I think the %pass rate is kinda low, considering they also have to win the blocking rolls afterwards as well. Having enough vision, strength, and blocking, while at the same time being able to carry your responsibility as the running back seems a very difficult.
Forum > Test Server Discussion > Bort speak from the test server
JTD
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Originally posted by TehKyou
I think the %pass rate is kinda low, considering they also have to win the blocking rolls afterwards as well. Having enough vision, strength, and blocking, while at the same time being able to carry your responsibility as the running back seems a very difficult.
Pick up the blocking back VA then if your really worried about it. FB's should be able to easily pick this one up. HBs might have to sacrifice to pick it up.
Originally posted by
Blocking Back
This back is a good pass blocker. Each level of Blocking Back gives a +5% bonus to the vision checks required to see blitzing defenders coming on pass plays, when playing HB or FB.
So a 75% boost to those checks should mean you pick up the blitz 87.5% of the time with 60 vision if Bort's numbers are correct. Seems like a fair trade off is already in place there.
I think the %pass rate is kinda low, considering they also have to win the blocking rolls afterwards as well. Having enough vision, strength, and blocking, while at the same time being able to carry your responsibility as the running back seems a very difficult.
Pick up the blocking back VA then if your really worried about it. FB's should be able to easily pick this one up. HBs might have to sacrifice to pick it up.
Originally posted by
Blocking Back
This back is a good pass blocker. Each level of Blocking Back gives a +5% bonus to the vision checks required to see blitzing defenders coming on pass plays, when playing HB or FB.
So a 75% boost to those checks should mean you pick up the blitz 87.5% of the time with 60 vision if Bort's numbers are correct. Seems like a fair trade off is already in place there.
Hikariu
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Originally posted by TehKyou
I think the %pass rate is kinda low, considering they also have to win the blocking rolls afterwards as well. Having enough vision, strength, and blocking, while at the same time being able to carry your responsibility as the running back seems a very difficult.
Not only do they have to win it, but they have to actually get in place to make a block after seeing it. That's that hard part, IMO
I think the %pass rate is kinda low, considering they also have to win the blocking rolls afterwards as well. Having enough vision, strength, and blocking, while at the same time being able to carry your responsibility as the running back seems a very difficult.
Not only do they have to win it, but they have to actually get in place to make a block after seeing it. That's that hard part, IMO
PP
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This was from about a week ago or so. I was confused by the targeting progression in my tests and asked what the difference between an Open Man read, Hot Read and Dump Off was.
The Open Man read can occur when a WR/TE/HB/FB that is running a route and is listed as a target anywhere on the QB's Override list or on all plays using default targeting. If there isn't a defender within 5 yards of him (Bort may have reduced that distance some), he can send out an Open Man signal. If the QB passes the vision check, he sees it and automatically moves him up the check down order.
Originally posted by Bort
Hot Read: before the snap, the QB looks around and sees if somebody's uncovered (including nearby zone guys). If somebody's got 0 coverage, he gets bumped up the priority.
Dump Off: When pressure gets too high, he'll look for the quick outlet HB/FB behind or near the LOS to dump to instead of throwing it away.
These are both pending on vision checks of course.
I'll check out the FB assignment on the play; possible typo or something.
The Open Man read can occur when a WR/TE/HB/FB that is running a route and is listed as a target anywhere on the QB's Override list or on all plays using default targeting. If there isn't a defender within 5 yards of him (Bort may have reduced that distance some), he can send out an Open Man signal. If the QB passes the vision check, he sees it and automatically moves him up the check down order.
Originally posted by Bort
Hot Read: before the snap, the QB looks around and sees if somebody's uncovered (including nearby zone guys). If somebody's got 0 coverage, he gets bumped up the priority.
Dump Off: When pressure gets too high, he'll look for the quick outlet HB/FB behind or near the LOS to dump to instead of throwing it away.
These are both pending on vision checks of course.
I'll check out the FB assignment on the play; possible typo or something.
Edited by PP on Feb 5, 2010 11:13:16
Tigerbait0307
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Originally posted by PP
This was from about a week ago or so. I was confused by the targeting progression in my tests and asked what the difference between an Open Man read, Hot Read and Dump Off was.
The Open Man read can occur when a WR/TE/HB/FB that is running a route and is listed as a target anywhere on the QB's Override list or on all plays using default targeting. If there isn't a defender within 5 yards of him (Bort may have reduced that distance some), he can send out an Open Man signal. If the QB passes the vision check, he sees it and automatically moves him up the check down order.
I was wondering why my QB would never throw to the open RB.
This was from about a week ago or so. I was confused by the targeting progression in my tests and asked what the difference between an Open Man read, Hot Read and Dump Off was.
The Open Man read can occur when a WR/TE/HB/FB that is running a route and is listed as a target anywhere on the QB's Override list or on all plays using default targeting. If there isn't a defender within 5 yards of him (Bort may have reduced that distance some), he can send out an Open Man signal. If the QB passes the vision check, he sees it and automatically moves him up the check down order.
I was wondering why my QB would never throw to the open RB.
Edited by Tigerbait0307 on Feb 6, 2010 11:44:33
PP
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I don't know if this will be changed or not. I suggested it shouldn't be until Run becomes an option on the Override list. Figured everyone should know this, though
Originally posted by Catch22
If you target a back whose default action is to block and select him for all the custom progressions, the play turns into a running play for the QB. Not sure it's an exploit per se but probably shouldn't be able to target a player who can't go out for a route:
Here the play is Pro Set Post Corner and the progressions are set to HB-HB-HB-HB-HB - well since the HB stays in to block, he never goes out for a route so the QB ends up running the ball:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1002477&pbp_id=3343704
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1002477&pbp_id=3343483
Oh, and Bort was asked if Clutch works for Special Teams
Originally posted by Bort
Any time it's 3rd or 4th down. Kickoffs are not 3rd or 4th down, but Punts are.
Originally posted by Catch22
If you target a back whose default action is to block and select him for all the custom progressions, the play turns into a running play for the QB. Not sure it's an exploit per se but probably shouldn't be able to target a player who can't go out for a route:
Here the play is Pro Set Post Corner and the progressions are set to HB-HB-HB-HB-HB - well since the HB stays in to block, he never goes out for a route so the QB ends up running the ball:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1002477&pbp_id=3343704
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1002477&pbp_id=3343483
Oh, and Bort was asked if Clutch works for Special Teams
Originally posted by Bort
Any time it's 3rd or 4th down. Kickoffs are not 3rd or 4th down, but Punts are.
JTD
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Any idea on what the hell Clutch actually does PP? Im not sure we need hard numbers, but just a general test of mirrored teams where the only thing different between the two of them is that one team had clutch and the other didnt. Maybe run that type of game 5-10 times and look at the results to see if we can see any differences even if its just that the clutch team seemed to win more often, get more first downs, more 3rd down stops, etc....
PP
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Originally posted by JTD
Any idea on what the hell Clutch actually does PP? Im not sure we need hard numbers, but just a general test of mirrored teams where the only thing different between the two of them is that one team had clutch and the other didnt. Maybe run that type of game 5-10 times and look at the results to see if we can see any differences even if its just that the clutch team seemed to win more often, get more first downs, more 3rd down stops, etc....
We're really not supposed to do that, but I believe Catch will be testing all the SAs this ssn and suggesting a buff, where applicable (At least I asked if he could and he didn't tell me hell no
)
As far as what it does, I really don't know any more than what it says in its description
Any idea on what the hell Clutch actually does PP? Im not sure we need hard numbers, but just a general test of mirrored teams where the only thing different between the two of them is that one team had clutch and the other didnt. Maybe run that type of game 5-10 times and look at the results to see if we can see any differences even if its just that the clutch team seemed to win more often, get more first downs, more 3rd down stops, etc....
We're really not supposed to do that, but I believe Catch will be testing all the SAs this ssn and suggesting a buff, where applicable (At least I asked if he could and he didn't tell me hell no
)As far as what it does, I really don't know any more than what it says in its description
Originally posted by PP
I don't know if this will be changed or not. I suggested it shouldn't be until Run becomes an option on the Override list. Figured everyone should know this, though
Originally posted by Catch22
If you target a back whose default action is to block and select him for all the custom progressions, the play turns into a running play for the QB. Not sure it's an exploit per se but probably shouldn't be able to target a player who can't go out for a route:
Here the play is Pro Set Post Corner and the progressions are set to HB-HB-HB-HB-HB - well since the HB stays in to block, he never goes out for a route so the QB ends up running the ball:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1002477&pbp_id=3343704
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1002477&pbp_id=3343483
Thanks for that update, it is definitely good to know.
I don't know if this will be changed or not. I suggested it shouldn't be until Run becomes an option on the Override list. Figured everyone should know this, though
Originally posted by Catch22
If you target a back whose default action is to block and select him for all the custom progressions, the play turns into a running play for the QB. Not sure it's an exploit per se but probably shouldn't be able to target a player who can't go out for a route:
Here the play is Pro Set Post Corner and the progressions are set to HB-HB-HB-HB-HB - well since the HB stays in to block, he never goes out for a route so the QB ends up running the ball:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1002477&pbp_id=3343704
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=1002477&pbp_id=3343483
Thanks for that update, it is definitely good to know.
pottsman
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Originally posted by JTD
Any idea on what the hell Clutch actually does PP? Im not sure we need hard numbers, but just a general test of mirrored teams where the only thing different between the two of them is that one team had clutch and the other didnt. Maybe run that type of game 5-10 times and look at the results to see if we can see any differences even if its just that the clutch team seemed to win more often, get more first downs, more 3rd down stops, etc....
The best I can give you -
Forum > Goal Line Blitz > Does clutch really cause SAs and other VAs to activate more often
Originally posted by Bort
On 3rd/4th down and late game situations, yes!
http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=2870952&page=1#24534485
Forum > Goal Line Blitz > Does clutch really cause SAs and other VAs to activate more often
Originally posted by Bort
On 3rd/4th down and late game situations, yes!
http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=2870952&page=1#24534485
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by WestbrookFTW
What would a "clutch" bonus be on a FS? Seeing the play beforehand and stopping the man before the first down? Just need a little clarification before I spend my VAs
Vision checks, pass deflection checks, intercept check, force fumble and make tackle would be the most relevant.
Of course, the other guy gets his chance to counteract with his clutch ability if he has it, to break tackles, make catches, etc.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=1743289&page=8#14222367
Any idea on what the hell Clutch actually does PP? Im not sure we need hard numbers, but just a general test of mirrored teams where the only thing different between the two of them is that one team had clutch and the other didnt. Maybe run that type of game 5-10 times and look at the results to see if we can see any differences even if its just that the clutch team seemed to win more often, get more first downs, more 3rd down stops, etc....
The best I can give you -
Forum > Goal Line Blitz > Does clutch really cause SAs and other VAs to activate more often
Originally posted by Bort
On 3rd/4th down and late game situations, yes!
http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=2870952&page=1#24534485
Forum > Goal Line Blitz > Does clutch really cause SAs and other VAs to activate more often
Originally posted by Bort
On 3rd/4th down and late game situations, yes!
http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=2870952&page=1#24534485
Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by WestbrookFTW
What would a "clutch" bonus be on a FS? Seeing the play beforehand and stopping the man before the first down? Just need a little clarification before I spend my VAs
Vision checks, pass deflection checks, intercept check, force fumble and make tackle would be the most relevant.
Of course, the other guy gets his chance to counteract with his clutch ability if he has it, to break tackles, make catches, etc.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=1743289&page=8#14222367
Meatdawg
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Bort commented on the Pass Rusher VA in the Test Forum. I have this VA on my DT http://goallineblitz.com/game/player.pl?player_id=684233
If you want to watch him this season and gauge how he performs on 3rd down we can then decide if it is working, not working, or just not effective.
He runs a few different equipment sets, but his base Str and Agl are 92. Using this VA should give him a base str/agl of 120. (eq not factored in yet)
Hopefully this will end the discussion as to if it is working, not working, or just not effective. I asked Catch22 if I had the permission to do this, and he said as long as I make everything public, he has no problem with it.
Originally posted by Deathblade
jack up the percents to 300 to prove it works
Originally posted by Bort
LOL, just tried it and added a speed boost as well...my DE teleported off the screen on 3rd down.
Originally posted by Bort
I dunno...maybe it's the whole offsetting thing.
Or maybe it somehow only applies to some 3rd downs or something...actually, I wonder if players getting held up by failing their initial vision check aren't getting the bonus...nah, it clears those bonuses every tick and reapplies them. When their action changes to tackle, it should start applying.
Originally posted by Bort
It's definitely not as easy to notice the difference; not like you'll move faster or anything. You should just probably get a few more broken blocks on 3rd down, etc.
Originally posted by Bort
Actually now that I am looking at it again, it wonder might only apply against certain plays...depending on the case I used in the play definition. If the play definition (or data in memory) is 'qb' instead of "QB" it wouldn't match. I doubt it's the case, since plays all use upper case for player definitions, but there could be a play or two in there where I typed qB instead or something. I tend to normalize case when parsing data, or use a regular expression to match, but this is a straight string comparison so there is potential for that there. I can normalize case here too, to make sure.
Originally posted by Bort
Well, I've tried doing both those things as a safeguard. If there were instances of it not working due to some oddity like that, they'd be fixed now. Let me know if you notice any difference on players who have it.
Originally posted by tautology
Here, or on the live server?
Originally posted by Bort
Both
If you want to watch him this season and gauge how he performs on 3rd down we can then decide if it is working, not working, or just not effective.
He runs a few different equipment sets, but his base Str and Agl are 92. Using this VA should give him a base str/agl of 120. (eq not factored in yet)
Hopefully this will end the discussion as to if it is working, not working, or just not effective. I asked Catch22 if I had the permission to do this, and he said as long as I make everything public, he has no problem with it.
Originally posted by Deathblade
jack up the percents to 300 to prove it works
Originally posted by Bort
LOL, just tried it and added a speed boost as well...my DE teleported off the screen on 3rd down.
Originally posted by Bort
I dunno...maybe it's the whole offsetting thing.
Or maybe it somehow only applies to some 3rd downs or something...actually, I wonder if players getting held up by failing their initial vision check aren't getting the bonus...nah, it clears those bonuses every tick and reapplies them. When their action changes to tackle, it should start applying.
Originally posted by Bort
It's definitely not as easy to notice the difference; not like you'll move faster or anything. You should just probably get a few more broken blocks on 3rd down, etc.
Originally posted by Bort
Actually now that I am looking at it again, it wonder might only apply against certain plays...depending on the case I used in the play definition. If the play definition (or data in memory) is 'qb' instead of "QB" it wouldn't match. I doubt it's the case, since plays all use upper case for player definitions, but there could be a play or two in there where I typed qB instead or something. I tend to normalize case when parsing data, or use a regular expression to match, but this is a straight string comparison so there is potential for that there. I can normalize case here too, to make sure.
Originally posted by Bort
Well, I've tried doing both those things as a safeguard. If there were instances of it not working due to some oddity like that, they'd be fixed now. Let me know if you notice any difference on players who have it.
Originally posted by tautology
Here, or on the live server?
Originally posted by Bort
Both
ijg
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Originally posted by Meatdawg
Originally posted by Bort
LOL, just tried it and added a speed boost as well...my DE teleported off the screen on 3rd down.
So why doesn't the speed script show this boost? Many of us have tested it in the past and speed script shows no change with and w/o the VA (used preseason resets to add and remove it off same player, so was comping apples & apples).
This is a really simple test. Run a set of games with VA on. Check speed script for 3rd down vs 1st and 2nd. Run another set of games with VA off. Repeat speed script analysis.
Originally posted by Bort
LOL, just tried it and added a speed boost as well...my DE teleported off the screen on 3rd down.
So why doesn't the speed script show this boost? Many of us have tested it in the past and speed script shows no change with and w/o the VA (used preseason resets to add and remove it off same player, so was comping apples & apples).
This is a really simple test. Run a set of games with VA on. Check speed script for 3rd down vs 1st and 2nd. Run another set of games with VA off. Repeat speed script analysis.
TrevJo
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Originally posted by ijg
So why doesn't the speed script show this boost? Many of us have tested it in the past and speed script shows no change with and w/o the VA (used preseason resets to add and remove it off same player, so was comping apples & apples).
This is a really simple test. Run a set of games with VA on. Check speed script for 3rd down vs 1st and 2nd. Run another set of games with VA off. Repeat speed script analysis.
I wouldn't expect it to show up in your speed because it's an agility and strength bonus. I imagine the vast majority of DEs have enough agility already that adding more of it is not going to affect their speed in a pass rush much. Thus Bort temporarily adding a speed boost when testing in order to be able to see it. JMHO.
So why doesn't the speed script show this boost? Many of us have tested it in the past and speed script shows no change with and w/o the VA (used preseason resets to add and remove it off same player, so was comping apples & apples).
This is a really simple test. Run a set of games with VA on. Check speed script for 3rd down vs 1st and 2nd. Run another set of games with VA off. Repeat speed script analysis.
I wouldn't expect it to show up in your speed because it's an agility and strength bonus. I imagine the vast majority of DEs have enough agility already that adding more of it is not going to affect their speed in a pass rush much. Thus Bort temporarily adding a speed boost when testing in order to be able to see it. JMHO.
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