Warrior General Games

Originally posted by reddogrw

before the crash, late vs early boosting wasn't just about training but also about 72 vs 68 VA points

now that VA points has been taken out of the equation there isn't anything on the early boosting side

I think we are conflating things when you call boosting from 22-25 = early boosting. These don't really mean the same thing overall..

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
I think we are conflating things when you call boosting from 22-25 = early boosting. These don't really mean the same thing overall..

people boosted from 1 to 4 before rollover to be able to boost to 25 sooner and get more VA points

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
I think we are conflating things when you call boosting from 22-25 = early boosting. These don't really mean the same thing overall..

I disagree, Wise. Reddog's onto something. We didn't just boost according to simple 'early/late' at the start of a dot's life but, even through it's growth we kept track of things and boosted to gain a nickle here and a dime there. When I 1st started the mantra was simple and only a few 'guides' existed. The 1st mantra I ever learned was to never boost unless you could cap (that's the dumbed down version of what was said). Later it was about VA points and when XP changed. And whether you did a slow build or a normal one, all Guides were based off of that math. And it was WELL proven that boosting early and often gave you a much lesser build at the end.
Almost all of that changed with the new process. VA points are now seasonal based... not level based. XP is seasonal as well. It's made things simpler... but also made things where dots are gonna look more and more alike with little diversity among the elite. Sorry to bust the bubble but this IS a math based game... and math is finite. There is a way to totally maximize a build so that every single erg and point is perfect, down to the %. The argument of slow build vs normal vs early and often is simply a reflection of that knowledge... and we're admitting the 'slow builders' were right. The one thing that allows for variety is what we want for players... what job we want them to do... what SA's... VA's... skill sets... Height... Weight... training breakthroughs. It's all the rest of what building is about that keeps us from having cookie cutter builds. But make no mistake, you wanna dance at the top then your builds have gotta be done RIGHT. For now, unless Borty makes more changes, that's slow boosting/building.

Originally posted by reddogrw
people boosted from 1 to 4 before rollover to be able to boost to 25 sooner and get more VA points

Absolutely true.

You boosted 1 to 4 in the off season, Day 48. Then didn't boost before the playoffs started, then boosted from 22 to 25 the next season to get VXP started.

A million years ago, the league structure was changed from level based leagues to an age based system because cheese ballers would avoid boosting for 3 entire seasons, to take advantage of training.

I hated it then, and I hate it now.

Here's what I don't get... when I was getting ready to build dots for S100, all of my VPB runs made it look like boosting early-and-often made better Lv 79 dots in the end. Multiple runs, different builds, different positions... always the same result. I know several other people who got similar results with the VPB as well, so I wasn't alone. It made no sense to me, but I didn't want to argue with the results, so when I created my S100 dots, I boosted early and often.

Is there something wrong with the new VPB? Or was I consistently fucking something up with my boost-later VPB runs and getting garbage results that led me astray? I suspect the latter, but since I'm not the only one who got those results, I can't rule out the former.

I should mention, I kept up with the VPB updates at the time, so that wasn't the issue.

If I had to guess, Novus, it's all about the training differences (concerning the VPB). I'm not sure it takes into account the variances in training gains. The higher a skill gets, the less training gains you get when you train it. Boosting causes ALG gains... ALG gains raise skills... higher skills get less training gains. I'm not sure the VPB is on top of that correctly. I had the same issues myself when using it. It's just a guess but it's what I think happened.

Guess we need to light the Batman signal for slughead42.

Batslug signal? Slugman?

Personally, I suspect there's 2 culprits

#1 it's easy AF to build 1 good dot by clicking the "next day" button and spending 5 minutes to go from concept to L79. Doing it over 6 months takes a lot more discipline, and the effort is compounded with the more dots you build.

If you always just train whatever and boost on Day 44 or whatever, it's way harder to screw up.

#2 the only agents that are building both kinds of dots for a reasonable comparison are very good at doing things the old way, and are on record multiple times stating the old way produces the best dots, so there's probably a self fulfilling prophecy.

#2a: the 2% difference is purely mathematical based on PV. So the type of build, like 1 dominant attribute like Speed on a WR or Strength on a Lineman will swing the results. When attributes "cost" 15+ SPs , getting 30 PV is two attributes being 1 point higher each.

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
If I had to guess, Novus, it's all about the training differences (concerning the VPB). I'm not sure it takes into account the variances in training gains. The higher a skill gets, the less training gains you get when you train it. Boosting causes ALG gains... ALG gains raise skills... higher skills get less training gains. I'm not sure the VPB is on top of that correctly. I had the same issues myself when using it. It's just a guess but it's what I think happened.

If this is what's happening, it's always happened, so I think we can rule it out. Bort didn't change anything about training, so nothing in the VPB about training was changed. There's a formula in the VPB that figures training changes pretty much "live", just the way the actual game does.

Originally posted by Novus
Guess we need to light the Batman signal for slughead42.

Batslug signal? Slugman?

I don't think there were any fatal problems that anyone's run into, or brought up to me at least, since the last (millionth) version that's the one out there. Bort kept monkeying with the timing of getting TPs in one shot and the timing of how long you could use which available boosts and stuff like that, but I think that the VPB keeps that all within the rails. So, as I said at the time, it would take someone way more adept than me at actual programming to "know" from the code whether it's still working like it's supposed to.

That being said, I've never done some work in the VPB and then gone to replicate it on a dot (like, just today with the starting stuff on a couple of new dots) and had it not produce the same result, so my confidence remains high, I guess.

Nothing wrong with the vpb, Worked as intended for me.
The only issue there is with it and it isn't the vpb (I think) is it calculates the player value a bit off than it actually is on the dot.
It will vary a little less than what it actually really is on the dot

Originally posted by Novus
Here's what I don't get... when I was getting ready to build dots for S100, all of my VPB runs made it look like boosting early-and-often made better Lv 79 dots in the end. Multiple runs, different builds, different positions... always the same result. I know several other people who got similar results with the VPB as well, so I wasn't alone. It made no sense to me, but I didn't want to argue with the results, so when I created my S100 dots, I boosted early and often.

Is there something wrong with the new VPB? Or was I consistently fucking something up with my boost-later VPB runs and getting garbage results that led me astray? I suspect the latter, but since I'm not the only one who got those results, I can't rule out the former.

I should mention, I kept up with the VPB updates at the time, so that wasn't the issue.

all I know is I used to early boost from 1-4 to max VA's

I waited this time because there is no advantage with VA's to boost early

my new HOOD team is about 30 SP better per player than before the crash

Originally posted by reddogrw
all I know is I usedto early boost from 1-4 to max VA's

I waited this time because there is no advantage with VA's to boost early

my new HOOD team is about 30 SP better per player than before the crash

All I know is hood is behind Comets skill point value

KC highest skill point team currently in GLB.

Fix your builds slow builders

Originally posted by PLAYMAKERS
Fix your builds slow builders

Don't think they need to, both gold and silver trophies were won by slow built teams.