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r8
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I'm going to run some tests to look at the problem of CBs jumping the routes too early.
Information in this topic:
http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=2604272
Especially check the discussion starting on page 3.

Please bare with me over a day or two to get all of the tests done. I have a pretty loaded schedule, but I should be able to get them all in by Tuesday night.

-=-=Initial Theory=-=-

I feel like a lot of this overjumping the pass is just an intended side effect of the Aggressive setting. I've found a lot of examples of the CB jumping the pass that resulted in INTs or PDs, so this could just be a "working as intended" risk vs reward type thing. However, many people are making the case that even if this is the case, the CB is still making the jump too early, and some have also reported it happening on Semi-Aggressive. Both of these are valid points so I'm going to run some tests to see what kinds of changes may be needed.

-=-=Testing Plan=-=-

I'm going to run each scenario 2 times each, and compile the data of both successful and botched coverages to get an idea of how often it is working and how often the CB "whiffs."

Going to create 4 different CBs per team with varying builds, and set them up for high rotation so we get a good look at all of them. Then all of them will be set to the same tactics for different games, Close/Agg, Med/Agg, Close/Semi, etc. I'm not testing Loose or Far, however, because CBs likely never actually use those tactics.

The 4 CB Builds:
CB1: 90 spd 75 agi 60 vis 60 jump 60 catch 30 conf
CB2: 90 spd 75 agi 60 vis 60 jump 30 catch 60 conf
CB3: 90 spd 75 agi 60 vis 30 jump 60 catch 60 conf
CB4: 90 spd 75 agi 60 vis 30 jump 30 catch 60 conf

I'm keeping speed, agility, and vision as constants, and all of them will also have 5-5-8-5-7 and 3-3-0-0-0 SAs as constants.

CB1: High Catching and Jumping, Low Confidence
CB2: High Jumping and Confidence, Low Catching
CB3: High Catching and Confidence, Low Jumping
CB4: Low Jumping and Catching, High Confidence

-=-=Test Links=-=-

Close/Agg 1: http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=1057
Close/Agg 2: http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=1056

Med/Agg 1: http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=1065
Med/Agg 2: http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=1066

Far/Agg 1: http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=1067
Far/Agg 2: http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=1068

Close/Semi 1: http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=1061
Close/Semi 2: http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=1062

Med/Semi 1: http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=1069
Med/Semi 2:http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=1070

Close/Med 1: http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=1063
Close/Med 2: http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=1064

Med/Med 1: http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=1071
Med/Med 2: http://test.goallineblitz.com/game/game.pl?game_id=1072
Last edited May 5, 2009 20:37:06
 
tsimp93
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Sounds good!
 
jme42257
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this sounds great. will be checking this one out fo sho'
 
wrw47
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Are you including Ball Hawk in these tests?
 
im317
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Originally posted by wrw47
Are you including Ball Hawk in these tests?


you must not have read the linked thread. it has been proven that ball hawk is not to blame for this. it may increase the effect do to the increase in speed but its not the root of the problem.
 
ijg
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Originally posted by im317
Originally posted by wrw47

Are you including Ball Hawk in these tests?


you must not have read the linked thread. it has been proven that ball hawk is not to blame for this. it may increase the effect do to the increase in speed but its not the root of the problem.


even though I agree 100% it's not the problem, r8 should probaby do a test at some point just to make sure, but I think he is correct to do it at first without it to have a clean test on coverage settings.
 
wrw47
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Originally posted by ijg
Originally posted by im317

Originally posted by wrw47


Are you including Ball Hawk in these tests?


you must not have read the linked thread. it has been proven that ball hawk is not to blame for this. it may increase the effect do to the increase in speed but its not the root of the problem.


even though I agree 100% it's not the problem, r8 should probaby do a test at some point just to make sure, but I think he is correct to do it at first without it to have a clean test on coverage settings.


Documenting relevant VAs (I'd also class any other coverage-affecting VAs, such as Showboat or Long Reach, as potentially relevant) is an important part of documenting your testing conditions. If r8's trying to create realistic high-level builds (and from the level of SA investment, I conclude that he probably is), it's entirely reasonable to expect that the tests be done either with VAs as an independent variable, or with reasonable VAs for the level/build as a constant. Right now, I'm *assuming* that r8 is creating guys with no VAs, just as I'm *assuming* that he's having them play on pass focus. I'd prefer to have *all* the relevant data recorded. Hell, I don't know whether these tests are being done with man-to-man (and the 7 points in SDC are relevant), zone (and it'd be important to know whether the corners have zone specialist, but the SDC points aren't), or a mixture. Again, I *assume* that r8 is running these with man-to-man 100%. And I *assume* that he's running cover 2 man under or cover 1, so that he can look at help over the top vs. no help over the top. That's a lot of assumptions about the test's initial conditions, and neither this thread nor the linked one discusses them.

tl;dr: Request to document all testing inputs, even if you're holding them constant.
 
robponce
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Bueno
 
Mightyhalo
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I see it on aggressive. My CB normally rolls on semi and he has never jumped a route on that setting. But on aggressive he will jump them and when he does he normally misses, but today he picked 3 on aggressive so I'm not complaining.
 
Tigerbait0307
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Has anyone else noticed that the CBs will sometimes just keep backpedaling when the ball is thrown to there WR. Basically letting the WR catch the ball. I have seen it when the WR is covered by a FS and CB. Both defenders just keep backpedaling and don't even go for the ball.

CB1 when the ball is thrown he just keeps running almost out the back of the endzone. He has 70Vision and is playing on Close/Semi
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=477404&pbp_id=7864370

AgainCB2 has good coverage but just keeps backpedaling.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=477404&pbp_id=7863165
Again just lets the WR catch the ball.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=477404&pbp_id=7863933
 
G33
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On paper, the one problem with this test seems to be that the CB1 is stated to have only 30 confidence, while the others have 60. That could skew test results. If the purpose of the test is to test jumping and catching, confidence should remain constant for all CBs. To properly test the possible effect of confidence and CB route jumping, an additional set of tests should be run with all CBs having 30 confidence. They should also have no VAs.
Last edited May 4, 2009 19:02:07
 
Black Peter
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Oops! Sorry double post.
Last edited May 4, 2009 19:16:41
 
Black Peter
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Originally posted by Tigerbait0307
Has anyone else noticed that the CBs will sometimes just keep backpedaling when the ball is thrown to there WR. Basically letting the WR catch the ball. I have seen it when the WR is covered by a FS and CB. Both defenders just keep backpedaling and don't even go for the ball.

CB1 when the ball is thrown he just keeps running almost out the back of the endzone. He has 70Vision and is playing on Close/Semi
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=477404&pbp_id=7864370

AgainCB2 has good coverage but just keeps backpedaling.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=477404&pbp_id=7863165
Again just lets the WR catch the ball.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=477404&pbp_id=7863933


Yes, happens often. The whole coverage game is very seriously "broken", IM(ns)HO. So much for S9 - turning into another asterisked season
 
tautology
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Originally posted by Tigerbait0307
Has anyone else noticed that the CBs will sometimes just keep backpedaling when the ball is thrown to there WR. Basically letting the WR catch the ball. I have seen it when the WR is covered by a FS and CB. Both defenders just keep backpedaling and don't even go for the ball.

CB1 when the ball is thrown he just keeps running almost out the back of the endzone. He has 70Vision and is playing on Close/Semi
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=477404&pbp_id=7864370

AgainCB2 has good coverage but just keeps backpedaling.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=477404&pbp_id=7863165
Again just lets the WR catch the ball.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=477404&pbp_id=7863933


I'd say talk to your crappy DC for that travesty

The first one might well be a bug...that looked pretty ridiculous.

I think the other two are just something that happens occasionally...more vision and agility seem to help.
 
Tigerbait0307
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Originally posted by tautology
Originally posted by Tigerbait0307

Has anyone else noticed that the CBs will sometimes just keep backpedaling when the ball is thrown to there WR. Basically letting the WR catch the ball. I have seen it when the WR is covered by a FS and CB. Both defenders just keep backpedaling and don't even go for the ball.

CB1 when the ball is thrown he just keeps running almost out the back of the endzone. He has 70Vision and is playing on Close/Semi
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=477404&pbp_id=7864370

AgainCB2 has good coverage but just keeps backpedaling.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=477404&pbp_id=7863165
Again just lets the WR catch the ball.
http://goallineblitz.com/game/replay.pl?game_id=477404&pbp_id=7863933


I'd say talk to your crappy DC for that travesty

The first one might well be a bug...that looked pretty ridiculous.

I think the other two are just something that happens occasionally...more vision and agility seem to help.


At first I was going to blame the DC. Then I thought no way he messed up. Its got to be a bug
 
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