Warrior General Games

*****TL;DR:*****
The purpose of this is to evaluate the workings of Passing Mechanics in the game. Some of the items being looked at include: to significantly reduce pass quality as pass distance increased, and to make it inherently more difficult to catch a pass when being double or triple covered, increase KL frequency back towards where it used to be before we nerfed it, and again increase the effectiveness of zone defenses a bit more to help counter the pass game. And finally looking at making Catching a more important part of the equation for a receiver, rather than relying totally on +% Catch Ball AEQ and VA's.

*****Test Teams involved:*****

Sim Test Teams 1, 2, 3 and 4 are all involved on this test.

*****Methods:*****

Each testing team completes the following requirements:

Run 25 games at level 38

Run 25 games at level 72+

Both of these are completed running pass plays of all distance and receiver type, and the AI's are set to be realistic, rather than just basic AI's. These are set up as an OC would set the AI to win a game.

*****Results*****


Sim Test Team 2 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3024
Sim Test Team 2 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3025
Sim Test Team 2 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3026
Sim Test Team 2 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3027
Sim Test Team 2 - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3028

Sim Test Team 4 - Passing Game Changes - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=2887
Sim Test Team 4 - Passing Game Changes - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=2888
Sim Test Team 4 - Passing Game Changes - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=2889
Sim Test Team 4 - Passing Game Changes - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=2890
Sim Test Team 4 - Passing Game Changes - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=2891
Sim Test Team 4 - Passing Game Changes - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=2892
Sim Test Team 4 - Passing Game Changes - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=2893
Sim Test Team 4 - Level 72 Passing Game Changes http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3020
Sim Test Team 4 - Level 72 Passing Game Changes http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3023
Sim Test Team 4 - Level 72 Passing Game Changes http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3021
Sim Test Team 4 - Level 72 Passing Game Changes http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3022
Sim Test Team 4 - Passing Game Changes - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=2894
Sim Test Team 4 - Passing Game Changes - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=2895
Sim Test Team 4 - Passing Game Changes - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=2896
Sim Test Team 4 - Passing Game Changes - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=2897
Sim Test Team 4 - Passing Game Changes - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=2898
Sim Test Team 4 - Passing Game Changes - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=2899
Sim Test Team 4 -Passing Game Changes - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=2900
Sim Test Team 4 - Passing Game Changes - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=2901
Sim Test Team 4 - Passing Game Changes - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3017
Sim Test Team 4 - Passing Game Changes - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3018
Sim Test Team 4 - Level 38 Passing Game Changes http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=2903
Sim Test Team 4 - Level 38 Passing Game Changes http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=2904
Sim Test Team 4 - Level 38 Passing Game Changes - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=2921
Sim Test Team 4 - Level 38 Passing Game Changes - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=2923
Sim Test Team 4 - Level 38 Passing Game Changes - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=2924
Sim Test Team 4 - Level 38 Passing Game Changes - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=2925
Sim Test Team 4 - Level 38 Passing Game Changes - http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=2926
Sim Test Team 4 - Level 33 Passing Game Changes http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=2905
Sim Test Team 4 - Level 33 Passing Game Changes http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=2907
Sim Test Team 4 - Level 33 Passing Game Changes http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=2908
Sim Test Team 4 - Level 33 Passing Game Changes http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=2909
Sim Test Team 4 - Level 33 Passing Game Changes http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=2910
Sim Test Team 4 - Level 33 Passing Game Changes http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=2911
Sim Test Team 4 - Level 33 Passing Game Changes http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=2912
Sim Test Team 4 - Level 33 Passing Game Changes (with Pass Focus Man Defense) http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=2949
Sim Test Team 4 - Level 33 Passing Game Changes (with Pass Focus Man Defense) http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=2950
Sim Test Team 4 - Level 33 Passing Game Changes (with Pass Focus Man Defense) http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=2951
Sim Test Team 4 - Level 33 Passing Game Changes (with Pass Focus Man Defense) http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=2952
Sim Test Team 4 - Level 33 Passing Game Changes (with Pass Focus Man Defense) http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=2953

*****Comments******

This quote from Catch relates to the way the test sim is set up during these games

Originally posted by Catch22

- New method to calculate a player's risk. Still messing with this part.
- New method to find an open spot to throw to, away from defenders. I currently have this turned on 100% of the time instead of based on vision like it should be eventually.
- Make deflections lower pass quality a lot more
- Make deflections a little more likely
- Change creative route running to only update path every 5 ticks and allow it to work throughout the route. This seems to work pretty good from what I can tell, less stutteryness, etc
- Add a "get open" method at the end of routes where defenders sorta "push" the receiver away from them. Tends to turn everything into sideline routes or streaks, so I think it needs some extra logic of some sort.
- Give coverage defense a vision bonus on 3rd/4th down
- Fix a problem with defense coverage delay being turned off. Defenders were only getting faked entirely, not reaction delayed like they used to.
- Give zone reaction a little boost, and less affected by coverage delay
- Add a vision check to catch roll that lowers catch chance formula output if failed
- Up the penalty to catching from moving fast
- Upped the chance for overthrow on bad passes

Additional idea I'm messing with: allow QB change to see more than one player at once, within some angle range of his current checkdown. Maybe find more open guys underneath, etc. I'm kinda worried about how this might confuse some peoples' ideas of how checkdowns work, but it makes some sense realism-wise.

Originally posted by rockitsauce
Sim Test Team 4 - Base Game 1 of 20 - Level 33 Passing Game Changes
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=2954
QB: Throwdown - Sometimes, Favor Long - No, Style - 0, Priority - 0
Passing was extremely difficult. Even with open receivers there were a lot of drops.
Only 4 deflected passes caught.
Rare QB drop off. Tons and tons of coverage sackes. Over 3 seconds to throw numerous times on sacks.
Deep pass completion rate was very low. Shorter passes better, but still not great.
HB/FB dropped far more than they caught.
Coverage changes reflected well.
Even though QB was set to not favor long passes, he seemed to defer to the long pass over often open short routes.

Originally posted by rockitsauce

I was really wanting to watch for the receivers at the end of their routes and how the creative activation worked. It was just beautiful. A number of the receptions were due to this.
changes were subtle, which I think is good. At first I thought the "end of route" move was too powerful, but then I didnt notice it much after that.
I am seeing relatively lopsided games here, in both directions, between the same 2 teams, not sure if something is going on with confidence.

Originally posted by stizz

really seems too hard too pass to me - serious numbers of coverage sacks, hurries on well more than half the attempts. I dont know how much of it has to do with playing 1 QB the whole game with very low stamina.... but the results of switching to man defense and away from zone are pretty darn dramatic

So far, many of the level 33-38 games have seen significant amounts of dropped passes.

*****Conclusion*****

This test is ongoing and will be for all of Season 18. I will update this as more test results No changes have been decided on for the actual sim, and none are expected until at least Season 19.

_________________________________________________________

Some new changes to the Passing Game on the Test Server

Originally posted by Catch22
10/14 Addition:

Originally posted by Bort
Originally posted by Bort
Updated coverage:

- Make aggressive guys only jump inside so far, depending on how much help they have.
- Update semi/normal/loose positioning after the pass as well
- Add a reaction time modifier for zone based on distance from the player who's getting the ball
- Bump up the man coverage delay offset by an extra tick.
- Don't bother to even try to read screen if within 4 yds of the QB.
- Adjusted calculation of position for deep zone repositioning when receiver goes past its Y boundary


10/25 additions:

- Adjustment to pass blocker intercept logic when QB rolls out
- Allow WR to come to the ball for a jumping catch in high risk situations just like defender can
- Modify pass quality falloff to be sooner, making deep passes quite a bit harder (maybe too hard)
- Do not allow coverage delay within first few ticks of play, or when moving very slowly. Addresses bug with "frozen" defender at start of play
- Bump 3rd/4th down coverage bonuses a bit
- Add a failsafe for QB having invalid checkdown "freeze"
- Address end of route players running through endzone

**********Methods************

http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3097 Tactics
QB
Style = 0
Priority = 0
Scramble = Never
Dump = Often
Favor Long = No
Throw Away = Conservative
CB
Cushion = 0
Style = Aggressive
SS/FS
Cushion = 0
Style = Semi Aggressive
WR
Route = Exact

Short = 50
Medium = 25
Long = 25
Def = 4-3
Blitz = 100

http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3095 Tactics

QB
Style = -100
Priority = -100
Scramble = Never
Dump = Sometimes
Favor Long = Yes
Throw Away = Aggressive
CB
Cushion = 0
Style = Aggressive
SS/FS
Cushion = 0
Style = Medium
WR
Route = Exact

Short = 0
Medium = 50
Long = 50
Def = 3-4
Blitz = 0

http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3077 Tactics

All WRs on Exact Route.

All QBs:
-85 Bullet
-100 Open Man
Dump off: Sometimes
Favor long pass: No
Throw Away Thresh: Medium

Both teams have the same playcalling and defense.

Defense is the same for both teams (C2). No blitzing, extra defenders drop into coverage.

Florida State Seminoles (Pink)
All CBs and Safeties set on Semi-Aggressive, Extra cushion at -1 yd.

Florida Gators (Black/White)
All CBs and Safeties set on Aggressive, Extra cushion at -1 yd.

*************Newer Results************

http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3035
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3042
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3048
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3049
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3055
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3056
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3057
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3058
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3059
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3062
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3063
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3065
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3066
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3068
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3070
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3072
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3073
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3074
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3075
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3077
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3080
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3076
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3083
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3090
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3093
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3095
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3097
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3098
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3099

*************Comments********************

Originally posted by Pietasters
Pietasters : Base AI - Passing changes test 1 W/ Energy and Morale

http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=3060&mode=pbp

There were 10 Interceptions in game one out of 154 passes.
1) Look at how far the FS comes in the time the ball is thrown. I have no issue with the CB who is on aggressive making a play. But the FS is in the situation to get the pass defend before the WR even gets to do anything with the ball. This is one of the strong reasons you see non speed builds have issues.
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658596
2) Good play by the CB
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658629
3) Look at the CB that is suppose to cover CB3 completely weird. Really shouldn't be any way that the FS makes the Interception here. He is way to far from the WR and the ball.
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=65865
4) CB makes a good play
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658669
5) Normally you see over thrown Interceptions but this one is behind the receiver. Kinda cool.
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658672
6) Both the CB and FS seem to go for the interception.
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658707
7) The SS seems to be covering the TE but makes the pick off of the WR.
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658723
8) SS in man coverage on the TE makes the Pick.
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658726
9) CB makes the pick on this long throw. But look at the distance the FS moves to get back into the play.
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658743
10) CB covering WR2 comes across and makes the pick on a throw to WR1
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658813



There were 12 sacks
1) MLB comes through untouched
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658601
2) Good Coverage sack 6 Defenders vs 6 blockers
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658605
3) DE makes a Solid play to get to the QB
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658630
4) ROLB gets through untouched
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658637
5) Good sack
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658650
6) Good sack
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658654
7) Good sack
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658675
8) Good Sack
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658685
9) Good Sack
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658727
10) MLB comes thru untouched
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658734

Long Passes
1) FS is pump faked allowing a WR to get behind coverage and take it 75 yards.
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658607
2) WR1 in a one on one situation. CB on aggressive and bites. WR gone for 69 yards.
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658611
3) WR 1 - CB on aggressive FS doesn't seem to really be in the play
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658687
4) WR 2 - CB on aggressive 64 Yards
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658702

WR Screen - The Blockers don't seem to even look at the CB that is assigned to cover the WR. Someone should be looking to block that defender.
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658600

Crazy ball response plays
1) The FS is deep and even backs up yet gets to the play right when the ball gets there.
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658619
2) Look at 4 defenders are on top of the HB right as the ball gets there.
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658620
3) The WR loses his CB. The FS comes out of Man Coverage of another WR and SS out of zone to make a play at the ball.
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658642
4) Look at the response of the ROLB. He knows where the ball is going even before the ball is thrown.
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658647
5) Look at the FS, he is pump faked and still covers the distance to make a play at the ball.
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658649
6) Look at the distance the SS covers in the time the ball is thrown.
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658693
7) MLB suppose to be covering the HB pulls off and covers WR3 deep.
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658731


QB Recognition
1) Ok so the CB peals off WR3 to help cover WR 1. It's like the defenders know before the QB where he is going to throw it. How about waiting for WR 3 to get through the middle or the HB who is also running free.
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658622

Bad plays - could be a bug
1) The MLB is suppose to cover the HB, he enters the pocket and goes back out. His path isn't correct why didn't he go for the sack?
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658644
2) Why does the CB peel off the WR?
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3060&pbp_id=658667

Originally posted by tonnyrat
I don't understand how both these INTs happened as the pass isn't listed as deflected but it certainly looks like it. Are the dots simply jumping and catching these at the LOS?
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3059&pbp_id=658381
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3059&pbp_id=658504

Originally posted by tonnyrat
For reference, these are the passing %'s by QB per quarter for the other 2 games I ran. I didn't use the 1st 2 games because there was an AI error and RPP skewed the results.

G3: Morale and Stamina are OFF (only 2 QBs played because of energy settings)
1st Q completion rates p/QB: 52%, 50%
2nd Q completion rates p/QB: 72%, 47%
3rd Q completion rates p/QB: 42%, 47%
4th Q completion rates p/QB: 58%, 45%

G4: Morale and Stamina ON
1st Q completion rates p/QB: 36%, 50%, 58%, 33%
2nd Q completion rates p/QB: 46%, 37%, 20%, 71%
3rd Q completion rates p/QB: 23%, 16%, 23%, 36%
4th Q completion rates p/QB: 62%, 40%, 36%, 70%

Visually, the sim looks fine in that the changes set out to do what they're intended to. Double coverage is great at preventing catches vs the live sim. My only concern is that maybe these changes are too powerful when looking at the stats. Might it be that the D's reactions are happening too fast?

Originally posted by Rage Kinard
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3083&pbp_id=664459

FS should be drifting back as play progresses if no one comes into his zone. (I'm assuming middle 1/3. If it's deep middle he should really be dropping back.)

Were a lot of plays that weren't completed in single coverage this game. I'd like to see more passes like this completed, but would be even better if WR were led a little better. Without FS drop that would probably mean a sure TD. If FS is drifting back, then he has shot at making a tackle.

http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3083&pbp_id=664441 A couple of things here. This is one reason I think OL should give up a little ground for pass protection. This is a 2 yard gain and a NT actively being blocked while rushing the passer makes the tackle. No way this should happen. The other thing is, it's great for QB to throw this quickly when the blitz is coming and pressure is getting there. In this situation I'd like to see QB hold onto it longer and let play develop a bit as it looks like WRs are breaking into open territory.

Originally posted by rockitsauce
Completion rates on 3rd down are through the roof. On 1st and 2nd down completion rates are 50%, but on 3rd down they rise to 60%. Even on 3rd & greater than 10 the completion rate sits at 60%. If coverage defense is given a vision bonus on 3rd down how can we be seeing a greater completion rate? I'm not seeing any special VAs for 3rd down conversion on the offensive side of the ball.

Of all the changes we're testing this is the one that jumps out at me as the most out of line.

The only other obvious thing is the receivers running out of the end zone when on elusive after their route is finished.

Originally posted by PP
Observations
The QB and coverage man freezes definitely need to be fixed
I generally like the interactions between the CBs and WRs more, as it seems the CBs are a little delayed in reacting to the WRs and that's as it should be
WRs running out of the back of the EZ needs to be fixed
I think the PQ/completion rate over distance needs more work. IMO, too many passes are still being completed deep and not enough short. I'm just pulling these #s out of the air, but maybe something like this, not counting sacks or hurries 0-5 85+% 5-10 65% 10-15 50%, 15-20 35% 20+ 20%...Those #s may actually seem a little high, until you factor in hurries and sacks.
I truly believe that something MUST be done to force the blitzers to read the play. I know some super secret announcement is about to be made, but I don't see how one can ever make overload blitzes with a 135+ speed LB a risk/reward thing unless the blitzer is forced to read both the snap and play. When one has an every down instant recation, it will always simply cause problems.

Originally posted by tonnyrat

New EZ fix isn't working:
WR and TE run through the EZ on TE Drive play.
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3098&pbp_id=667877
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3098&pbp_id=667920
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3098&pbp_id=667919
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3098&pbp_id=667931
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3098&pbp_id=667952
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3098&pbp_id=668099 - gives the Im Open signal outside of the EZ and comes back for TD catch

EZ borders seem to work here:
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3098&pbp_id=668043

No frozen defender and no broken progression plays.

Originally posted by Mike rogers

I have serious concerns with the QBs decision making regards to coverage, specifically how confident a QB is in forcing a long pass into heaviliy covered recievers, especially where other Dots are open. This seems to also disregard down and distance and may be a case of too many user controlled options.
http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=3098&pbp_id=667870 : This is a case of poor play design forcing
a QB to throw into deep double/triple coverage. While I'm happy to see it as an incomplete, firstly the QB shouldnt be trying that pass on a first and ten, and secondly the WR drag route is open and targetted, so whats stopping the pass, lack of yardage? I think thats a reason for some passing game issues that are trying to be fixed by Sim balancing, when play design and the metagame player tactics are a bigger factor.