Warrior General Games

Originally posted by RMiller517
i agree with your sentiment, but it also didn't make sense to me to have redundant VAs. tenacious, mr first down, and sym all seem to want to do the same thing. and now, none of them are particularly great.

thanks for the discussion catch.

Thats what VA's currently are...at least the good ones...a bunch of redundancy added with some small situational ones for extra benefit at the right time.

Originally posted by bhall43
Originally posted by Catch22

FYP. There are way more than 50 HB's that use Mr. First Down.

I don't know about that Catch...i guess you would know more than I. But I don't believe it. And they aren't on the top teams.

Read the fix to your post lol.

i know it wont be changed, but it would still make sense to me. why have bad VAs when you can have one decent VA that people will use. combine the new sym and mfd.

Originally posted by Sik Wit It
Read the fix to your post lol.

I read the fix. The VA is just not all that useful when measuring it up against all the other HB VA's.

Originally posted by bhall43
Originally posted by Sik Wit It

Read the fix to your post lol.

I read the fix. The VA is just not all that useful when measuring it up against all the other HB VA's.

Yeah, I know it's not. So did Catch. That's why he said there probably aren't 50 people who know what they're doing that chose the VA. I'm sure many have the VA, they just don't know what they're doing.

Originally posted by Sik Wit It
Yeah, I know it's not. So did Catch. That's why he said there probably aren't 50 people who know what they're doing that chose the VA. I'm sure many have the VA, they just don't know what they're doing.

Ah i get it now. (needs light bulb smiley)

Originally posted by RMiller517
i know it wont be changed, but it would still make sense to me. why have bad VAs when you can have one decent VA that people will use. combine the new sym and mfd.

I suggest. Short Yardage Monster: During 3rd and less than 3 yardage situations. Each level gives a +3% chance to be awarded an extra 1/2 yard when being tackled, if it would mean a first down as well as a 2% chance to break tackles behind the line of scrimmage.

Here's an update for you all:

Originally posted by Bort
Updated relentless pursuit SA to 2 seconds instead of 3

Also, changed SYM again:

4% to breaking tackles on inside runs, 4% to fakes and spin on outside runs.

Originally posted by TrevJo
It's a +% chance that stacks with Bruiser, or Slippery (and now Quick Feet), and +% break tackle equipment (and now +% fake chance equipment). You don't see a problem with it giving a big bonus, given that?

It's true that it doesn't work the whole play but do you WANT defenses to sit back and concede the first yard and focus on tackling a suddenly much weaker runner there? Instead of TRYING to make tackles behind the line of scrimmage?

this

Originally posted by TehKyou
I suggest. Short Yardage Monster: During 3rd and less than 3 yardage situations. Each level gives a +3% chance to be awarded an extra 1/2 yard when being tackled, if it would mean a first down as well as a 2% chance to break tackles behind the line of scrimmage.

well, neither SYM or MFD has a down requirement, so there's no reason for the new one to have one, imo. it goes against the point of making 2 bad VAs into a good VA. don't make 2 bad ones into 1 bad one.

that was the general idea of what i was going for, though.

Ironically, bort cagters to the WL, because that's what it would seem everyone wants.
We all slowbuild and claim that lolminors trophies don't matter.
What kind of message are we sending?

None of these updates will severely hurt balanced builds. They will only hurt slow builds who are buildign their players the "proper" way, just so we can be some WL dots at some point without all of the regrets that everyone has about their first dots.

We have to face the music. If we want to build dots for WL and make extreme builds who don't peak until around lvl 55, then we need to understand that our dots will be more affected by change then by builds who are competitive, and balanced in all relevant skills throughout their lives. That is the price we all pay to be perfect at the later levels.

We can't build for WL and then claim the minors don't matter and then get mad at changes that make the WL interaction better and the minors unbalanced. As much as we'd like to enjoy ALL seasons, if we don't build for ALL seasons, we have no reason to complain, because in my mind we're getting exactly what we're showing bort we want.

If ya'll want to give up slowbuilding, then sure, complain... but until we do, we have no say.

Originally posted by MileHighShoes
Ironically, bort cagters to the WL, because that's what it would seem everyone wants.
We all slowbuild and claim that lolminors trophies don't matter.
What kind of message are we sending?

None of these updates will severely hurt balanced builds. They will only hurt slow builds who are buildign their players the "proper" way, just so we can be some WL dots at some point without all of the regrets that everyone has about their first dots.

We have to face the music. If we want to build dots for WL and make extreme builds who don't peak until around lvl 55, then we need to understand that our dots will be more affected by change then by builds who are competitive, and balanced in all relevant skills throughout their lives. That is the price we all pay to be perfect at the later levels.

We can't build for WL and then claim the minors don't matter and then get mad at changes that make the WL interaction better and the minors unbalanced. As much as we'd like to enjoy ALL seasons, if we don't build for ALL seasons, we have no reason to complain, because in my mind we're getting exactly what we're showing bort we want.

If ya'll want to give up slowbuilding, then sure, complain... but until we do, we have no say.

A very good point. A lot of people have problems with balance at the low levels, yet everyone wants to slow build, which in most cases means really unbalanced players at low levels. You can't expect them to perform without the proper attributes.

Originally posted by Toriq
I guess the running game just isn't working well enough....

Maybe in WL where everything is severely distorted...but if this happens then why would anyone pass anymore in the lower leagues?

Speaking of WL... http://goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=1099629 is a joke game, btw.

Quite right. But isn't this the issue - the test server is only running WL builds (and almost perfect builds at that) - Bort and co are doing the testing and tweaking based on a setup that applies to only about 1% of the total players.

Originally posted by Sik Wit It
A very good point. A lot of people have problems with balance at the low levels, yet everyone wants to slow build, which in most cases means really unbalanced players at low levels. You can't expect them to perform without the proper attributes.

Many people don't want to slowbuild, they simply have no choice if they don't want to waste their time and money. The archetype system was a perfect opportunity to change it, but instead the existing structure was cemented into place presumably for all time.

Obviously, one way to amend (albeit slightly) would be for the sim to severely punish players with unbalanced builds which would reflect the reality of these builds. Then people would at least have a choice - be successful now or later.

It is the fact that slowbuild teams are competitive at lower levels which is the problem.