Warrior General Games

Is carrying needed for Juke to fire on a WR? Or would vision be enough. If I need carrying whats a good number to invest in?

Carrying on a WR helps more with catching transition and ball security than Juke. Most WR's have kiwis have catching as they have highish catching and double stacked %CB AEq.

I think agility is the primary skill needed for Juke to succeed. It helps to have vision up a bit (~55+).

Remember, for a faking WR to successfully catch a ball, separation is needed. Carrying will help the transition from that catch, to securing the ball, faking and separating to happen quicker. Though agility helps with the need not to slow down and or make that Juke cut sharper and faster.

Sonic is onto something but I would add that, when talking 'Juke' it's much about WHEN it fires as to what skill it's tied to. Sonic's input is pretty spot on when talking about BEFORE the reception. AFTER you've received the pass and are then a RUNNER, then it would fire the same as it would for a RB which IS tied to Carrying skill. For a WR, unless you're a speed 180 WR that nobody can catch, Carrying is pretty important to the build (both for Juke and for making/keeping the catch).

agreed ... 60+ will get you started -- add in some strength and you'll be set

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
Sonic is onto something but I would add that, when talking 'Juke' it's much about WHEN it fires as to what skill it's tied to. Sonic's input is pretty spot on when talking about BEFORE the reception. AFTER you've received the pass and are then a RUNNER, then it would fire the same as it would for a RB which IS tied to Carrying skill. For a WR, unless you're a speed 180 WR that nobody can catch, Carrying is pretty important to the build (both for Juke and for making/keeping the catch).

Juke fires when running routes and when running with the ball. Agility is the main skill needed for juke to work. Carrying is more to do with ball security on a WR, not so much jukes. Carrying is more important with power HB's.

Carrying is not required to make juke fire.

Agility, Vision, and Quick Cut all help Juke fire.

I recommend 60+ carrying and vision.

Originally posted by Dave Mr Majors
Carrying is not required to make juke fire.

Agility, Vision, and Quick Cut all help Juke fire.

I recommend 60+ carrying and vision.

+1

Juke and Catch Fake - both must haves for WR

Originally posted by Sonic
Juke fires when running routes and when running with the ball. Agility is the main skill needed for juke to work. Carrying is more to do with ball security on a WR, not so much jukes. Carrying is more important with power HB's.

I seem to remember it posted somewhere that Carrying is the skill that is tied to making Juke fire for HB's. My point was that, Juke has TWO different appearances. One is when a receiver is running a route and uses Juke to cause the defender to become faked, allowing him to get open for the catch. I agreed with you on that and pointed out you were "onto something" when you said as much. However, I also pondered the possibility of Juke firing AFTER the catch is made, meaning it would possibly then be treated like it is for HB's (or any other ball carrier) and if it would then be tied to Carrying is it had been said as much. It's as much a question as a statement. I really don't know for sure. I do remember threads long before this one asking which skill is important to make Juke for HB's and I seem to remember the answer being 'carrying'. If so, the possibly, a WR could have Juke fire twice in one play... and that such firing would be based off of two different skills. #1, running the route Juke fires to get the WR open for the catch... #2, Juke fires AFTER the catch to avoid a tackle. What I'm not sure of is if both Jukes are the same or not. I don't think anyone's asked that before or, if they did, I've never seen it asked.

Juke is Juke...This is a programmed game, and therefore the law of identity applies. Whether or not a dot is carrying the ball, Juke is Juke. Have you ever seen a dot Spin when they are not carrying the ball? From these observations, we can determine that fake attempts do not rely on carrying, but break tackle attempts do.

Originally posted by Dave Mr Majors
Juke is Juke...This is a programmed game, and therefore the law of identity applies. Whether or not a dot is carrying the ball, Juke is Juke. Have you ever seen a dot Spin when they are not carrying the ball? From these observations, we can determine that fake attempts do not rely on carrying, but break tackle attempts do.

Bingo

This is why receivers use Juke and Catch Fake

It is about getting open and making the catch

Breaking tackles for a WR is less important

Originally posted by Dave Mr Majors
Juke is Juke...This is a programmed game, and therefore the law of identity applies. Whether or not a dot is carrying the ball, Juke is Juke. Have you ever seen a dot Spin when they are not carrying the ball? From these observations, we can determine that fake attempts do not rely on carrying, but break tackle attempts do.

I think this is why I was a bit confused; (Knew I remembered this question from before)

http://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=5217301

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
I think this is why I was a bit confused; (Knew I remembered this question from before)

http://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=5217301

And it's not even a quote from the Bort Stalking thread! Definitely confused.

Originally posted by Sonic
And it's not even a quote from the Bort Stalking thread! Definitely confused.

Nah. Sometimes I think people put WAY too much stock in the stocker thread. That thing's older that mummy farts.

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
Nah. Sometimes I think people put WAY too much stock in the stocker thread. That thing's older that mummy farts.

The game mechanics though hasn't changed much since much of that was stocked up in that thread.

I've been wondering with my WR whether taking Catch Fake to 9 and having carrying at 59 is better than having carrying at 57, Catch Fake at 7 and both Route Run and Sticky Hands to 4 (both penalised/red SA's) instead of zero investment in the two. Especially if catching will be 95.