We track sacks, we track hurries. What we need are when the QB gets hit as he throws. It should lower morale more than hurries, and have a very good chance of lowering pass quality. Also, Big/Monster Hit should be able to activate on these.
From another thread, reads better than mine
Originally posted by ijg
I don't want this to be another "why can't DEs have 80 sacks" vs. "why can't DEs ever get a sack" thread. What I think I've come up with is the middle ground in the passing game.
QBs have 5, 6, 7, 8 seconds to pass since the changes to DE this season. That is just as unrealistic as 80 sacks and that's why the passing game is very had to stop this season. The biggest reason a great college QB becomes an NFL bust is because they can't perform when they're getting hit all the time.
What needs to happen is to have more pressure on the QB without it being a sack fest. The most realistic way to do that is to add more hits & knock downs on the QB as they throw or just after the throw. That is how real football works anyway.
Someone more ambitious than be please do some research, but I would guess most NFL QBs are sacked, hurried, or hit on 1/3 of their throws, maybe more, with the hits being the biggest category. Also, I would guess close to 1/2 of INTs are a QB rushing a throw to avoid a hit or having their throwing motion affected by a hit.
By putting in hits on the QB, you add lots of new elements to the sim...the nerfed DEs can play a role again, blitzing becomes more realistic because often the goal is to hit the QB to bring down his "morale" or to force a bad throw more than it is to actually get the sack. I know Bort has some effect on pass quality from hurries, but not enough. Putting in a factor for "if the QB is hit, then lower pass quality" would make it more level. Also, it would encourage more possession WRs...everyone goes speed cause with 8 seconds to throw the speed guy eventually gets open, but with only 3 seconds, you need to go to your 3rd option rather than keep waiting on the first one. That places a premium on the possession guy who can catch the quick slant as well as creating a more viable role for RBs and TEs in the passing game.
In summary,
Recommendation:
1) Tweak DEs to more often get close enough to the QB to change the throw by hitting the QB, but do so without increasing sacks (so we don't get the 100 sack monsters again).
2) Put in an explicit factor for the pass quality equation to reduce success when hit or "throwing off the back foot" to avoid a hit. Ideally, add extra penalty for a blindside hit (to make LT/RDE matter more as pass protectors/rushers) to increase likelihood of a "duck" that gets nowhere near the WR and can be picked off by any defender in the vicinity.
3) Reduce QB confidence when they get hit. Maybe even add a "Rattle the QB" VA where a blitzer that hits the QB frequently causes an extra morale reduction or even causes them to start making their throws too early cause they're rattled (this should be part of confidence, but doesn't seem like it is) thus further reducing pass accuracy.
4) Implement along with the other suggestion about QBs fumbling when sacked.
Reasons:
1) QBs have too long to throw favoring the passing game. Anybody can be Drew Brees if they are never pressured, even David Carr.
2) Good QBs should have to be able to make plays under pressure = requires more vision (to make 3rd reads) and confidence (to stand tall vs the blitz) instead of just 100 in throwing. We have no Bradys or Montanas in this game...just Mannings and Marinos.
3) DEs are kind of worthless right now. Allowing them to alter the game through hitting the QB when they are a second late to make the sack would make pass rushing an important element of the sim again.
4) Adds tactical benefit to blitzing (and the "useless" LB pass rushing VAs) where the defense can blitz to try to force early throws or wobblers as opposed to currently where an unsuccessful blitz is usually a penalty for the D since it doesn't affect the throw much and leaves one less man in coverage.
I could go into even more than this, but will leave it there for starters.
From another thread, reads better than mine
Originally posted by ijg
I don't want this to be another "why can't DEs have 80 sacks" vs. "why can't DEs ever get a sack" thread. What I think I've come up with is the middle ground in the passing game.
QBs have 5, 6, 7, 8 seconds to pass since the changes to DE this season. That is just as unrealistic as 80 sacks and that's why the passing game is very had to stop this season. The biggest reason a great college QB becomes an NFL bust is because they can't perform when they're getting hit all the time.
What needs to happen is to have more pressure on the QB without it being a sack fest. The most realistic way to do that is to add more hits & knock downs on the QB as they throw or just after the throw. That is how real football works anyway.
Someone more ambitious than be please do some research, but I would guess most NFL QBs are sacked, hurried, or hit on 1/3 of their throws, maybe more, with the hits being the biggest category. Also, I would guess close to 1/2 of INTs are a QB rushing a throw to avoid a hit or having their throwing motion affected by a hit.
By putting in hits on the QB, you add lots of new elements to the sim...the nerfed DEs can play a role again, blitzing becomes more realistic because often the goal is to hit the QB to bring down his "morale" or to force a bad throw more than it is to actually get the sack. I know Bort has some effect on pass quality from hurries, but not enough. Putting in a factor for "if the QB is hit, then lower pass quality" would make it more level. Also, it would encourage more possession WRs...everyone goes speed cause with 8 seconds to throw the speed guy eventually gets open, but with only 3 seconds, you need to go to your 3rd option rather than keep waiting on the first one. That places a premium on the possession guy who can catch the quick slant as well as creating a more viable role for RBs and TEs in the passing game.
In summary,
Recommendation:
1) Tweak DEs to more often get close enough to the QB to change the throw by hitting the QB, but do so without increasing sacks (so we don't get the 100 sack monsters again).
2) Put in an explicit factor for the pass quality equation to reduce success when hit or "throwing off the back foot" to avoid a hit. Ideally, add extra penalty for a blindside hit (to make LT/RDE matter more as pass protectors/rushers) to increase likelihood of a "duck" that gets nowhere near the WR and can be picked off by any defender in the vicinity.
3) Reduce QB confidence when they get hit. Maybe even add a "Rattle the QB" VA where a blitzer that hits the QB frequently causes an extra morale reduction or even causes them to start making their throws too early cause they're rattled (this should be part of confidence, but doesn't seem like it is) thus further reducing pass accuracy.
4) Implement along with the other suggestion about QBs fumbling when sacked.
Reasons:
1) QBs have too long to throw favoring the passing game. Anybody can be Drew Brees if they are never pressured, even David Carr.
2) Good QBs should have to be able to make plays under pressure = requires more vision (to make 3rd reads) and confidence (to stand tall vs the blitz) instead of just 100 in throwing. We have no Bradys or Montanas in this game...just Mannings and Marinos.
3) DEs are kind of worthless right now. Allowing them to alter the game through hitting the QB when they are a second late to make the sack would make pass rushing an important element of the sim again.
4) Adds tactical benefit to blitzing (and the "useless" LB pass rushing VAs) where the defense can blitz to try to force early throws or wobblers as opposed to currently where an unsuccessful blitz is usually a penalty for the D since it doesn't affect the throw much and leaves one less man in coverage.
I could go into even more than this, but will leave it there for starters.
Last edited Jan 27, 2009 13:55:44
so i didnt suggest it. good idea i like it.
