Basically, he should have put the info in the "Testing Information" forum instead of "Live issues being investigated" forum. I don't exactly know why these two testing sub-forums are housed under the Bugs forum umbrella anyway. But, all in all, I do appreciate the test to get more info on the chem. effect.
Forum > Test Server Discussion > Test Sever Test Results: Team Chemistry Test
Staz
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Can we get this sort of thing posted for every test from now on? What's the word on a test blog?
Joe Buck
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Originally posted by Signalsgt
Originally posted by sbuck143
Why would the testers try to reverse engineer the sim? Because Bort isn't sharing the code with the testers.
He doesn't need to share the code since most people can't read it. However divulging the variables and the equation would, I don't know, be helpful.
thank you literalman.
That's what I meant. The reason the testers would try is because they are in the dark as we are as to the formulas and equations.
I fully agree that divulging the variables would be helpful to any *meaningful* test program. Which means pretty much divorcing the testers from owning / playing on the live server.
Originally posted by sbuck143
Why would the testers try to reverse engineer the sim? Because Bort isn't sharing the code with the testers.
He doesn't need to share the code since most people can't read it. However divulging the variables and the equation would, I don't know, be helpful.
thank you literalman.
That's what I meant. The reason the testers would try is because they are in the dark as we are as to the formulas and equations.I fully agree that divulging the variables would be helpful to any *meaningful* test program. Which means pretty much divorcing the testers from owning / playing on the live server.
cwrujosh
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Originally posted by sbuck143
Cwrujosh (Case western reserve?!?!?) -
I respectfully disagree. The intent of the test is to isolate chemistrys effect on the same team all other things being equal. You can take those results and extrapolate them to deduce effects vs different leveled teams.
No, you can't extrapolate them because you are changing the parameters. The test simply proved that among exactly the same teams, the one with better chemistry is better. Nothing else cannot be extrapolated from this. The more valuable test is whether a slightly underleveled team with better chem can beat a higher leveled one with worse.
Cwrujosh (Case western reserve?!?!?) -
I respectfully disagree. The intent of the test is to isolate chemistrys effect on the same team all other things being equal. You can take those results and extrapolate them to deduce effects vs different leveled teams.
No, you can't extrapolate them because you are changing the parameters. The test simply proved that among exactly the same teams, the one with better chemistry is better. Nothing else cannot be extrapolated from this. The more valuable test is whether a slightly underleveled team with better chem can beat a higher leveled one with worse.
Cylon
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Originally posted by cwrujosh
The test simply proved that among exactly the same teams, the one with better chemistry is better. Nothing else cannot be extrapolated from this. The more valuable test is whether a slightly underleveled team with better chem can beat a higher leveled one with worse.
I don't even think it proved that since, as another post pointed out, the same team won all four games even though the teams are the same. The RNG plays a role in that, I also assume the exact same AI was used but randomness plays a role in that as well, but with the small sample it doesn't really lead to anything I'd call conclusive. The team that won before won by a larger larger margin with twice as much chemistry so I conclude the RNG favors that team.
Totally agree with you on your point on more valuable test statement and hope there's follow up because I for one don't believe chemistry helps much. Before I figured it only helped if two even teams played each other and there was a drastic difference between the two teams chemistry but the test results don't support that either.
The test simply proved that among exactly the same teams, the one with better chemistry is better. Nothing else cannot be extrapolated from this. The more valuable test is whether a slightly underleveled team with better chem can beat a higher leveled one with worse.
I don't even think it proved that since, as another post pointed out, the same team won all four games even though the teams are the same. The RNG plays a role in that, I also assume the exact same AI was used but randomness plays a role in that as well, but with the small sample it doesn't really lead to anything I'd call conclusive. The team that won before won by a larger larger margin with twice as much chemistry so I conclude the RNG favors that team.
Totally agree with you on your point on more valuable test statement and hope there's follow up because I for one don't believe chemistry helps much. Before I figured it only helped if two even teams played each other and there was a drastic difference between the two teams chemistry but the test results don't support that either.
Last edited Mar 30, 2009 18:57:48
chappy2235
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For a valid test, I think the teams and AI should be identical. Each team should have its chemistry dropped in case their is a secret variable that makes one team better.
I don't think it is any big revelation that a team with 100 100 100 is better than a team with 50 50 50. I'd like to see something like a 90 90 90 vs a 70 70 70 and see if the 90 90 90 always wins.
I don't think it is any big revelation that a team with 100 100 100 is better than a team with 50 50 50. I'd like to see something like a 90 90 90 vs a 70 70 70 and see if the 90 90 90 always wins.
Norsemanvike
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Originally posted by chappy2235
For a valid test, I think the teams and AI should be identical. Each team should have its chemistry dropped in case their is a secret variable that makes one team better.
I don't think it is any big revelation that a team with 100 100 100 is better than a team with 50 50 50. I'd like to see something like a 90 90 90 vs a 70 70 70 and see if the 90 90 90 always wins.
Both AI's were identical, exact and we wouldn't do the 70 70 70 or 90 90 90 tests because that would essentially be the same is build testing, which is unethical and prohibited by Bort.
For a valid test, I think the teams and AI should be identical. Each team should have its chemistry dropped in case their is a secret variable that makes one team better.
I don't think it is any big revelation that a team with 100 100 100 is better than a team with 50 50 50. I'd like to see something like a 90 90 90 vs a 70 70 70 and see if the 90 90 90 always wins.
Both AI's were identical, exact and we wouldn't do the 70 70 70 or 90 90 90 tests because that would essentially be the same is build testing, which is unethical and prohibited by Bort.
AngryDragon
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I wonder if there is a way to test this in the playoffs. I seem to remember that moral and chemistry counted more in the playoffs. Is this still true or am I just mistaken?
Telfair31013
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"In conclusion, I believe that team chemistry has a larger affect in a team's performance than most people realize."
only thing that didn't make my head spin
only thing that didn't make my head spin
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