Warrior General Games

Audibles are simply the ability to allow the HB, FB or TE to be kept in on blitzes when they aren't the primary target.

Originally posted by PP
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=1751
Both teams set to be able to keep the HB, FB & TE in and using QB Checkdown Order Override. TCTF is set so HB, FB & TE are never the primary and Jacks set so the the HB is on every play (except for TE Cross Slant, which was a screw up on my part)

It appears that the audibles aren't working the way they should with QB Checkdown enabled.
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1751&pbp_id=378651 (HB is the primary target, but stays in to block)
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1751&pbp_id=378660 (same...there's more, but you get the point)

Other than that, it appears to be working reasonably well...If anything, I think it works too well, in that it should probably hold a blocker in on occasion when there isn't a blitzer...should always be a "cost" on occasion to everything.

What's the mechanic involved? I would hope it's a vision check...and should take decent investment in vision to pass regularly.

Modified by the Spot Blitz SA and Blocking Back VA, too.

I don't have the answer to that. Bort has been MIA on the test server for a little while, but sent a message through Catch that he'll be there "soon addressing off season changes".

This could make it so that the Blocking Back and/or Pass Blocker VA's for FB's suddenly become much more useful.

Part of my point on the vision thing...backs, in general, rarely push past 60. I'd think that isn't enough to reliably guess this right in some situations (no idea what all the ones are, what modifies...), but my point is that wanting to be good at this should mean that a back should want over 60 vision.

Originally posted by pottsman
Part of my point on the vision thing...backs, in general, rarely push past 60. I'd think that isn't enough to reliably guess this right in some situations (no idea what all the ones are, what modifies...), but my point is that wanting to be good at this should mean that a back should want over 60 vision.

That's only about 8 points short of what most lineman do. They should be just a bit worse than OL in picking up the blitz if they have 60 vision.

Originally posted by pottsman
What's the mechanic involved? I would hope it's a vision check...and should take decent investment in vision to pass regularly.

Modified by the Spot Blitz SA and Blocking Back VA, too.

Totally agree with these.. needs a big vision check, and the Spot Blitz SA will become very useful if this gets implemented.

Originally posted by Frycicle
Originally posted by pottsman

Part of my point on the vision thing...backs, in general, rarely push past 60. I'd think that isn't enough to reliably guess this right in some situations (no idea what all the ones are, what modifies...), but my point is that wanting to be good at this should mean that a back should want over 60 vision.

That's only about 8 points short of what most lineman do. They should be just a bit worse than OL in picking up the blitz if they have 60 vision.

My point was more that currently backs can get away with incredibly low vision. I'm on 4 pro teams...of the builds open to me, 1 HB had under 30 vision, 2 in the 40s, 2 in the 50s, 4 in the low 60s. That guy under 30 better not see blitzes, and those guys in the low 60s, while capable, shouldn't be great at it.

Originally posted by pottsman
My point was more that currently backs can get away with incredibly low vision. I'm on 4 pro teams...of the builds open to me, 1 HB had under 30 vision, 2 in the 40s, 2 in the 50s, 4 in the low 60s. That guy under 30 better not see blitzes, and those guys in the low 60s, while capable, shouldn't be great at it.

I can totally see a 30 vision HB getting owned by blitzers but I didn't want the HBs to be nerfed just because they are HBs. See what I mean?

Also i do agree vision should be way more important. Bort needs to somehow tie it with better pathing.

Originally posted by pottsman
My point was more that currently backs can get away with incredibly low vision. I'm on 4 pro teams...of the builds open to me, 1 HB had under 30 vision, 2 in the 40s, 2 in the 50s, 4 in the low 60s. That guy under 30 better not see blitzes, and those guys in the low 60s, while capable, shouldn't be great at it.

why would the HB have to pass a vision check for an audible? a qb calls the audible.

So, based on the answers that you got, Tim, would it be safe to assume that keeping players back a bit on blitzes and "luring" QBs into throwing to a receiver by pulling the coverage back will become common practices?

Originally posted by Staz
So, based on the answers that you got, Tim, would it be safe to assume that keeping players back a bit on blitzes and "luring" QBs into throwing to a receiver by pulling the coverage back will become common practices?

It sounds like for reading blitzes, the QB reads who is actually blitzing and not position on the field. As for the hot reads, that seems lt is based on who is nearby. With this stated, it maybe useful if an OC has a tendency w/ the new packages to target WR3, to double cover the WR3 but do not have either DB near the WR3.

This test was run this morning to test both the Audibles (if the QB Checkdown Override now worked to make sure the primary went out for the pass) and the new targeting.

Originally posted by Bort

What I've added/modified:

- Slowed down QB checkdowns, especially on the first target. He should lock onto the first target for at least 3/4 of a second now, and then move on to others.
- I added the ability for a receiver to signal the QB that he's wide open down the field, assuming the QB passes a vision check for it. Since the QB is focusing on one target at a time now, he needed a way to shift his focus to a wide open guy.
- I added some extra stuff for QB's who have "dump often" set, where they will switch their focus to the HB or FB if pressure gets too hot and the back is still around the LOS or behind it.
- Put in the rest of the basic tactics spy options, with some description text on how it works.
- Dialed down encroachment
- Upped PD/Int chances


It looks kind of bad, but I think the open man targeting is p cool and just needs a few tweaks

Originally posted by PP
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=1780

The HB was set in the packages as the primary target and stayed in to block
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1780&pbp_id=384195
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1780&pbp_id=384196 (locked on WR3 so long because the primary stayed into block and the WR3 was 2nd so he became the 1st & 2nd target?)

Example of the open man being targeted? One the FB Out, I've got the QB Checkdown Order Override set to the following:
WR2, WR1, TE, HB, WR1
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1780&pbp_id=384198
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1780&pbp_id=384199

Flares
WR1 TE HB HB WR2
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1780&pbp_id=384200
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1780&pbp_id=384202 (Assume he ignored WR2 because the TE was open, but then didn't throw to him...came off to the HB at the end)
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1780&pbp_id=384206 (worked as ordered)

HB Streak
TE WR1 WR2 HB HB
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1780&pbp_id=384203
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1780&pbp_id=384204 (worked as ordered)
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1780&pbp_id=384205
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1780&pbp_id=384210

Double Fly
WR1 WR2 TE HB FB
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1780&pbp_id=384209

Thoughts:
When QB Checkdown Order Override sets the HB as the primary target, but the default play doesn't (not a HB pass as designed by the play), the HB is still staying in to blk.

That said, it appears that when the default play (HB Streak) is over ridden by QB Checkdown Order Override (making someone else the primary), the plays default target won't stay in to block, even though it has been over ridden (confusing wording: HB won't stay in to block on HB streak even though QB Checkdown Order Override has the TE set as the 1st target)

In the first 12 pass plays, it only followed the QB Checkdown Order Override as set twice (16.7%). Some of them made sense:
WR 3 uncovered at the line by the zone...worked perfectly
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1780&pbp_id=384195
TE wide open
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1780&pbp_id=384198

Some didn't:
Shouldn't come off of primary read for a HB behind the LOS.
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1780&pbp_id=384199
Debatable, but I don't think this one is worth pulling off for
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1780&pbp_id=384203
same as above
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1780&pbp_id=384205
See no reason here
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1780&pbp_id=384210

Unless uncovered (as the case was with the TE & WR in the 2 working good examples above), I don't think the open man over ride should kick in until the 2nd target on. I suspect that'd fix most of this.

There are several issues with this play (for sake of argument, forget QB Checkdown Order Override issues). Because he was targeted and open, the HB should have gotten the pass (I believe that's the QB needs to have a target being open override everything else in his risk calculations thing I keep nagging about). Next, he should have dumped the ball to the TE as soon as he targeted him, when he was open. Again, I think it didn't happen because of relatively low catching (purposefully put the blocking TE to test that) and that being wide open needs to be prioritized more in whether the QB throws or not...Different from whether the QB reads the target. QB read both, but I believe the risk assessment screwed both up.
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1780&pbp_id=384199
another example of it...notice that the pass is really to the HB, when the TE was soooo wide (TE relatively low catching)
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1780&pbp_id=384202

Sorry to keep harping on that, but, if a target is wide open and targeted by the QB, they flat out need to get the pass, with the possible exception of when it's a down and distance thing, but I think that's even debatable.

Originally posted by PP
This test was run this morning to test both the Audibles (if the QB Checkdown Override now worked to make sure the primary went out for the pass) and the new targeting.
Originally posted by Bort

- Dialed down encroachment
- Upped PD/Int chances


Does my eye deceive me, or is this an nice buff to the Defense.


That you PP for bringing up the encroachment issue and the extra bonus w/ PD/INT's.