Warrior General Games

Originally posted by Fumanchuchu
Speed>Agility/Carrying>Vision/Strength

Will work well. But always keep in mind what you're wanting to FINISH with at the end. Some guys (most, actually) go for the elusive style of returner... so Fu's build guide works right into that. But some want a more "physical" style of returner... for that I would go with Speed>Carrying/Strength>Agility>Vision. Again... always keep that picture of what SA's you're going for according to what style of returner you want to build. Those decisions will determine how you approach each skill and what you want each skill to finish at.

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
Will work well. But always keep in mind what you're wanting to FINISH with at the end. Some guys (most, actually) go for the elusive style of returner... so Fu's build guide works right into that. But some want a more "physical" style of returner... for that I would go with Speed>Carrying/Strength>Agility>Vision. Again... always keep that picture of what SA's you're going for according to what style of returner you want to build. Those decisions will determine how you approach each skill and what you want each skill to finish at.
I'm going for the elusive, so carrying before vision?
Is there variation allowed for that?

Originally posted by ClutchDreams

I'm going for the elusive, so carrying before vision?
Is there variation allowed for that?

No matter what style you build you want more carrying than vision. No reason to take vision past 50 on any returner IMO. High vision won't help them run any better, they'll still make silly decisions and tend to just follow the back wedge, no matter how open the other side of the field is.

But guaranteed you'll be facing off against dots that can force fumbles and are built to do such, you'll want 90+ carrying to combat that by end build ideally, but since you're going elusive you'll probably cap agility before you cap carrying, so you might be able to squeeze by with 85+ carrying and 90+ agility.

http://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/player.pl?player_id=4384502
92.8 carrying
15% not fumble AEQ
79.5 strength
59 vision

And his first season at plateau saw 6 fumbles. Sure it was on a losing team that only won 5 games, so a lot of those fumbles were a result of low morale, but they still happened. If you don't get carrying up high you'll end up paying for it at higher levels. Gunner STOP's typically have 190+ combined strength and tackling with 22.5% force fumble and monster hit and fumble VA's all stacked and they typically come in at full steam with head hunter and it's just not a good combo when it comes to preventing fumbles. So... again, At it's lowest, Carrying needs to be the third attribute you cap. Forget vision, 50+ is fine, 60+ is as high as I'd ever take it.

Originally posted by MileHighShoes
No matter what style you build you want more carrying than vision. No reason to take vision past 50 on any returner IMO. High vision won't help them run any better, they'll still make silly decisions and tend to just follow the back wedge, no matter how open the other side of the field is.

But guaranteed you'll be facing off against dots that can force fumbles and are built to do such, you'll want 90+ carrying to combat that by end build ideally, but since you're going elusive you'll probably cap agility before you cap carrying, so you might be able to squeeze by with 85+ carrying and 90+ agility.

http://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/player.pl?player_id=4384502
92.8 carrying
15% not fumble AEQ
79.5 strength
59 vision

And his first season at plateau saw 6 fumbles. Sure it was on a losing team that only won 5 games, so a lot of those fumbles were a result of low morale, but they still happened. If you don't get carrying up high you'll end up paying for it at higher levels. Gunner STOP's typically have 190+ combined strength and tackling with 22.5% force fumble and monster hit and fumble VA's all stacked and they typically come in at full steam with head hunter and it's just not a good combo when it comes to preventing fumbles. So... again, At it's lowest, Carrying needs to be the third attribute you cap. Forget vision, 50+ is fine, 60+ is as high as I'd ever take it.
That makes more sense now, with teh STOP's.
So when I multi train, should i still go buy all 3 (agility carrying and vision) at once? Or should i buy agility unlock the 20/30% (or cap twice) then go to carrying?

Originally posted by ClutchDreams

That makes more sense now, with teh STOP's.
So when I multi train, should i still go buy all 3 (agility carrying and vision) at once? Or should i buy agility unlock the 20/30% (or cap twice) then go to carrying?

I usually but the Agility, carrying, and Vision but don't put SP's into vision until near the end... and, MHS is correct... as long as your vision hits 1st cap, you should be fine. Speed I run in the floating (open) slot until it hits the number I want... then I can switch it out for other skills (strength, stamina, even confidence a little). When you're finished, agility and carrying will be pretty close (or should be)... high 80's for both is good... 90's+ for both is awesome. Speed at LEAST a natural 100... shooting for 102-105 is better. Doesn't sound like much but, with speed, every little bit really helps.
As for enhancements, I go with 30% on Speed, vision, carrying, and agility... and at least 10% in stamina and strength. If you're really good and mind your numbers and training, you can reach that and still have a 3 AEQ build. The very best find ways to get a 4 AEQ build... but 3 is pretty dang good. You should be training 4 skills (multi training) as soon as your primary hits 80+ natural or better. By that time you should be able to afford to open all 3 slots (+1 open slot =4) and even enhance them. Start with speed 1st (up to 30%)... then work on agility and carrying at the same time until they're at 30%... then enhance vision last to 30%.
Hope this helps.

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
I usually but the Agility, carrying, and Vision but don't put SP's into vision until near the end... and, MHS is correct... as long as your vision hits 1st cap, you should be fine. Speed I run in the floating (open) slot until it hits the number I want... then I can switch it out for other skills (strength, stamina, even confidence a little). When you're finished, agility and carrying will be pretty close (or should be)... high 80's for both is good... 90's+ for both is awesome. Speed at LEAST a natural 100... shooting for 102-105 is better. Doesn't sound like much but, with speed, every little bit really helps.
As for enhancements, I go with 30% on Speed, vision, carrying, and agility... and at least 10% in stamina and strength. If you're really good and mind your numbers and training, you can reach that and still have a 3 AEQ build. The very best find ways to get a 4 AEQ build... but 3 is pretty dang good. You should be training 4 skills (multi training) as soon as your primary hits 80+ natural or better. By that time you should be able to afford to open all 3 slots (+1 open slot =4) and even enhance them. Start with speed 1st (up to 30%)... then work on agility and carrying at the same time until they're at 30%... then enhance vision last to 30%.
Hope this helps.
So i multi train after 2nd cap is hit, then i get all 3 others unlocked (agility carrying vision) and split BT on the percentage for Agility, and carrying. then when those two hit 2nd cap, say i can put some on vision, and replace the empty 3 slots (speed agility carrying) with strength and stamina, then what do i fill in the last with? speed?

Originally posted by ClutchDreams

So i multi train after 2nd cap is hit, then i get all 3 others unlocked (agility carrying vision) and split BT on the percentage for Agility, and carrying. then when those two hit 2nd cap, say i can put some on vision, and replace the empty 3 slots (speed agility carrying) with strength and stamina, then what do i fill in the last with? speed?


I pound intense on primary until I hit my second cap at least... AND have enough BT's to open all my multi slots... AND have enough BT's to 3 star my main skill. Until I have enough BT's, I intense train. That's a "rough estimate" of my approach... I never have bothered to write down any of this stuff... been doing it too long. But... you want, at the very least, to be able to unlock all 3 multi slots. You should already have 3 stars enhanced on your primary now. That's something you do from day 1 (I didn't say anything because day one was gone already).
Having said that, there are some out there that unlock their secondary earlier... or only unlock 2 of their slots and run with only 3 way multi training for the first season. I have no info at all as to how good (or bad... or no difference) going that route makes. So I'm only giving you what I do and know.

If you do go my way, then you'll be on 4 way with the same skills for a pretty long time before switching out any. Remember... speed is your most important skill for a returner so you'll stay on speed (training and ALL SP's spend ONLY on speed) for as long as it takes to hit your final number (100-105 natural). Boosting only when you can hit a cap with speed, or at the end of a season... whichever happens first. Save any level-up SP's until you can hit next cap. Continue that until speed hits goal. THEN you can start to worry about other stuff.

Number of BT's you'll need are 6 for first slot, 12 for second, and 18 for third... equals 32 total BT's before you switch out from intense training.
And, lastly, pay attention to the amount of "gain" you get for training on intense. I never continue training on intense if my gains is below 12%. At that level, you're kinda wasting trains. IMO.

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
I pound intense on primary until I hit my second cap at least... AND have enough BT's to open all my multi slots... AND have enough BT's to 3 star my main skill. Until I have enough BT's, I intense train. That's a "rough estimate" of my approach... I never have bothered to write down any of this stuff... been doing it too long. But... you want, at the very least, to be able to unlock all 3 multi slots. You should already have 3 stars enhanced on your primary now. That's something you do from day 1 (I didn't say anything because day one was gone already).
Having said that, there are some out there that unlock their secondary earlier... or only unlock 2 of their slots and run with only 3 way multi training for the first season. I have no info at all as to how good (or bad... or no difference) going that route makes. So I'm only giving you what I do and know.

If you do go my way, then you'll be on 4 way with the same skills for a pretty long time before switching out any. Remember... speed is your most important skill for a returner so you'll stay on speed (training and ALL SP's spend ONLY on speed) for as long as it takes to hit your final number (100-105 natural). Boosting only when you can hit a cap with speed, or at the end of a season... whichever happens first. Save any level-up SP's until you can hit next cap. Continue that until speed hits goal. THEN you can start to worry about other stuff.

Number of BT's you'll need are 6 for first slot, 12 for second, and 18 for third... equals 32 total BT's before you switch out from intense training.
And, lastly, pay attention to the amount of "gain" you get for training on intense. I never continue training on intense if my gains is below 12%. At that level, you're kinda wasting trains. IMO.
Ok, so i have all the stuff you said i should have. (30%, ETC) So now it's up to me how i want to unlock and train?
(btw, 6+12+18=36)
If i'm building this dot for a really long run, how effective would it be to put aside ALL skill points until like the 2nd season then using them all? Just curious. It would help the long run, wouldn't it?

Originally posted by ClutchDreams

Ok, so i have all the stuff you said i should have. (30%, ETC) So now it's up to me how i want to unlock and train?
(btw, 6+12+18=36)
If i'm building this dot for a really long run, how effective would it be to put aside ALL skill points until like the 2nd season then using them all? (when having ehough to hit like the 3rd cap IE) Just curious. It would help the long run, wouldn't it?
Crap ^^^^ clicked quote instead of edit. :|

God dammit. Ignore this "you only need capped vision" crap. Your returner should end with approximately 70 vision.

Originally posted by ClutchDreams

Ok, so i have all the stuff you said i should have. (30%, ETC) So now it's up to me how i want to unlock and train?
(btw, 6+12+18=36)
If i'm building this dot for a really long run, how effective would it be to put aside ALL skill points until like the 2nd season then using them all? Just curious. It would help the long run, wouldn't it?


No, not at all, because you would forfeit the benefits of ALGs, and your build would suffer badly. You spend SPs whenever you can hit the next cap in whichever skill you are concentrating on.

Originally posted by Longhornfan1024
God dammit. Ignore this "you only need capped vision" crap. Your returner should end with approximately 70 vision.
Which is just past 2nd cap ish? Damn. Im confused lol.

Originally posted by Coutinho

No, not at all, because you would forfeit the benefits of ALGs, and your build would suffer badly. You spend SPs whenever you can hit the next cap in whichever skill you are concentrating on.
Ok, thanks. That makes sense.

Originally posted by ClutchDreams

Which is just past 2nd cap ish? Damn. Im confused lol.


As I said... there'll be plenty of variations by different builders. I generally end up near 70(vision) somehow... but I do not put ANY SP's into vision until near the end. Remember the progression. Speed #1, Agility #2, Carrying #3. Concentrate on those 3 above all else and you'll find the way to get vision, stamina, and strength up along the way. Also remember, there's 2 ways to do your multi-training (if you go with 4 total slots... which most do)... #1.) INCLUDE your primary(speed) as a fixed slot so that it is always being trained... or #2.) use your OPEN slot for training your primary(speed) and swap out once you've achieved the end number you desire (100-105 natural). I use to do it the first way I mention... I've been doing it the second way for several seasons now and like it much better.
You've got a long way to go with the build. Work on the extra stuff later... concentrate on nothing but speed your first season... and, most likely, pretty deep into your second season (I don't remember when it finally hits "too much cost" but I think it's late in the second season).

Originally posted by Theo Wizzago
As I said... there'll be plenty of variations by different builders. I generally end up near 70(vision) somehow... but I do not put ANY SP's into vision until near the end. Remember the progression. Speed #1, Agility #2, Carrying #3. Concentrate on those 3 above all else and you'll find the way to get vision, stamina, and strength up along the way. Also remember, there's 2 ways to do your multi-training (if you go with 4 total slots... which most do)... #1.) INCLUDE your primary(speed) as a fixed slot so that it is always being trained... or #2.) use your OPEN slot for training your primary(speed) and swap out once you've achieved the end number you desire (100-105 natural). I use to do it the first way I mention... I've been doing it the second way for several seasons now and like it much better.
You've got a long way to go with the build. Work on the extra stuff later... concentrate on nothing but speed your first season... and, most likely, pretty deep into your second season (I don't remember when it finally hits "too much cost" but I think it's late in the second season).
Focus, but i can start putting in the multi train as soon as i have enough for 20% on 3 slots, and i have enough to ge tthe 3, right?
And that would be around lik 70 Speed i estimate?