Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Warlock
There's at least two viable WR builds in the current sim... I know almost nothing about WRs, but I know this. Unless of course you're referring only to ALGs, in which case variety doesn't necessarily mean viable options.

The new archetypes provide MANY "viable" options, as will be evident when we get the archetype tests ran.

Coincidentally, the same people who think there is only one viable WR build are many of the same people complaining that passing hasn't worked for the past few seasons.

Pretty crazy stuff.

Originally posted by Staz
The new archetypes provide MANY "viable" options, as will be evident when we get the archetype tests ran.

Just like we have "viable" options in attribute selection, right? Here's a hint... a WR that cannot perform their role is not viable. Putting little archetype tags next to their position doesn't fix the positions inability to perform more than one role. Stacking +% helped players define their roles, meanwhile the imbalance in the attributes system does the exact opposite. Everyone will still flock to the same 3-4 attributes, because they're more effective than the other ones. Even within those good 3-4 attributes, the +% nerf will make half of those choices a step below the others. Welcome back to the days where speed was everything... when power backs used to break a tackle once every 10 carries (before VAs/AEQ) and 30 tackling was good enough (before power backs could consistently break tackles). Counters have to exist for more than one option to be viable. Yes I'm exaggerating to make a point, but the current trend in development doesn't give me any pause to think my exaggeration is impossible.

You honestly think that archetypes are going to fix the fundamental flaw in player development (aka attributes)? Obviously you must be pinning your hopes on the SA re-balancing... I'm not, because the development team is too worried about retarded shit like players being able to have money for max EQ upgrades instead.

A lot of work needs to be done before archetypes will be a decent system, removing +% stacking was a step in the wrong direction. It would be one thing if each attribute was balanced against each other attribute... making every SP have a set, relatively equal value... unfortunately that's not how things work currently or any time in the foreseeable future.

Originally posted by Maddoc
Coincidentally, the same people who think there is only one viable WR build are many of the same people complaining that passing hasn't worked for the past few seasons.

Pretty crazy stuff.

Oddly enough, they are usually the ones with 145 speed, 90 agility, and 60 catching, complaining that their WR can't catch for shit on 8-10 yard routes against a c2.

Originally posted by Warlock
Just like we have "viable" options in attribute selection, right? Here's a hint... a WR that cannot perform their role is not viable. Putting little archetype tags next to their position doesn't fix the positions inability to perform more than one role. Stacking +% helped players define their roles, meanwhile the imbalance in the attributes system does the exact opposite. Everyone will still flock to the same 3-4 attributes, because they're more effective than the other ones. Even within those good 3-4 attributes, the +% nerf will make half of those choices a step below the others. Welcome back to the days where speed was everything... when power backs used to break a tackle once every 10 carries (before VAs/AEQ) and 30 tackling was good enough (before power backs could consistently break tackles). Counters have to exist for more than one option to be viable. Yes I'm exaggerating to make a point, but the current trend in development doesn't give me any pause to think my exaggeration is impossible.

You honestly think that archetypes are going to fix the fundamental flaw in player development (aka attributes)? Obviously you must be pinning your hopes on the SA re-balancing... I'm not, because the development team is too worried about retarded shit like players being able to have money for max EQ upgrades instead.

A lot of work needs to be done before archetypes will be a decent system, removing +% stacking was a step in the wrong direction. It would be one thing if each attribute was balanced against each other attribute... making every SP have a set, relatively equal value... unfortunately that's not how things work currently or any time in the foreseeable future.

Or, I'm realizing that the variety of ALGs will provide players to have much more diverse options in terms of building an effective player. I have no idea where you're getting this "welcome back to the days" stuff. Do you really think power backs will go crazy when LBs and DBs now have the ability to gain more strength per level up? Or how about WRs being all about speed when the CBs covering them are able to become faster than they are?

Or do you honestly think people won't experiment with slower, more skilled receivers, and that they'll fail miserably with their 80+ catching, 68+ strength, and only 110ish speed, as opposed to their 140 Speed, 60 Catching and 48 strength?

tbh if anything is going to fuck over WRs its not going to be related to their own archetypes so much as CBs with just as much Speed/Agility/Vision as they have now but like 80 natural Strength.

Originally posted by Staz
Or, I'm realizing that the variety of ALGs will provide players to have much more diverse options in terms of building an effective player. I have no idea where you're getting this "welcome back to the days" stuff. Do you really think power backs will go crazy when LBs and DBs now have the ability to gain more strength per level up? Or how about WRs being all about speed when the CBs covering them are able to become faster than they are?

Or do you honestly think people won't experiment with slower, more skilled receivers, and that they'll fail miserably with their 80+ catching, 68+ strength, and only 110ish speed, as opposed to their 140 Speed, 60 Catching and 48 strength?

A variety of ALGs mean absolutely nothing, when the attributes themselves aren't balanced. Go ahead and experiment with less effective attributes, people have in the past and not been successful... this is because there's a handful of attributes that are vastly more effective than their counterparts.

Also, reading comprehension failure on your part. I said that power backs will be less effective from the +% nerf and the archetype thing only further nerf them (since it's easier to build a player to off-set the ALGs of said power back). This will somewhat force players into one build type, because that build will be more effective than it's counterparts. +% basically made certain attributes more powerful, thus indirectly balancing them to other attributes... like strength/carrying were as important to a HB as speed/agility, thus giving the HB more viable options. After the +% nerf and archetypes go into effect, speed/agility will be the cat's meow again.

It would be a cool change if say a WR actually benefited from having 80 catching (as opposed to 60 catching), but the cost to get 80 catching is no where near worth raising speed/agility from 60 to 80 (in effectiveness). Strength WRs are only effective because the vast majority of CBs are built to stop speedsters and they exploit the trend... +% also bridges the gap of speed somewhat (since speed gets no benefit from +% bonuses). This will change once the +% nerf and archetypes go into effect. In-fact, archetypes will make speed even more powerful, as some players experiment with non-speed intensive builds.

Just because a build type is possible, doesn't make it viable/effective.