Warrior General Games

Originally posted by pottsman
And it wasn't equally ridiculous to spend 4-6 seasons with offenses bringing in one dimensional players without giving the defense a way to key in on it? Because I sure wouldn't assign my best coverage linebacker to try to cover a TE built like Orlando Pace.

The difference is a good DC can scout a team and prepare for a rushing QB. A great OC can't scout a defense to see when their audible will come in. Especially if you're the only team in your conference with a rushing QB.

I have to agree with Josh on this, but then again if a DC gambles on a Goal Line D against a rushing QB that has passing equipment on; even his poor throwing will make quick work of the defense

Not only that, all it does it limit build variability even MORE narrow.

Originally posted by cwrujosh
Well that's a ridiculous counter argument. So the solution to giving the offenses a free ride in Season 11...is to give Defenses a free ride in Season 12? This game has to get away from doing that.

Offense has a advantage on the defense already. This makes it balanced now.

Originally posted by cwrujosh
Originally posted by pottsman

And it wasn't equally ridiculous to spend 4-6 seasons with offenses bringing in one dimensional players without giving the defense a way to key in on it? Because I sure wouldn't assign my best coverage linebacker to try to cover a TE built like Orlando Pace.

Well that's a ridiculous counter argument. So the solution to giving the offenses a free ride in Season 11...is to give Defenses a free ride in Season 12? This game has to get away from doing that.

Or, you know, offenses could make players capable of doing two things. You know, like defenses have to.

Originally posted by Frycicle
Offense has a advantage on the defense already. This makes it balanced now.

Wrong. Because there is no counter. Now the D can COMPLETELY shut down a play. They don't even need to be good to do it.

Originally posted by pottsman
Or, you know, offenses could make players capable of doing two things. You know, like defenses have to.

I lol'ed. Defensive builds in this game haven't changed since S4.

Originally posted by cwrujosh
Originally posted by Frycicle

Offense has a advantage on the defense already. This makes it balanced now.

Wrong. Because there is no counter. Now the D can COMPLETELY shut down a play. They don't even need to be good to do it.

I agree. I think tagging will hurt the game for a couple of reasons:

-AI just went from hard and time consuming to even harder and even more time consuming
-Defenses will be able to key in on anything, with 100% accuracy


THe only way it might work is if there was a 1 tag per game limit. You want to the defense to focus on taking 1 thing away, thats somewhat realistic. Them being set up to take everything away, well, its not realistic and it will be a ton of work for DCs.

Originally posted by cwrujosh
I lol'ed. Defensive builds in this game haven't changed since S4.

LOL

S7 says hi

Originally posted by HULK


I agree. I think tagging will hurt the game for a couple of reasons:

-AI just went from hard and time consuming to even harder and even more time consuming
-Defenses will be able to key in on anything, with 100% accuracy


This.

And shouldn't tagging along be enough to nerf screens? Why do we need to put in all the other nerfs too?

I mean if you see the scat back come in, then you put in a D to take away the edges and dare the scat back to run up the middle.

Why do we need to do all these other things on top of that?

Originally posted by cwrujosh
Wrong. Because there is no counter. Now the D can COMPLETELY shut down a play. They don't even need to be good to do it.

If a rushing QB has even moderate throwing/vision it's not that hard to have him in for a few plays a game handing the ball off to HBs or throwing a few easy passes like screens that way the defense can't completely adjust.

Same with elusive HBs. Have them weakside pitch sometimes or go up the middle instead of screen passing them 100% of the time. Have the blocking TE have moderate catching and have him on a few passing routes. Maybe the receiving TE on a few rushing plays (only 3-4).



Basically if you have the 1-dimensional players in for 4-5 plays a game in a slightly different situation the defense can't just load up as hazy did in his test.



I definitely agree this looks like wwaaaayyyy too much work and something that will result in even more AI errors. There has to be an easier way to do it. It'd be nice if offenses used my suggestions above and didn't just have QBs with 20 in throwing because they're busy with 110speed and 80agility or blocking TEs with 20 catching 110 strength 90 blocking. If the builds and play calling based on those builds weren't so absurd there wouldn't be a need for something like this. I just wish there was a better way than extra clunky play calling AI and packages.

Creative OCs won't have any problem with tagging. DCs overthinking the tagging will probably make things easier for OCs. Lazy people who want to have 25%hb slam, 25%pitch, 25% screen 25% other plays with never moving their blocking te or rushing qb will definitely be in trouble though.



Ugh. This just ensures i'm never coordinating again. Shit is a full time job

Originally posted by Bort
Yes, the tags are all named the same, so players playing out of position still carry the same tag. IE a QB tagged "speedy" would also be "speedy" in the HB slot or FB slot.

so hypothetically,
if I tag their Scat Back, and have a DAI set up to triple team the 'HB' position when the Scat Back is in the game, and they move their Scat Back to FB for a play, will the defense recognize that I want to triple team the 'Scat Back' whom I have tagged, or will they triple team the HB slot

Originally posted by chronoaug
Creative OCs won't have any problem with tagging. DCs overthinking the tagging will probably make things easier for OCs. Lazy people who want to have 25%hb slam, 25%pitch, 25% screen 25% other plays with never moving their blocking te or rushing qb will definitely be in trouble though.



Ugh. This just ensures i'm never coordinating again. Shit is a full time job

True, tagging is no obstacle for OCs.
But the scouting time needed before each game just gone up through the roof. U expect the good DCs having at least 3-4 times more DPC plays with tagging. Which mean that when I scout them I need to see 3-4 times more game film just to figure the defense out.

Originally posted by zakatakrr
so hypothetically,
if I tag their Scat Back, and have a DAI set up to triple team the 'HB' position when the Scat Back is in the game, and they move their Scat Back to FB for a play, will the defense recognize that I want to triple team the 'Scat Back' whom I have tagged, or will they triple team the HB slot

Look at the examples given.
You hav a tag for each position, so if the "speed" tag is in HB you need one DAI input, while if the "speed" tag is in the FB you need another DAI input. My guess that there is a "and" between the tag fields in the inputs.

Originally posted by tragula
Look at the examples given.
You hav a tag for each position, so if the "speed" tag is in HB you need one DAI input, while if the "speed" tag is in the FB you need another DAI input. My guess that there is a "and" between the tag fields in the inputs.

so in theory if an OC could put their speed back at any position on the field to force the defense into a certain DAI.

For example as a OC if I noticed that a team set out to shut down the outside runs with my 'Speed Back' in the game but left the middle weak, i could put the 'Speed Back' in at WR and then run the ball up the middle to exploit that D.

There are a million different scenarios like the one above that will force DCs to make the choice between:

using the Tagging Option - and having a DAI with 400+ inputs
or
Not using the Tagging Option

And I don't know about everyone else but that choice is pretty easy.