Warrior General Games

like I said, only way it'll likely happen is if we do the Returner position and then there is no need for the RS SA in the CB tree.

Well one thing to check would being able to take return specialist twice (two SA's.. Extra SA and Tree SA) how would that affect a player and their performance. Would having AEQ with Return Specialist on it add it sbonus to both, etc.

Could create a monster there.

Longhorns Idea is actually quite logical and we would have a Man Coverage SA tree and a Zone Coverage SA tree.

Still leave it as selectable though as an Extra SA for Safety position.

Not at all a fan of this.

This is a MAJOR change to the game. Maybe not now, or for the next season or two, but eventually these newer players are going to kill the older players.

The idea itself is great and adds a nice element to the game.

But it doesn't need to be added on the fly like the plan is. Save it for the post-BETA version.

But I guess now I understand why it is being added the way it is...

This "post-BETA version" I speak of is nothing more than a myth, so yeah....

Originally posted by John Waylon
Not at all a fan of this.

This is a MAJOR change to the game. Maybe not now, or for the next season or two, but eventually these newer players are going to kill the older players.

The idea itself is great and adds a nice element to the game.

But it doesn't need to be added on the fly like the plan is. Save it for the post-BETA version.

But I guess now I understand why it is being added the way it is...

This "post-BETA version" I speak of is nothing more than a myth, so yeah....

Not sure where this idea is coming from. We actually ran two test games with archetype builds against current game builds, and the current game builds came out on top both times. Not saying it's the best example, but it was a test done to gauge any possibly "overpowered" concepts within the builds.

On top of that, yes, there will be more "extreme" builds with the archetypes, but the sim changes being proposed are going to encourage more balanced, and less extreme builds.

Also, this plan isn't "on the fly". It was in development before I got into the test server in early February, it was continuing to be developed, and has been tested. We've built two entire teams of archetype end builds, pitted them against each other, and are continuing to test to find any possible mismatches the players may bring into the game.

The Post-Beta version is not a myth, but it won't happen until we address the key issues, and archetypes are definitely something that many people wanted, including myself.

I usually don't post in these major discussions but feel a need to this time. For the players complaining about changes, please stop. These changes aren't just made cuz the game designers are bored and wanna see what happens if you push this or that button... they're made based on flaws found durring the course of play or because they see a better way to make the game more enjoyable. Is it a pain in the ass for some of you, yeah. Suck it up and work with it.

For the designers, I've seen a lot about 'boosting' this or that ability or whatever, but not much about using the player design parameters to create prototypes. Example; Barry Sanders is NOT Earl Campbell and vise versa. Barry could elude, dance, weave, and juke.. then run like a tornado across Kansas to the endzone. Earl could stiffarm, thigh-pad-bounce, plow you over, and generally demoralize anyone in his path by requiring several tacklers to sometimes bring him down. If I wanted to catagorize those players as 'speed or combo' back vs power back, then I would make those skill sets for each different by causing the 'softcap' to be different for each type. A 'speed/combo' back would have a higher point where the cost for increasing speed and agility would increase (say starting at 30 points instead of 25 or whatever. And a 'power' back would have a lower point for the same skills (say 20 points instead of 25 or whatever). All would be based on the 'non-prototype' style or basic blank. Those skill sets that compliment a player's 'prototype' would have both higher softcaps in those and lower softcaps in uncomplimentary skills (along with some skills that would remain neutral). This would make building such a prototype player easier if you stick to the prototype... but still allow you to 'tweak' it to your personal style. SA's (or VA's) could still be used but the changing of the softcap levels would be much more indicitave of the 'prototype' than the SA's (or VA's), making the SA's (and/or VA's) complimentary instead of "the design ideal".

Just an idea if you really want to have 'prototype' players.

I just courious, as to why we can slide the mouse to a vet ability, or Special Abilities, and get a small explaination about that particualr item. Yet with the Archetype, we get nothing. With a timeline on this, I believe we should be able to at least see what all extra attributes this has. Yes, it is somewhat self explainatory, yet now we have to decide on what we want our player / players to be.

I have a fullback that I am building to be a scat back with a combo of fullback abilities. He was ranked #1 in his conference season 14 on a Championship team. Now I have to add something to him. So what all comes with the Archetype scat back selection?

I have a few players that I have built, now I have to make each player a certian type of player. I sometime have limited time, therefore, in wiki, or somewhere there should be a list of all the new Archetype and their main abilities. This guide could easily help a lot of players choose the right Archetype.

Originally posted by lilcokeman
I just courious, as to why we can slide the mouse to a vet ability, or Special Abilities, and get a small explaination about that particualr item. Yet with the Archetype, we get nothing. With a timeline on this, I believe we should be able to at least see what all extra attributes this has. Yes, it is somewhat self explainatory, yet now we have to decide on what we want our player / players to be.

I have a fullback that I am building to be a scat back with a combo of fullback abilities. He was ranked #1 in his conference season 14 on a Championship team. Now I have to add something to him. So what all comes with the Archetype scat back selection?

I have a few players that I have built, now I have to make each player a certian type of player. I sometime have limited time, therefore, in wiki, or somewhere there should be a list of all the new Archetype and their main abilities. This guide could easily help a lot of players choose the right Archetype.

If you choose select archetype, you can choose the various archetypes available for that position and text description will populate on the right.

Originally posted by Catch22
Originally posted by lilcokeman

I just courious, as to why we can slide the mouse to a vet ability, or Special Abilities, and get a small explaination about that particualr item. Yet with the Archetype, we get nothing. With a timeline on this, I believe we should be able to at least see what all extra attributes this has. Yes, it is somewhat self explainatory, yet now we have to decide on what we want our player / players to be.

I have a fullback that I am building to be a scat back with a combo of fullback abilities. He was ranked #1 in his conference season 14 on a Championship team. Now I have to add something to him. So what all comes with the Archetype scat back selection?

I have a few players that I have built, now I have to make each player a certian type of player. I sometime have limited time, therefore, in wiki, or somewhere there should be a list of all the new Archetype and their main abilities. This guide could easily help a lot of players choose the right Archetype.

If you choose select archetype, you can choose the various archetypes available for that position and text description will populate on the right.


Good deal. I was under the impression that if I selected one, that is what my player would be. Knowing that there is a selection to each is nice to know. Just a little timid on making that first click, lol. TY!

So when you decide to keep a player & choose a new archtype...the bonuses to minor & major attributes aren't retroactive, right? Why would anyone not retire?

Not sure if this is the right place to ask it, but it's good enough.

Will Head Hunter work on ST coverage?

Head Hunter Defense
The Headhunter ability gives a bonus to causing fumbles, big hits, and monster hits when this player is traveling at or near full speed.

This skill works best for secondary players who can fly in and make the big hit.

Additional Levels:
Increases bonus to causing fumbles, big hits, and monster hits.

Originally posted by Sean Payton
Not sure if this is the right place to ask it, but it's good enough.

Will Head Hunter work on ST coverage?

Head Hunter Defense
The Headhunter ability gives a bonus to causing fumbles, big hits, and monster hits when this player is traveling at or near full speed.

This skill works best for secondary players who can fly in and make the big hit.

Additional Levels:
Increases bonus to causing fumbles, big hits, and monster hits.

Just reading the description I would hope it works for Special Teams

Originally posted by Tigerbait0307
Just reading the description I would hope it works for Special Teams

Me too.

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So let me get this straight, now if you want to keep Zone Specialist, Scat Back, or Jackhammer past season 16, you MUST choose that archtype now?

Before, the idea was we'd keep any current points. Re-reading the announcement, it seems like there will be a FORCED reset after season 16, and at that time the skills will cease to exist unless you selected that archtype NOW?

I just want to clarify, b/c I came here a few weeks ago and asked if I could do scat back + spin on my FB, and now it seems that is no longer doable

Yes. you can select the SA now and save up to increase it, while holding onto the VA while it exists. The sim will use the one with the most in it.