THIS TOPIC SHOULD BE UP FOR A VOTE AT THIS POINT. IT SHOULD ALSO NOT BE CLOSED FOR DISCUSSION.
---added comment 11/19/11.
From a "player only agent" perspective, the off season is long and rather dull. Inactivity drops amongst these agents and quite frankly there is no reason to stick around during the off season after you sign your contract.
Simply: If you don't own a team, you have nothing to do in the off season. This is especially true with auto training and the eventual auto equipment feature.
Something needs to be done about agent activity and interaction during the off season. This idea targets that time frame to provide every agent with off season tasks to complete during this period.
The time is now to introduce a team oriented training camp and individual training drills for each team and player alike.
Now, then back to the idea of the post...a training camp for players to take part in at the expense of the owner during the off season.
Q. How much would it cost?
A. Cost would be tiered based on the league the team is currently playing in at the start of the upcoming season.
World League - $2.5 million
National Pro - $2.0 million
Regional Pro - $1 million
National Semi Pro - $750,000
National Minor - $500,000
Regional Minor - $400,000
Local Minor - $300,000
University - $250,000
Prep - $200,000
Sophomore - $150,000
Rookie - $100,000
Pee Wee - $100,000
NOTE: Casual team costs would be correlated with their league counterpart in regular leagues.
Q. What is the benefit to owners?
A. It would provide Veteran XP gains for players (100 per camp maximum for participating player) and would provide the following:
# OF CAMP DAYS............................Veteran XP GAIN....................CHEMISTRY.....................MORALE GAIN..............FAN SUPPORT GAIN
1............................................................................50.............+1 OFF +1 DEF +1 OVERALL..............+1...........................L=+3 M=+2 H=+1
2............................................................................50.............+1 OFF +1 DEF +1 OVERALL..............+1...........................L=+3 M=+2 H=+1
3............................................................................50.............+1 OFF +1 DEF +1 OVERALL..............+1...........................L=+3 M=+2 H=+1
4............................................................................50..............+1 OFF +1 DEF +1 OVERALL..............+1............................L=+3 M=+2 H=+1
5.............................................................................50..............+1 OFF +1 DEF +1 OVERALL..............+1.............................L=+3 M=+2 H=+1
6.............................................................................50..............+1 OFF +1 DEF +1 OVERALL..............+1............................L=+3 M=+2 H=+1
7.............................................................................25..............+1 OFF +1 DEF +1 OVERALL..............+1............................L=+3 M=+2 H=+1
TOTAL:...................................................................100.............+7 OFF +7 DEF +7 OVERALL..............+7............................L=+21 M=+14 H=+7
NOTE: L = Low Income M = Medium Income H = High Income
Q. My player is below level 25. Will I gain Veteran XP?
A. No. The veteran XP gains will not be unlocked until your player reaches level 25. Once your player reaches level 25, then your player will start to gain Veteran XP at that point. The veteran XP gains are an unlockable feature for your player.
Q. What is the benefit to players and their agents?
A. Aside from the obvious Veteran XP gains, it will provide the users with simulated individual training drill statistics (I.E. 40 yd dash, bench press, etc) and will also improve morale.
Q. What if I'm not on a team?
A. Well, you better get on one then because just like in the NFL, if you aren't on a team you can't be in training camp! But, the good news is that this suggestion will also be adding individual drills for the training camp and part two of the idea is below.
Q. What would it consist of?
A. The owner of the team would be able to setup two specific drills per position, per day of the training camp. Once those specific drills are established, they remain for the duration of the training camp. (I.E. the offensive lineman are going to do sled drills (blocking, strength) and the punters are doing deep punting drills (punting, strength) and so forth and so on for each position.) Then it would provide statistical data to the owner that they could turn into a competition or post in a forum or whatever to compare data and make the somewhat long off season enjoyable, just a little, for the players/agents.
Q. Is there any added benefit to this?
A. Yes. For owners. They would then be able to have statistical data to help determine if that level 32 LOT should be the starter or if that level 31 LOT performed a bit better and should get the start. They would also receive a chemistry and fan support bonus for having the training camp.
Q. Are tickets or concessions sold?
A. Tickets would not be sold. Just like with all other football leagues, no one charges for the ability to watch a training camp. However, concessions could be sold for 1/5th of the expected price (not the price set by the owner) to help recoup some of the overall costs of the training camp. Attendance would fluctuate and games would NEVER have a full capacity stadium. Average attendance would be somewhere in the thousands, not higher.
Q, Could this be expanded to include tryouts for a team?
A. I think so. What could be done is add in a function to a contract that would hinge an offer to 'passing a physical.' Then an owner would be able to establish a minimum amount to 'pass' a drill. As an example, he could offer contracts to a WR that is hinged on 'passing a physical.' He then sets the test to be a 40 yard dash. Then he sets the requirement to 4.5 seconds. If the player passes the test he is awarded the contract. If not, then he would receive an automated message stating that he did not 'pass his physical' and the contract is revoked.
Q. Is it possible to incorporate some form of position battles into the training camp?
A. Yes. I've had a little bit of time to think about some of the logistics of the idea of a training camp battle. How I would recommend doing it is to add in 2-3 slots into the training camp for a position battle. These are separate from the rest of the training camp and an owner would be able to specify 2-3 positions and create a 'mini depth chart' for the position battles. It would not actually occur during the training camp however it would work like a RB1, RB2 depth chart during the preseason scrimmages. The owner would be able to adjust these custom slots and it would produce a small report that would compare the statistics and the overall performance of the two individuals in the game. It could also provide a potential grade to help with positional battles.
=====================================================================
PART TWO: Expanding the idea
The second part of the equation is to answer the question, "what about those players not on a team?"
Well, if you aren't on a team you cannot participate in training camp. Plain and simple. Training camps are designated as "team building" and "team work" type events. If you aren't on a team you can't really train on team work, can you?
However, during the off season I would love to see the ability for each player to be able to pick an individual drill to run at the end of the day or stagger the simulation of the events throughout the day. These would include the following:
1. 40 yd dash
2. Bench press
3. QB Challenge
4. RB Challenge
etc etc etc
Each day of the off season, up until the first preseason game, an agent would have the ability to run up to 3 individual drills for their player each day.
The individual drills would cost bonus tokens to participate in. Bonus tokens would be tiered as follows:
1 Individual Drill = 1 bonus tokens
2 Individual Drills = 3 bonus tokens
3 Individual Drills = 7 bonus tokens
The player would receive an alert that would provide the statistical information received from the completion of the drill.
=================================================================
Dear XXX,
Joe CB participated in the 40 yd dash. Here are the results:
40 yd dash: 4.6 seconds
Thank you for participating in today's drill. If you participated in other drills, then you will receive those results separately.
Thanks
GLB
=================================================================
As a reward for participating in individual drills, the statistics would be displayed on the bottom of the players profile page that could be used by owners/recruiters to help compare players when offering contracts.
Also, the player would receive a small boost of Veteran XP to their player each time they participate in the individual drills. XP would be tiered as follows:
1 Individual Drill = 5 Veteran XP
2 Individual Drills = 10 Veteran XP
3 Individual Drills = 10 Veteran XP
Maximum daily Veteran XP = 25
Maximum offseason Veteran XP = 175
These are additional Veteran XP gains for their player.
=========================================================
Alright, hate on the revision all you want, but here it is.
-BCF-
QUESTIONS
--------------------------------------
Originally posted by Chysil
1) What day would it start? Players that don't resign and thus are released on day 41 are effected by the roster freeze and cannot sign until day 42? Would it start day 42? Would it be handled at rollover, so by rollover from day 42-43 you need to be on a team or you miss out?
Training camp would start at the end of rollover from day 42 to 43. This would put the end of training camp somewhere in the neighborhood of day -7 to be concluded. The training camp could either be handled at rollover or could be staggered throughout the day similar to games. However, in order to make the timing deadline it would need to run every day and not every other day.
As mentioned in the OP, if you are not on a team you cannot participate in training camp. However, if a player signs during the middle of a training camp, just like a player signing in the middle of the season to a team, that player would be eligible to participate in the next days activities. This would avoid any possible exploitation of the XP gains just like joining a team in the middle of the season did (double game XP).
Furthermore, if you are not on a team during training camp, you can still participate in the individual drills listed in part 2 of the OP.
Originally posted by Chysil
2) Can you do individual drills as well as well as team drills? Or are individual drills intended for people not on a team.
This is one of the benefits of joining a team early. If you are on a team, then you get to participate in the training camp and individual drills during the off season. If you are not on a team, you can only participate in the individual drills. This is an incentive to join teams early at the start of the off season to reap the full benefits of the off season.
Originally posted by Chysil
3) Is there a way to turn off alerts so people with 20+ players don't get 20+ daily alerts about training camp?
A simple check box when picking the individual drills for each player with something that states:
[ ] I would like to receive alerts about this players performance on daily off season drills.
This would suffice. If you want them, check the box. If you don't, don't check the box. Either way the drill results will be placed at the bottom of your players page. Just like a players build, you can choose to show how your player performed in these drills or not.
Originally posted by Chysil
4) Would players in plateau / decline still gain XP?
No. A player in plateau/decline would not gain any Veteran XP or morale from participating in any of the drills or training camps. However, since there are no gains for the player, they just get information from participating there would be no cost to those players in plateau or decline.
Originally posted by Chysil
5) With potentially (11 x 500) or 5 and a half levels out there worth of XP, wouldn't this significantly hurt players that didn't get the chance to do it (kind of like old training system to new training system). Is there any way to try and get the older players to retroactively do this, or would it just be "too bad for you" type thing?
Well, I wouldn't call it a "too bad for you" type deal as far as the individual drills are concerned. Younger players are going to have to make some decisions on what to do. They won't be able to participate in every drill every year for awhile more than likely. And, if they do, they'll be hurting AEQ and upgraded equipment in the long run. Its very decision oriented on the younger players whereas the older players, flat out, will be able to participate in max drills until plateau. There are both advantages to older players and disadvantages but the exact same thing can be said for younger players as well. (I.E. sacrifice possible creation of AEQ for individual drills, etc.).
As far as older players are concerned with the training camp itself, I would liken it to the old training to new training method. That is really the best way to look at it. I really don't see anyway to retroactively do it. You can't pull that cash from team finances and if you really do anything with it, basically you would just be giving free levels of XP to the older players. Perhaps, a possible solution would be to give players over "X" days old a free boost or something similar. But, aside from that, I don't see a way to make that a possibility.
EDIT: With the revisions made to the XP amounts garnered, this is practically null and void. The level gains are minimal at best and the gains that are had would very easily be attributed to decision making on younger players since they will have to determine if they want to build that custom AEQ or run individual drills, etc like mentioned above.
Originally posted by Chysil
6) Are the costs listed above cost per day, or cost per offseason?
The costs listed above are the total cost per off season. So, a National Pro League Team would pay $2.5 million and that would cover the cost of the entire training camp for the team.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
UPDATE: 11/30/11
Originally posted by Chysil
High ups think that the XP gains are a little too much. The like the idea, but they said it's pretty much not going to happen WITH the XP changes.
So we need to nix the xp gain, and try to think of another (if any) thing to reward players for doing this.
In order to combat this idea that the XP gains would be a little much, let's simply nix XP and adjust so that rather than being a gain of regular game experience it is adjusted to Vet XP. There are currently no additional ways to gain Vet XP (unlike training, boosting, etc for regular XP) this would not provide major gains of Vet XP, but it would make sense since the player is currently training to become better and it would make sense that they gain veteran experience by participating. It could increase and would become an unlockable bonus for those dots that are currently not at level 25. In other words, just like gaining veteran points doesn't start until level 25. Veteran XP gains from training camp don't start until level 25.
---added comment 11/19/11.
From a "player only agent" perspective, the off season is long and rather dull. Inactivity drops amongst these agents and quite frankly there is no reason to stick around during the off season after you sign your contract.
Simply: If you don't own a team, you have nothing to do in the off season. This is especially true with auto training and the eventual auto equipment feature.
Something needs to be done about agent activity and interaction during the off season. This idea targets that time frame to provide every agent with off season tasks to complete during this period.
The time is now to introduce a team oriented training camp and individual training drills for each team and player alike.
Now, then back to the idea of the post...a training camp for players to take part in at the expense of the owner during the off season.
Q. How much would it cost?
A. Cost would be tiered based on the league the team is currently playing in at the start of the upcoming season.
World League - $2.5 million
National Pro - $2.0 million
Regional Pro - $1 million
National Semi Pro - $750,000
National Minor - $500,000
Regional Minor - $400,000
Local Minor - $300,000
University - $250,000
Prep - $200,000
Sophomore - $150,000
Rookie - $100,000
Pee Wee - $100,000
NOTE: Casual team costs would be correlated with their league counterpart in regular leagues.
Q. What is the benefit to owners?
A. It would provide Veteran XP gains for players (100 per camp maximum for participating player) and would provide the following:
# OF CAMP DAYS............................Veteran XP GAIN....................CHEMISTRY.....................MORALE GAIN..............FAN SUPPORT GAIN
1............................................................................50.............+1 OFF +1 DEF +1 OVERALL..............+1...........................L=+3 M=+2 H=+1
2............................................................................50.............+1 OFF +1 DEF +1 OVERALL..............+1...........................L=+3 M=+2 H=+1
3............................................................................50.............+1 OFF +1 DEF +1 OVERALL..............+1...........................L=+3 M=+2 H=+1
4............................................................................50..............+1 OFF +1 DEF +1 OVERALL..............+1............................L=+3 M=+2 H=+1
5.............................................................................50..............+1 OFF +1 DEF +1 OVERALL..............+1.............................L=+3 M=+2 H=+1
6.............................................................................50..............+1 OFF +1 DEF +1 OVERALL..............+1............................L=+3 M=+2 H=+1
7.............................................................................25..............+1 OFF +1 DEF +1 OVERALL..............+1............................L=+3 M=+2 H=+1
TOTAL:...................................................................100.............+7 OFF +7 DEF +7 OVERALL..............+7............................L=+21 M=+14 H=+7
NOTE: L = Low Income M = Medium Income H = High Income
Q. My player is below level 25. Will I gain Veteran XP?
A. No. The veteran XP gains will not be unlocked until your player reaches level 25. Once your player reaches level 25, then your player will start to gain Veteran XP at that point. The veteran XP gains are an unlockable feature for your player.
Q. What is the benefit to players and their agents?
A. Aside from the obvious Veteran XP gains, it will provide the users with simulated individual training drill statistics (I.E. 40 yd dash, bench press, etc) and will also improve morale.
Q. What if I'm not on a team?
A. Well, you better get on one then because just like in the NFL, if you aren't on a team you can't be in training camp! But, the good news is that this suggestion will also be adding individual drills for the training camp and part two of the idea is below.
Q. What would it consist of?
A. The owner of the team would be able to setup two specific drills per position, per day of the training camp. Once those specific drills are established, they remain for the duration of the training camp. (I.E. the offensive lineman are going to do sled drills (blocking, strength) and the punters are doing deep punting drills (punting, strength) and so forth and so on for each position.) Then it would provide statistical data to the owner that they could turn into a competition or post in a forum or whatever to compare data and make the somewhat long off season enjoyable, just a little, for the players/agents.
Q. Is there any added benefit to this?
A. Yes. For owners. They would then be able to have statistical data to help determine if that level 32 LOT should be the starter or if that level 31 LOT performed a bit better and should get the start. They would also receive a chemistry and fan support bonus for having the training camp.
Q. Are tickets or concessions sold?
A. Tickets would not be sold. Just like with all other football leagues, no one charges for the ability to watch a training camp. However, concessions could be sold for 1/5th of the expected price (not the price set by the owner) to help recoup some of the overall costs of the training camp. Attendance would fluctuate and games would NEVER have a full capacity stadium. Average attendance would be somewhere in the thousands, not higher.
Q, Could this be expanded to include tryouts for a team?
A. I think so. What could be done is add in a function to a contract that would hinge an offer to 'passing a physical.' Then an owner would be able to establish a minimum amount to 'pass' a drill. As an example, he could offer contracts to a WR that is hinged on 'passing a physical.' He then sets the test to be a 40 yard dash. Then he sets the requirement to 4.5 seconds. If the player passes the test he is awarded the contract. If not, then he would receive an automated message stating that he did not 'pass his physical' and the contract is revoked.
Q. Is it possible to incorporate some form of position battles into the training camp?
A. Yes. I've had a little bit of time to think about some of the logistics of the idea of a training camp battle. How I would recommend doing it is to add in 2-3 slots into the training camp for a position battle. These are separate from the rest of the training camp and an owner would be able to specify 2-3 positions and create a 'mini depth chart' for the position battles. It would not actually occur during the training camp however it would work like a RB1, RB2 depth chart during the preseason scrimmages. The owner would be able to adjust these custom slots and it would produce a small report that would compare the statistics and the overall performance of the two individuals in the game. It could also provide a potential grade to help with positional battles.
=====================================================================
PART TWO: Expanding the idea
The second part of the equation is to answer the question, "what about those players not on a team?"
Well, if you aren't on a team you cannot participate in training camp. Plain and simple. Training camps are designated as "team building" and "team work" type events. If you aren't on a team you can't really train on team work, can you?
However, during the off season I would love to see the ability for each player to be able to pick an individual drill to run at the end of the day or stagger the simulation of the events throughout the day. These would include the following:
1. 40 yd dash
2. Bench press
3. QB Challenge
4. RB Challenge
etc etc etc
Each day of the off season, up until the first preseason game, an agent would have the ability to run up to 3 individual drills for their player each day.
The individual drills would cost bonus tokens to participate in. Bonus tokens would be tiered as follows:
1 Individual Drill = 1 bonus tokens
2 Individual Drills = 3 bonus tokens
3 Individual Drills = 7 bonus tokens
The player would receive an alert that would provide the statistical information received from the completion of the drill.
=================================================================
Dear XXX,
Joe CB participated in the 40 yd dash. Here are the results:
40 yd dash: 4.6 seconds
Thank you for participating in today's drill. If you participated in other drills, then you will receive those results separately.
Thanks
GLB
=================================================================
As a reward for participating in individual drills, the statistics would be displayed on the bottom of the players profile page that could be used by owners/recruiters to help compare players when offering contracts.
Also, the player would receive a small boost of Veteran XP to their player each time they participate in the individual drills. XP would be tiered as follows:
1 Individual Drill = 5 Veteran XP
2 Individual Drills = 10 Veteran XP
3 Individual Drills = 10 Veteran XP
Maximum daily Veteran XP = 25
Maximum offseason Veteran XP = 175
These are additional Veteran XP gains for their player.
=========================================================
Alright, hate on the revision all you want, but here it is.
-BCF-
QUESTIONS
--------------------------------------
Originally posted by Chysil
1) What day would it start? Players that don't resign and thus are released on day 41 are effected by the roster freeze and cannot sign until day 42? Would it start day 42? Would it be handled at rollover, so by rollover from day 42-43 you need to be on a team or you miss out?
Training camp would start at the end of rollover from day 42 to 43. This would put the end of training camp somewhere in the neighborhood of day -7 to be concluded. The training camp could either be handled at rollover or could be staggered throughout the day similar to games. However, in order to make the timing deadline it would need to run every day and not every other day.
As mentioned in the OP, if you are not on a team you cannot participate in training camp. However, if a player signs during the middle of a training camp, just like a player signing in the middle of the season to a team, that player would be eligible to participate in the next days activities. This would avoid any possible exploitation of the XP gains just like joining a team in the middle of the season did (double game XP).
Furthermore, if you are not on a team during training camp, you can still participate in the individual drills listed in part 2 of the OP.
Originally posted by Chysil
2) Can you do individual drills as well as well as team drills? Or are individual drills intended for people not on a team.
This is one of the benefits of joining a team early. If you are on a team, then you get to participate in the training camp and individual drills during the off season. If you are not on a team, you can only participate in the individual drills. This is an incentive to join teams early at the start of the off season to reap the full benefits of the off season.
Originally posted by Chysil
3) Is there a way to turn off alerts so people with 20+ players don't get 20+ daily alerts about training camp?
A simple check box when picking the individual drills for each player with something that states:
[ ] I would like to receive alerts about this players performance on daily off season drills.
This would suffice. If you want them, check the box. If you don't, don't check the box. Either way the drill results will be placed at the bottom of your players page. Just like a players build, you can choose to show how your player performed in these drills or not.
Originally posted by Chysil
4) Would players in plateau / decline still gain XP?
No. A player in plateau/decline would not gain any Veteran XP or morale from participating in any of the drills or training camps. However, since there are no gains for the player, they just get information from participating there would be no cost to those players in plateau or decline.
Originally posted by Chysil
5) With potentially (11 x 500) or 5 and a half levels out there worth of XP, wouldn't this significantly hurt players that didn't get the chance to do it (kind of like old training system to new training system). Is there any way to try and get the older players to retroactively do this, or would it just be "too bad for you" type thing?
Well, I wouldn't call it a "too bad for you" type deal as far as the individual drills are concerned. Younger players are going to have to make some decisions on what to do. They won't be able to participate in every drill every year for awhile more than likely. And, if they do, they'll be hurting AEQ and upgraded equipment in the long run. Its very decision oriented on the younger players whereas the older players, flat out, will be able to participate in max drills until plateau. There are both advantages to older players and disadvantages but the exact same thing can be said for younger players as well. (I.E. sacrifice possible creation of AEQ for individual drills, etc.).
As far as older players are concerned with the training camp itself, I would liken it to the old training to new training method. That is really the best way to look at it. I really don't see anyway to retroactively do it. You can't pull that cash from team finances and if you really do anything with it, basically you would just be giving free levels of XP to the older players. Perhaps, a possible solution would be to give players over "X" days old a free boost or something similar. But, aside from that, I don't see a way to make that a possibility.
EDIT: With the revisions made to the XP amounts garnered, this is practically null and void. The level gains are minimal at best and the gains that are had would very easily be attributed to decision making on younger players since they will have to determine if they want to build that custom AEQ or run individual drills, etc like mentioned above.
Originally posted by Chysil
6) Are the costs listed above cost per day, or cost per offseason?
The costs listed above are the total cost per off season. So, a National Pro League Team would pay $2.5 million and that would cover the cost of the entire training camp for the team.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
UPDATE: 11/30/11
Originally posted by Chysil
High ups think that the XP gains are a little too much. The like the idea, but they said it's pretty much not going to happen WITH the XP changes.
So we need to nix the xp gain, and try to think of another (if any) thing to reward players for doing this.
In order to combat this idea that the XP gains would be a little much, let's simply nix XP and adjust so that rather than being a gain of regular game experience it is adjusted to Vet XP. There are currently no additional ways to gain Vet XP (unlike training, boosting, etc for regular XP) this would not provide major gains of Vet XP, but it would make sense since the player is currently training to become better and it would make sense that they gain veteran experience by participating. It could increase and would become an unlockable bonus for those dots that are currently not at level 25. In other words, just like gaining veteran points doesn't start until level 25. Veteran XP gains from training camp don't start until level 25.
Edited by BigCowboysFan on Nov 30, 2011 16:28:22
Edited by BigCowboysFan on Nov 30, 2011 16:26:52
Edited by BigCowboysFan on Nov 19, 2011 10:52:44
Edited by BigCowboysFan on Nov 19, 2011 10:52:13
Edited by BigCowboysFan on Jun 15, 2011 13:49:37
