, or make deflections actually DEFLECT the pass and alter it's direction
- Receivers should have to readjust to a pass when it's deflected


The point about jumping routes only when you have positioning is gold, even a bad CB dosent stop and and try to jump a route when a WR is 4 steps behind then already.

Stepping up on a pass IS NOT the only way to get an INT.
 
Staz
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Originally posted by odg62
I cant believe i forgot this one....

Stop with the running backs being able to go through a pile of 4-8 guys like they arent physical objects subject to the same laws of physics of everyone else and make them have to run around the 300 pound lineman right in front of them


On another point

- The bigger your player (weight and height) the more space he should take up. Dots can stay the same size, but there should be a "true size" within that dot. The larger the player, the bigger his "true size" is, and the more space he takes up. This would change the inside run game, blocking, getting through blocks, etc. towards a more realistic nature. If this is already the case, it sure doesn't seem like it.
 
blln4lyf
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Originally posted by blln4lyf
Sim changes needed:

-Spin not getting a bonus based on rushing setting making it ridiculously strong
-Pump Fake/Catch Fake/Look Off not having such a major effect on the defenders positioning when they trigger, they can trigger as often but thy shouldn't lead to almost auto completions on every deep pass.
-Deep passes still need worse pass quality
-The WR/CB interaction needs to be fixed so CB's don't cover any route but go routes very stupidly. For crossing routes they take horrendous angles.
-Inside Rushing needs a boost, it is still underpowered.

If the Fakes are less effective, the long passes have worse pass quality and the CB's actually cover crossing routes properly and inside rushing is buffed we will see a much more balanced sim than we have in a while.


There are more issues but I still think if you fix these(and check balance after doing so of course) we can have a more balanced season than we have had in a long time.
 
peacebringer
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Originally posted by blln4lyf
Originally posted by blln4lyf

Sim changes needed:

-Spin not getting a bonus based on rushing setting making it ridiculously strong
-Pump Fake/Catch Fake/Look Off not having such a major effect on the defenders positioning when they trigger, they can trigger as often but thy shouldn't lead to almost auto completions on every deep pass.
-Deep passes still need worse pass quality
-The WR/CB interaction needs to be fixed so CB's don't cover any route but go routes very stupidly. For crossing routes they take horrendous angles.
-Inside Rushing needs a boost, it is still underpowered.

If the Fakes are less effective, the long passes have worse pass quality and the CB's actually cover crossing routes properly and inside rushing is buffed we will see a much more balanced sim than we have in a while.


There are more issues but I still think if you fix these(and check balance after doing so of course) we can have a more balanced season than we have had in a long time.


perhaps, if the morale imbalance gets fixed as well.
Stamina needs to be improved and less reliant on distance.
 
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