Warrior General Games

Originally posted by eaglesfan20
well put together Kirghiz and i definitely like this

would love to see this happen

Was your idea that gave me this one.

glad to see i could bring out that well put together idea
like i said it looks great and would love to see this happen

+1

Excellent idea!!! I would love to see this implemented.

Good idea on placement of the options.

You need to expand a bit more on the block progression dynamics. Does the player automatically know who to block based on progression, or does he have to make vision checks down the line? If he fails his vision check, what happens? Does he block that guy even if he's not blitzing? Does he fall back to "block anyone?" Does he stand around and wait to look at the next guy? The block progression there works differently than the current method, that looks at player x/y position, not their position they are playing.

Originally posted by Bort
Good idea on placement of the options.

You need to expand a bit more on the block progression dynamics. Does the player automatically know who to block based on progression, or does he have to make vision checks down the line? If he fails his vision check, what happens? Does he block that guy even if he's not blitzing? Does he fall back to "block anyone?" Does he stand around and wait to look at the next guy? The block progression there works differently than the current method, that looks at player x/y position, not their position they are playing.

Perhaps in addition to specific guys, there can be a 'most dangerous man left' and 'most dangerous man right' or something to that effect.

Originally posted by Bort
Good idea on placement of the options.

You need to expand a bit more on the block progression dynamics. Does the player automatically know who to block based on progression, or does he have to make vision checks down the line? If he fails his vision check, what happens? Does he block that guy even if he's not blitzing? Does he fall back to "block anyone?" Does he stand around and wait to look at the next guy? The block progression there works differently than the current method, that looks at player x/y position, not their position they are playing.

http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=3647409 - from this thread i had started earlier

i think this is where he was going


Originally posted by Kirghiz
Yeah, something along those lines was what I was thinking.
ROLB -> RDE -> MLB -> DT

HB checks the ROLB, if he isn't blitzing he than checks the RDE, and if the LOT is having trouble he goes and helps him out. If the LOT has him contained, he would than check the MLB, and move on to the DT.



i also think maybe you do the vision checks and say a player fails the vision check he could go in that direction to block a player that is not blitzing because he failed the check or have him move on to the next guy having him possibly miss a block of a blitzer that he didnt see based on his vision check

and maybe have an option in the check list where you can have the back stay close to the QB as a zone type play where he waits for the player that poses the biggest threat to the QB to block him

Originally posted by Bort
Good idea on placement of the options.

You need to expand a bit more on the block progression dynamics. Does the player automatically know who to block based on progression, or does he have to make vision checks down the line? If he fails his vision check, what happens? Does he block that guy even if he's not blitzing? Does he fall back to "block anyone?" Does he stand around and wait to look at the next guy? The block progression there works differently than the current method, that looks at player x/y position, not their position they are playing.

Well, I think the blocking options are totally over the top to implement something like this right away, but at the very least..

1) make all plays have a HB/FB/TE route (plz)
2) have the QB progression options

I would assume that is the first step toward this ultimate goal, and let the blocking code take care of itself. Don't launch two systems at once, they always say... and the pass options seem to be a sim priority.

Would be pretty darn sweet, though, that's for sure - and intuitive on the user level.

This does pose one problem - this is designed for a package. How do casual leagues use this (or are they stuck with normal plays?), and how do non-package OCs deal with this? Make the updates in the playbook? Basically you could have the playbook viewable like the packages instead of current format, so you could customize your playbook and then let that be applied everywhere.

Then, when you pull a play from a playbook into your packages, it pre-loads what you had set in the playbook, but also gives the option to make minor adjustments (all run routes on 3rd and long, keep a blocker in 1st down, for the same play, etc..)

Originally posted by Bort
Good idea on placement of the options.

You need to expand a bit more on the block progression dynamics. Does the player automatically know who to block based on progression, or does he have to make vision checks down the line? If he fails his vision check, what happens? Does he block that guy even if he's not blitzing? Does he fall back to "block anyone?" Does he stand around and wait to look at the next guy? The block progression there works differently than the current method, that looks at player x/y position, not their position they are playing.

In the example I had "ROLB -> RDE -> MLB -> DT -> Any" I think.

The back would make a vision check at the snap to determine if the first progression is blitzing. If he fails the check and the player is blitzing, he misses the blitz read and moves to the next progression, missing the blitz pick up. He can make another check later to pick it up after he misses it, but at that point it is probably going to be too late to make a block on the blitzer. If the player is not blitzing and he fails the check he would step up to block him for a tick or so, but ultimately would move on to the next progression because eventually he'll figure out that he isn't coming. Basically in that instance he would hesitate in moving to the next blitz read, perhaps taking a step out of position as well. Eventually he should move on to the next progression, but not without some hesitation and maybe moving the wrong way. He could still conceivably make the block after failing the first vision check, but the hesitation from failing that check can make the difference in the QB getting pressured or not.

Regardless though, he should still be able to move along the progression chain even if he fails a check here and there. It is just a matter of how quickly he moves along the blitz read progression, and where he is on the field in relation to that blitzer after he fails some of these checks. Once he makes the read he still has to make an engage block roll and a hold block roll, so hesitation reading the blitz can cost him making these two rolls by being out of position. If he sees him coming, but not in time to get in proper blocking position he can have a penalty applied to the engage block roll, and the blitzer could run right over him.

At the end of the progression chain I think "Any" should be required though so the back isn't just standing around wondering what to do. He knows his assignment is to protect the QB, so he is going to at least try to block someone, though it could end up being someone that isn't the biggest threat to the QB.

There is really a hundred different possibilities that can happen by failing a vision check, and none of them are particularly good. It is why teams in the real world want their every down back to be competent pass blockers, and why backs that aren't competent pass blockers get pulled on 3rd down. Basically what we have here is a coach being able to see a threat on film, say Lawrence Taylor at ROLB, and than being able to tell their back that Lawrence Taylor is the best pass rushing linebacker in the league and they should watch him first because he is likely the biggest threat to the passer on any given pass play.

Originally posted by Octowned

This does pose one problem - this is designed for a package. How do casual leagues use this (or are they stuck with normal plays?), and how do non-package OCs deal with this? Make the updates in the playbook? Basically you could have the playbook viewable like the packages instead of current format, so you could customize your playbook and then let that be applied everywhere.

To be fair, it wasn't really made with casual in mind. If you start applying things like this to casual leagues they would really stop being casual. It could be done at the playbook level I suppose for casuals, but I am not sure that is a can of worms that should be opened simply because it stops being Casual, or "GLB Classic", however you like to think of the casual game play.

That's a pretty good rundown I think, Kirghiz, thanks for that input.

Would you have these options as a per-output option as well, or just on packages? Seems like you'd need them in the output as well, since packages are basically a collection of outputs.

For the QB progression idea, it might also make sense to somehow add that at the playbook level, so that you could set a particular play to have a different progression all the time, as opposed to having to set it every time in your package. Also, with your interface, there's no way to select "use play default." That would need to show up somehow.

Great idea!!!!

Wow, great idea! And I agree with Octowned, let's start with the QB progression first and add the blocking later since that is more complex.