Warrior General Games

Seems like a fairly obvious mistake. I'm not trying to get out of the way, I'm trying to go straight forward and knock people out of the way. Agility as a major means that I'm going to be able to cut and accelerate faster, but it limits my top speed... just seems like it should switch. Discuss.

Agility probably plays directly into the break tackle roll, whereas the speed attribute itself does not. Also, having speed and strength as majors would be way too powerful.

Originally posted by Longhornfan1024
Agility probably plays directly into the break tackle roll, whereas the speed attribute itself does not. Also, having speed and strength as majors would be way too powerful.

Both of those.

that is pretty much the correct reasoning.

Saying it's "too powerful" is not a legitimate reason imo. Majors should go to the attributes which are most important ie which are taken the highest, period. The vast majority of powerbacks take speed much higher than agility, which typically languishes.

What it means though is that we are going to have much more of a cookie-cutter Powerback. If you actually put all of the attributes that the HB would plan on using into the majors you will have some agents build speed/strength/carrying in that order, others will build strength/speed/carrying others will build strength/carrying/speed and others still will build carrying/speed/strength.

Under the current model, every player is going to go strength/carrying on their powerback.

Also Elusive has speed/agility/vision/carrying. Are you trying to tell me THAT isn't too powerful? Why not make speed a minor on the elusive build under the same argument.

Originally posted by Time Trial
Also Elusive has speed/agility/vision/carrying. Are you trying to tell me THAT isn't too powerful? Why not make speed a minor on the elusive build under the same argument.

Not the same thing, at all. Sorry.

Also, if you want a powerish back with more speed, thats why the combo archetype exists.

You can still push speed if you want to, since it is a minor. Moreover, you can make a combo back if you are that concerned about it. Having speed as a major instead of agility on the power archetype would render every other option pretty pointless.

I suppose that is why they took out jumping from the elusive HB? I would have thought that would have been a major since Bort says that jumping will vastly increase an elusive back's ability to avoid diving tackles.

Originally posted by Time Trial
I suppose that is why they took out jumping from the elusive HB? I would have thought that would have been a major since Bort says that jumping will vastly increase an elusive back's ability to avoid diving tackles.

He didn't say elusive backs, nor did he say vastly.

He said it had some contribution into all backs avoiding diving tackles.

Originally posted by jamz
He didn't say elusive backs, nor did he say vastly.

He said it had some contribution into all backs avoiding diving tackles.

Okay, I don't want to get off topic, but I'm wondering if Bort has signed off on the current incarnation of the builds? It just seems like he would want jumping in as a minor or major for someone who should be avoiding diving tackles.

Anyway, I am assuming that if you want balance and choice in this game you need to make different archetypes actually have the appropriate builds for how people are going to want to build them.

Power HB:

Strength, Carrying, Confidence - That's it. They would get 0.67 per level, and they would be slow and powerful.
Vision, Agility, Speed, Blocking, Stamina - 0.2 per level.

Combo HB:

Strength, Speed, Agility, Vision - 0.5 per level
Carrying, Blocking, Jumping, Confidence, Stamina - 0.2 per level.

Elusive HB:

Speed, Agility, Vision - .67 per level. Faster than a combo back, no carrying as a major so is vulnerable to big hits.
Carrying, Jumping, Confidence, Stamina - .25 per level

Those will actually let people build HBs in a way that truely differentiates them.

I find that with all of these changes to the archetypes that there is very little difference between a .4 per level gain and a .33 in the minors. .5 should really be the minimum for a major and .67 should be the maximum.

I think most everyone would be choosing Combo under your proposal - those aren't balanced.

Originally posted by TxSteve
I think most everyone would be choosing Combo under your proposal - those aren't balanced.

I disagree. The extra bonus to your majors at .67 versus .5 would make many people give the extremes as much viability. Especially with bonuses/penalties to the SAs.

Originally posted by Time Trial
Seems like a fairly obvious mistake. I'm not trying to get out of the way, I'm trying to go straight forward and knock people out of the way. Agility as a major means that I'm going to be able to cut and accelerate faster, but it limits my top speed... just seems like it should switch. Discuss.

Agility for a powerback means getting up to speed quicker after breaking the tackle. The powerback is rarely in the open field so his top end speed doesn't come into play much of the time, but his acceleration is critical. At least, logically speaking that's how it should work, how it works in the sim probably makes speed too important like every other position.

Speed and Strength on the same build is probably why powerbacks are overpowered in the current sim.

Originally posted by jamz
Not the same thing, at all. Sorry.

Also, if you want a powerish back with more speed, thats why the combo archetype exists.

But combo is turrible now.