Warrior General Games

3AE, 1492 EL estimate

Spd: 141 (86 + 55)
Agi: 73
Catch: 108
Jump: 90
Vis: 57
Stam: 55
Carry: 51
Strength: 49
15 Route Run (8+6+1)
11 Sticky Hands (10+1)
11 Jump Catch (10+1)
4 quick cut
25.5% catch% (15%+15%+12%)

Anything you'd change?

needs Juke, Catch Fake, Fake %

Fakes is how most receivers get open

Carrying too low, imo.

IMHO...

That's not a possession WR. That's just a slow speedster

A Possession WR has to beat the DB's "go first roll"

Originally posted by Bort July 29, 2011

Question~~ In this cb vs WR roll (step 4), does Jumping always come into play for the WR like it does for the cb (step 2/3)? or Is WR jumping only for "special" catches like high throws or diving catches? Has the above information been changed or updated since it was posted? Can you elaborate on the WR vs cb roll at all? At the very least, is it logical given real life pass interference rules, or do players actually fight for the ball?
Answer~~ The interaction is still the same.
*** It's pretty much that whoever has the highest "get the ball" roll gets to act first. ***
This includes your vision, jumping, catching, strength attributes, and catch/swat SA's/VAs/pcts. Jumping improves the WR catch roll for all catches, but much more so for jumping/diving catches.

before anyone jumps in with "doesn't work blah blah blah..."
https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/game.pl?game_id=43295
Unless you think Tomcic and Red suck

The possession WRs went 14 catches on 16 targets, and one of the misses was a bad throw. 7+ yard average, so it's not cheeseball screens.
https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=43295&pbp_id=360387

Possession WRs do not need to get open. As a matter of fact, you specifically don't want them to get open. That's how INTs happen.

They just have to "go first" and catch the ball, and then hang on to it through all the KLs.

Originally posted by TJ Spikes
*** It's pretty much that whoever has the highest "get the ball" roll gets to act first. *** This includes your vision, jumping, catching, strength attributes, and catch/swat SA's/VAs/pcts.

That's a pile of info I just soaked in. Do we know what all goes into the "get the ball" roll first equation? The "includes" part in the quote above tells me there's more than what's listed? (vision, jumping, catching, strength attributes, and catch/swat SA's/VAs/pcts)

That's one way of looking at it. I choose to believe it means if it's not listed there, it doesn't go into that roll specifically.

Originally posted by TJ Spikes
IMHO...

That's not a possession WR. That's just a slow speedster

A Possession WR has to beat the DB's "go first roll"

Originally posted by Bort July 29, 2011

Question~~ In this cb vs WR roll (step 4), does Jumping always come into play for the WR like it does for the cb (step 2/3)? or Is WR jumping only for "special" catches like high throws or diving catches? Has the above information been changed or updated since it was posted? Can you elaborate on the WR vs cb roll at all? At the very least, is it logical given real life pass interference rules, or do players actually fight for the ball?
Answer~~ The interaction is still the same.
*** It's pretty much that whoever has the highest "get the ball" roll gets to act first. ***
This includes your vision, jumping, catching, strength attributes, and catch/swat SA's/VAs/pcts. Jumping improves the WR catch roll for all catches, but much more so for jumping/diving catches.

before anyone jumps in with "doesn't work blah blah blah..."
https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/game.pl?game_id=43295 https://basketballstars-game.io
Unless you think Tomcic and Red suck

The possession WRs went 14 catches on 16 targets, and one of the misses was a bad throw. 7+ yard average, so it's not cheeseball screens.
https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=43295&pbp_id=360387

Possession WRs do not need to get open. As a matter of fact, you specifically don't want them to get open. That's how INTs happen.

They just have to "go first" and catch the ball, and then hang on to it through all the KLs.



Thanks for the detailed explanation! It's interesting to see how possession WRs are designed to function within the game mechanics. The idea that they don't necessarily need to get open, but rather win the "go first" roll, definitely changes the strategy. The emphasis on attributes like vision, jumping, and catching makes sense, especially for making those crucial contested catches. It's clear from the examples you provided that possession WRs can be incredibly effective when used correctly. Thanks for sharing the insight!

The thing is, speed matters since it still takes time to run routes and get to "hot points" on the route where the QB will throw it.

Chris had some wr's he messed around with before retiring. They played at about 110 spd and did kinda ok, but as he swapped less speed for more catching their catch rates plummeted. That is because the QB held the ball longer and got more pressure, resulting in worse pass quality due to the wr's ultra slow speed.

Based on the speed script, the RC team possession receivers in WL likely have 130 spd or so (route run makes this a tad less clear).

Nice thing about the wr in the OP is it's 141 max speed and 125 min speed since 16 is movable via CE + regular equip slot.

Originally posted by Pwned
Carrying too low, imo.

Probably true, do we thinking getting carrying to 60 vs 50 would make a significant difference in # of KL in a season?

Sneaky AF bot. Basketball stars indeed

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
Probably true, do we thinking getting carrying to 60 vs 50 would make a significant difference in # of KL in a season?

IMO, no. Mid 50s still gets crushed. B4i as the bonus SA is a difference maker. Not sure if Cover Up is the store brand version for cheaper. Also Not Fumble % gear to match FF%. It's something that has to be built into the design, or at least decide how many KLs the team is comfortable with.

Fwiw, I'm not implying Possession WRs are amazeballs or anything. They're a different tool to have in the toolbox. Like a change up makes a fast ball more effective. You need speed guys to create vertical space in the defense. You couldn't have all possession guys.

They do take special attention. Don't just throw one on a roster.

Originally posted by WiSeIVIaN
The thing is, speed matters since it still takes time to run routes and get to "hot points" on the route where the QB will throw it.

Chris had some wr's he messed around with before retiring. They played at about 110 spd and did kinda ok, but as he swapped less speed for more catching their catch rates plummeted. That is because the QB held the ball longer and got more pressure, resulting in worse pass quality due to the wr's ultra slow speed.

Based on the speed script, the RC team possession receivers in WL likely have 130 spd or so (route run makes this a tad less clear).

Nice thing about the wr in the OP is it's 141 max speed and 125 min speed since 16 is movable via CE + regular equip slot.


Welp, my evil plans have been foiled. Wanted to build a "who cares about speed possession WR" after reading the thread, I'll delete him today it looks like

Originally posted by dusk883

Welp, my evil plans have been foiled. Wanted to build a "who cares about speed possession WR" after reading the thread, I'll delete him today it looks like


No need to take my word for it.

Johnny Keys has like 80 speed 15 real life years ago. Wasn't worthless, but the ultra low speed makes it really really hard to run more than a couple routes, and really really hard to get down field.


To put it in nfl terms, a guy who runs a 4.6 is 7% slower than a guy that runs a 4.3. If a 4.3 is 160 spd glb, then a 4.6 is 148 spd. Having literally half the speed of other players equals a 8.6 second 40 which isn't an NFL player.

I'd say 110 as the absolute minimum, but I'd never make a wr lower than 120 spd at this point.

Unfortunately, I didn't record the link to the thread, but I found this in an old private forum. Thought it might be relevant, so sharing now:

Originally posted by Bort...
"It is fairly complicated as there are lots of situations, but the general gist is (if I'm the CB): - I have to see the ball is coming in the first place (vision check) - I have to get into position near enough the the ball to interact with it (speed/agility etc) - I have to check if I am even going to get a chance to interact with the ball (Int check? No? swat check instead?) - If I'm near the WR, I have to fight with him to see who gets a chance at the ball (my roll vs his roll) - If I win, I get to intercept or swat the ball. (depends on first roll type that succeeded, and if the WR gives me trouble catching it) - If I lose, the receiver gets to try and catch the ball. It's all up to him now, though my being close by makes it harder on him. - If the receiver fails to catch the ball, I get once more chance to try and intercept it if I am close enough. - If the receiver catches it, now I've got to tackle him. Here's my chance to knock it loose with a good hit. "

Originally posted by Ravenwood
Unfortunately, I didn't record the link to the thread, but I found this in an old private forum. Thought it might be relevant, so sharing now:

Originally posted by Bort...
"It is fairly complicated as there are lots of situations, but the general gist is (if I'm the CB): - I have to see the ball is coming in the first place (vision check) - I have to get into position near enough the the ball to interact with it (speed/agility etc) - I have to check if I am even going to get a chance to interact with the ball (Int check? No? swat check instead?) - If I'm near the WR, I have to fight with him to see who gets a chance at the ball (my roll vs his roll) - If I win, I get to intercept or swat the ball. (depends on first roll type that succeeded, and if the WR gives me trouble catching it) - If I lose, the receiver gets to try and catch the ball. It's all up to him now, though my being close by makes it harder on him. - If the receiver fails to catch the ball, I get once more chance to try and intercept it if I am close enough. - If the receiver catches it, now I've got to tackle him. Here's my chance to knock it loose with a good hit. "

https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=3713826&page=26#32784854

Also

https://glb.warriorgeneral.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=4675729&page=7#42983723