Warrior General Games

People are going livid about power backs trucking DTs, about DTs flying around like mosquitos, about OTs being able to fend off Speed Rushing DEs as if their little skipping school girls. The solution is obvious. Make certain players' skills hindered. How do we do this?

Solution A: Limit Players Effectiveness by Position DENIED
-Why I don't like this approach: Just because a player is at the LB position shouldn't mean he can't be as strong as a DE. Some DEs are in the 250lb range, while some LBs are in the 250lb range. Limiting a players abilities based on his POSITION is not the way to go about it

Solution B: Put Positional Caps on Skills DENIED
-Why I don't like this approach: Not only would this require a large reworking of the current players, but it's just putting a band-aid on a larger issue. 100Speed on any player shouldn't be the same.

Solution C: Weight Caps on Skills Maybe
- Why I don't like this approach: If this was Day 1, I'd be all for it. However, there are already THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDs of players that have been created without these caps. To implement them now would cause tremendous problems with interaction between current and new players. This would be insanely complex to figure out, and implement. Adding a simple formula to the SIM seems to be the way to go. See: Solution D

Solution D: Make Weight a Larger Factor in Physical Skills BINGO
-Why I like this approach: It factors into real life as well. A 300lb OL isn't going to be as quick or evasive as a 215lb HB, but at the same time, that 215lb HB isn't going to hit as hard as the 265lb DE. Yes, there are players who break this mold in real life, and that's something we can't always emulate. However, 100 Strength shouldn't be the same across the board. The simplest, and most logical way to do this is to make Speed, Agility, Jumping and Strength all hindered or increased by weight.

Maybe something like this?

100 Speed
Heavy-------------------------------------------Light
Slow-----------------Average-----------------Fast

100 Strength
Heavy-------------------------------------------Light
Powerful------------Strong---------------Average

100 Agility
Heavy------------------------------------------Light
Clumsy--------------Average--------------Quick


As you can see in almost every real life situations, the heavier players are generally slower and less "agile". Sure, linemen might have good footwork, but are they as quick with their movements as HBs? No. Why is that? It's not because of the position their in, but rather their size.

It has been said that weight plays a factor in things already, but it's obviously not enough. A 350lb C with 100 Strength should be MUCH stronger than a 180lb WR with 100 Strength, while the WR should be MUCH faster with 100 Speed than should the C.


Issues that Might Arise:
Originally posted by MVCoach91
Well
2 ways to fix weight for those in season 1 who did not know it would be an issue

1. Allow incremental weight training

2. Allow them 5 re rolls on weight
If they find one weight they like cool beans, but would force them to think about it before they just re roll
but limiting to 5 would keep them from going until they hit a certain weight

I think that #2 could be applicable to ALL players, no matter what season. Would weight then need to be a separate roll when creating a player?

Originally posted by SikoraP13
Originally posted by Staz

Originally posted by SikoraP13


As long as you implement a training system to alter weight in small increments, +1

This is a possibility. Maybe some off season type deal?

I was thinking something more along the lines of 10TPs (5 days) = +/- 3-5 lbs
--My Thoughts: I like this, but at the same time I don't like this idea. The reason I'm not fond of it, it due to gaining weight during the season. It's very tough to GAIN weight while actually in a competitive season. Weight loss is much less difficult, so that I could see, but weight GAIN is usually achieved during the offseason. If we could move this to then, and reduce the cost (or even add a different option), that would be ideal

Plus, I think that the more weight you gain, the lower the gains you'll make. Very similar to training as it is. If you're on the lighter end of the scale for your position, weight gains will be larger. However, if you're on the heavier side, weight gains will be slower. Eventually, gains will be so minimal (1lb?) that it's not even worth the effort. This would make sense and fit in with reality as well. When initially beginning to 'bulk up', people often find it a little easier. However, the longer they go, the slower the gains, to the point where they're doing whatever they can to 'squeeze' out the pounds.

Should go for weight loss as well. Heavier = Easier, Lighter = Harder. This could easily prevent people from training their RB up to 280lbs and putting him as a power back.
Problem:Originally posted by Deathblade
Late to the party...but this would make builds stupid.

O-Linemen with 100 blocking, 100 strength, 60 agility, and 50 speed after this change, would need to have 70 blocking, 70 strength, 90 agility, 70 speed just to be like they are now. It doesn't make builds more realistic, it forces builds to be less realistic.

Solution:Originally posted by Staz
Actually, why don't we make a curve? The higher the skill, the more effect weight has upon it, but the lower it is, the less weight effects it? That way, your 48 speed C isn't running around as if he's got 30 speed. The curve will make it as if he's got 45 speed, or something to that sorts.

Then, the higher you pump the skill, the more of an effect it has?

Here's how I see the formulas working out:

Formula for Speed
x =weight
(attribute-45)=A%
A%(x-180)x .167=y%
100%-y%=z%
attribute x z=final score

180lb WR @ 90 Speed
(90-45)=45%
45%(180-180)*.167=0%
100%-0%=100%
90*1 = 90
"True" Speed = 90

225lb LB @ 90 Speed
(90-45)=45%
45%(225-180)*.167=3.38175%
100%-3.38175%=96.61825%
90*.9661825=86.956425
"True" Speed = 86.9...

275lb DE @ 90 Speed
(90-45)=45%
45%(275-180)*.167=7.13925%
100%-7.13925%=92.86075%
90*.9286075=83.574675
"True" Speed = 83.5...

325lb C @ 90 Speed
(90-45)=45%
45%(325-180)*.167=10.89675%
100%-10.89675%=89.10325%
90*.8910325=80.192925
"True" Speed = 80.1...

(Smaller numbers obviously lead to less of a 'hit')


Formula for Agility
x =weight
(attribute-60)=A%
A%(x-180)x .167=y%
100%-y%=z%
attribute x z=final score

180lb WR @ 80 Agility
(80-60)=10%
10%(180-180)x .167=0%
100%-0%=100%
80 x 100% = 80
"True" Agility = 80

225lb LB @ 80 Agility
(80-60)=10%
20%(225-180)x .167=1.503%
100%-1.503%=98.497%
80 x 98.497% = 78.7976
"True" Agility = 78.7...

275lb DE @ 80 Agility
(80-60)=10%
20%(275-180)x .167=3.173%
100%-1.503%=96.827%
80 x 98.497% = 77.4616
"True" Agility = 77.4...

325lb C @ 80 Agility
(80-60)=10%
20%(325-180)x .167=4.843%
100%-4.843%=95.157%
80 x 95.157% = 76.1256
"True" Agility = 76.1...


Perhaps make it a slightly heavier curve? Could change the x-60 to x-55?


Formula for Jumping
x=weight
(x-240)x .167=y
100-(y)=z%
attribute x z%=A
A x 55 = B= jumping height
B+ height (in inches) = jumping radius

180lb 6'0" WR @ 70 Jumping
(180-240)x .167=-10.02
100-(-10.02)=110.02%
70 x 110.02%=77.014
77.014% x 55"=42.3577"
42.357" + 72" = 114.3577"

Vertical = 42.3577
Radius = 114.3577

240lb 6'0" LB @ 70 Jumping
(240-240)x .167=0
100-(0)=100
70x100=70
70%x 42"=38.5"
38.5" + 72" = 110.5

Vertical = 38.5
Radius = 110.5

310lb 6'0" C
(310-240)x .167=11.69
100-11.69=88.11%
70 x 88.11=61.677
61.677% x 42"=33.92235"
33.92235 + 72" = 105.92235

Vertical = 33.92235
Radius = 105.92235

That's with the assumption that the "average" vertical on the high end of the scale is 42" or 70 jumping. Many receivers are around 60 jumping, which is slightly less, obviously. This would most likely put more WRs in the high 30's, which is about right in comparison to real life. I think?

Formula for Strength
x=weight
-(x-300)x .167=y%
100%-y%=z%
attribute x z%= final score

180lb WR @ 100 Strength
-(180-300)*.167=20.04%
100%-20.04%=79.96%
100* 79.96%= 79.96
"True" Strength = 79.96

225lb RB @ 100 Strength
-(225-300)x .167=12.525%
100%-12.525%=87.475%
100*87.475%=87.475
"True" Strength = 87.475

275lb DE @ 100 Strength
-(275-300)x .167=4.175%
100%-4.175%=95.825%
100*95.825%=95.825
"True" Strength = 95.825

Now, the 325lb C will be over 100 strength with this, so maybe there is a "cannot be greater than your skills" restriction. That way, even if the equation comes out to 105.4 strength, if you've only got 100 in it, it's limited to 100?

Thanks to johnbarber for throwing these equations out there. If you've got a better way of doing things, let me know. I think these actually work out quite well.

Just remember that with every solution another problem arises. Would it be fair to those that created a player in Season 1 to all of a sudden make weight matter?

I would like to see something along these lines, but it is not going to happen.

Originally posted by kretchfoop
Just remember that with every solution another problem arises. Would it be fair to those that created a player in Season 1 to all of a sudden make weight matter?

I would like to see something along these lines, but it is not going to happen.

Yes, I think it would. Those guys will be declining in a season or two anyways. The build would effect the masses, and be a simply, REAL fix.

Originally posted by kretchfoop
Just remember that with every solution another problem arises. Would it be fair to those that created a player in Season 1 to all of a sudden make weight matter?

I would like to see something along these lines, but it is not going to happen.

I see your point, but something needs to be done.
This game is ever changing, and I would rather something be done to accommodate these season one players ( I have an idea or two but that is not the point) than to just keep going at the rate we are going.

This would hopefully mean less future nerfs and changes to the game. Would also gave more variety to builds. Do you plug all your SPs into strength or speed... well with your weight you should....

If this fix causes one minor fixable problem in order to stem off a number of major problems, do it

As long as you implement a training system to alter weight in small increments, +1

Originally posted by MVCoach91
Originally posted by kretchfoop

Just remember that with every solution another problem arises. Would it be fair to those that created a player in Season 1 to all of a sudden make weight matter?

I would like to see something along these lines, but it is not going to happen.

I see your point, but something needs to be done.
This game is ever changing, and I would rather something be done to accommodate these season one players ( I have an idea or two but that is not the point) than to just keep going at the rate we are going.

This would hopefully mean less future nerfs and changes to the game. Would also gave more variety to builds. Do you plug all your SPs into strength or speed... well with your weight you should....

If this fix causes one minor fixable problem in order to stem off a number of major problems, do it

If you have an idea to reduce the problems, by all means suggest it. The more issues we can handle up front, the better.

Personally, I feel it would put an end to needless nerfs. DEs will be more viable at both roles. Their weight will make them strong or fast, but not nearly as strong as a C, but not nearly as fast as a WR. The heavier DEs will most likely fit well into a 3-4 defense, and be stronger than their lighter counterparts.

Originally posted by SikoraP13
As long as you implement a training system to alter weight in small increments, +1

This is a possibility. Maybe some off season type deal?

Originally posted by Staz
Originally posted by SikoraP13

As long as you implement a training system to alter weight in small increments, +1

This is a possibility. Maybe some off season type deal?

I was thinking something more along the lines of 10TPs (5 days) = +/- 3-5 lbs

Well
2 ways to fix weight for those in season 1 who did not know it would be an issue

1. Allow incremental weight training

2. Allow them 5 re rolls on weight
If they find one weight they like cool beans, but would force them to think about it before they just re roll
but limiting to 5 would keep them from going until they hit a certain weight

Has potential. What about height?

Originally posted by SikoraP13
Originally posted by Staz

Originally posted by SikoraP13


As long as you implement a training system to alter weight in small increments, +1

This is a possibility. Maybe some off season type deal?

I was thinking something more along the lines of 10TPs (5 days) = +/- 3-5 lbs

I think that would be a little drastic. 10TP would mean about 4 times a season. You could GAIN 12-20lbs? Over the course of a season, you generally lose a pound or two, so that wouldn't really be all to realistic. Most of the weight gain is in the offseason, and I think about 10lbs should be a GOOD gain?


MVCoach91 - Those two ideas are perfect. The weight re-roll could apply to EVERYBODY, actually.

All weight will do is make the strong, stronger, and the fast, faster, and make any strange player builds in effective.

I suggested it long ago but have presets for positions

you want speed to count differently for different positions

so top speed for hb's =100
top speed for dt's=80

how you break it down is this.
cut it in half- that's your starting stat. then 0-100 is your % of the other half.

so a hb with 68 speed would break down like this
50+(68%x50)=84

a hb with 100 speed would break down like this
50+(100%x50)=100

and a dt with 68 speed would break down like this
40+(68%x40)=67.2

a dt with 100 speed would break down like this
40+(100%x40)=80

so everyone would still build there stats from 0-100 but it would be weighted more. If you wanted weight to play an additional factor it would look like this

for a hb
50 +/-weight bonus+(x%x50)=?


and for people that like to go over 100

50+(110%x50)=105

Bort's said before height and weight have an effect on attributes (albeit a small effect) there was a great discussion during season 6 on whether to make height andn weight a bigger deal.. i can't remember the consensus, but there was a great deal of disagreement. I think it's bullshit to do it now any large scale changes like this would have to be done as the game is coming out of beta, if it ever comes out of beta.

i agree...great idea MVCoach... in response, Staz, i doubt many people will give up a whole season's training to gain/lose 12-20 lbs, maybe put a limit on it at 2x a season or something. I think it has to be drastic though so people don't have their weight fluctuating like mad. Maybe make it cost like $1000 x Level x 3lbs gained/lost...dunno, just some ideas...