DMFA's Character Depth Suggestions
My favorite part of RPGs is building characters. This particular game reminds me of when I was building myself into a football player from 7th grade through my 5th year of college. That's something a lot of us can relate to since we've been football players, but none of us have been mages or paladins.
The point of these suggestions is to allow our players to become deeper and more diverse within the current parameters of the GLB system and without a mass re-roll.
There are three areas which I feel can be augmented in order to diversify and deepen player builds:
- Bi-modal attributes, e.g. leg strength vs. arm strength, top speed vs. acceleration
- Position-specific and size-dependent soft caps, e.g. 60 speed for WRs but 40 for Gs
- Customizable special ability sets, e.g. replacing the Power Back tree for Possession Receiver tree or an entire custom tree
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Bi-Modal Attributes
Reference: Me, http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=1285394
Each attribute/skill is bi-modally split between two disciplines with a slider bar denoting which is the favored one, e.g. you could set your player to 80/20 arm vs. leg strength or 30/70 power vs. finesse tackling. One left in the middle (at 50/50 or 1:1) would have no effect on the current attribute; a "safe" way to avoid messing with a currently existing build.
List of Potential Disciplines
Strength: Arm vs. Leg -or- Upper vs. Lower
Speed: Acceleration vs. Top Speed
Agility: Balance vs. Evasion
Jumping: Vertical vs. Horizontal
Stamina: Endurance vs. Injury -or- Play-by-play vs. Game-long
Vision: Individual vs. Field -or- Knowledge vs. Reaction
Confidence: Self vs. Team
Blocking: Finesse vs. Power -or- Run vs. Pass
Tackling: Finesse vs. Power -or- Wrap-up vs. Dive
Throwing: Accuracy vs. Power
Catching: Possession vs. Yards-after-catch
Carrying: Secure vs. Quick (?)
Kicking: FGs vs. Kickoffs -or- Accuracy vs. Power
Punting: Accuracy vs. Power
The balance is set at player creation and may only be modified at level-up at a rate of 5-10% per level, depending on the ratio.
This is aimed at changing the fact that QBs and Ks are as strong as linemen and individual attributes are not as broad-reaching.
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Position-Specific and Size-Dependent Soft Caps
Reference: Montclaire, http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=1285408
The soft caps for specific attributes for different positions are shifted to a more realistic level. Using speed as an example, the first soft cap could be increased to 60 for WR, HB, CB, and FS; increased to 55 for LB and SS; remain the same for QB, FB, TE, and DE; and be decreased to 40 for C, G, OT, DT, P, and K. Similar modifications extend to subsequent soft-caps.
Additionally, size ought factor into each soft cap. I imagine that the randomly-generated height and weight is normally distributed; therefore, soft cap modification could come based on each value's distance from the mean. For example, if for the weight of all HBs, μ (mean) = 200 and σ (std.dev) = 10, 68.2% of all players would fall between 190 and 210 and would receive no change to soft caps. HBs from μ+1σ to μ+2σ (210-220 lb) would receive +3 to size-dependent attribute soft-caps (strength, tackling, blocking) and -3 to speed-dependent soft caps (speed, agility, stamina). Players from μ-1σ to μ-2σ (180-190 lb) would receive the opposite. (To understand normal distribution, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_Distribution#Standard_deviation_and_confidence_intervals )
This is aimed at still allowing large players to have astronomical speed and small players to have incredible strength, but would make it more difficult and at the expense of other attributes and skills. Less HBs would have the strength of offensive lineman, and less DEs would have the speed of Olympic sprinters.
This change would have to keep from reducing the current attributes of players beyond the soft caps; e.g. a DT at 45 speed would not have his speed reduced due to a change in SP cost, but would have to spend 2 SPs/point from the time of implementation forward.
The reason I prefer a change in soft-caps as opposed to an outright penalty/bonus (as per Bort's weight class idea) is because large athletes still can attain speed. It should be more difficult for them to reach that barrier, but once they do, they shouldn't be penalized. I also prefer displayed attributes to be the final product and not still be subject to a modifier, e.g. if I see two players with 68 speed and one is 220 pounds and the other is 280 pounds, I shouldn't have to calculate in my head to what each would equate; it should be visible.
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Customizable Special Ability Sets
Reference: Many threads, esp. TheInfinity, http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=1285115
The ability to alter which special abilities a player would have would multiply player diversity manifold. A current obstacle to this is the current Tree system where one must augment an SA in order to be able to place any SPs in the next SA in the tree.
One means to accomplish this would be to keep the trees intact, yet allow a player at time of creation to remove one of the innate SA trees for that position for another. A popular instance would include an HB ditching the Power Back tree in favor of the WR's Possession Receiver tree or an LB ditching the Pass Coverage tree in favor of the DE's Pass Rushing tree. This could come at the creation cost of the position whose SA tree you seek with which to replace yours; e.g. to create a HB with a Elusive Back and Possession Receiver would cost 600 FP (300 for HB creation, 300 for a WR's tree to replace an HB's). This could only occur at creation and would not necessitate a change to the current SA allocation system.
Another means would be to replace current SAs individually with desired SAs; for example, exchange "Dive 4 Yds" with "Sticky Hands" or "Defense General" with "Tunnel Vision." This could occur at the cost of 100 FP for "normal" skills and 200 FP for "premium" skills, e.g. "Pancake" and "1-Handed Catch." These substituted skills would have to come at an increased cost (+1 or double) as compared to the innate SAs. This does pose an affront the the current tree system which would have to be modified to accommodate "alien" SAs or abolished altogether and exist as sets instead of trees.
Another minor adjunct would be to change the order of the non-premium SAs at time of creation for a FP cost (100 FP?).
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
The implication of these ideas at the time of player creation is obvious. However, adjustments would have to be made upon applying them to currently-existing players. These changes would take place at time of implementation, be un-editable when set, and have a deadline of Day 0.
Bi-modal attributes: In a fashion similar to creation. If they are not edited by Day 0, all are set to 50/50 (thereby having no effect).
Soft-cap adjustment: No retroactive penalty for those already beyond it.
SA customization: Trees which are swapped for one another could either retain the values from the old tree -or- have the SPs recycled from them which could only be applied to the new tree. SA-for-SA substitutions provide a different quandary and would probably have the old SA's value retained for the new SA.
The main idea of these three suggestions is, as stated above, to vastly augment character depth and diversity while operating within the current parameters of the GLB system and avoiding a general re-roll. I am much more indifferent to specifics (e.g. skill disciplines, exact change in soft-caps or exact FP costs of SA replacements) than I am to the concept of what I am proposing; therefore, please limit your discourse as such.
Thanks x 10^6!
- DMFA
Originally posted by Bort
Hm, interesting ideas in here. I'm not sure if I like the bi-modal idea or not, tbh, at the moment. I would have to think on it some.
I don't think changing soft caps per position is feasable, though. I much prefer just having per-position modifiers on the actual skills as far as how they are used in formulas. Same diff in the end, really, and keeps things easy to understand as far as building goes.
My favorite part of RPGs is building characters. This particular game reminds me of when I was building myself into a football player from 7th grade through my 5th year of college. That's something a lot of us can relate to since we've been football players, but none of us have been mages or paladins.
The point of these suggestions is to allow our players to become deeper and more diverse within the current parameters of the GLB system and without a mass re-roll.
There are three areas which I feel can be augmented in order to diversify and deepen player builds:
- Bi-modal attributes, e.g. leg strength vs. arm strength, top speed vs. acceleration
- Position-specific and size-dependent soft caps, e.g. 60 speed for WRs but 40 for Gs
- Customizable special ability sets, e.g. replacing the Power Back tree for Possession Receiver tree or an entire custom tree
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Bi-Modal Attributes
Reference: Me, http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=1285394
Each attribute/skill is bi-modally split between two disciplines with a slider bar denoting which is the favored one, e.g. you could set your player to 80/20 arm vs. leg strength or 30/70 power vs. finesse tackling. One left in the middle (at 50/50 or 1:1) would have no effect on the current attribute; a "safe" way to avoid messing with a currently existing build.
List of Potential Disciplines
Strength: Arm vs. Leg -or- Upper vs. Lower
Speed: Acceleration vs. Top Speed
Agility: Balance vs. Evasion
Jumping: Vertical vs. Horizontal
Stamina: Endurance vs. Injury -or- Play-by-play vs. Game-long
Vision: Individual vs. Field -or- Knowledge vs. Reaction
Confidence: Self vs. Team
Blocking: Finesse vs. Power -or- Run vs. Pass
Tackling: Finesse vs. Power -or- Wrap-up vs. Dive
Throwing: Accuracy vs. Power
Catching: Possession vs. Yards-after-catch
Carrying: Secure vs. Quick (?)
Kicking: FGs vs. Kickoffs -or- Accuracy vs. Power
Punting: Accuracy vs. Power
The balance is set at player creation and may only be modified at level-up at a rate of 5-10% per level, depending on the ratio.
This is aimed at changing the fact that QBs and Ks are as strong as linemen and individual attributes are not as broad-reaching.
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Position-Specific and Size-Dependent Soft Caps
Reference: Montclaire, http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=1285408
The soft caps for specific attributes for different positions are shifted to a more realistic level. Using speed as an example, the first soft cap could be increased to 60 for WR, HB, CB, and FS; increased to 55 for LB and SS; remain the same for QB, FB, TE, and DE; and be decreased to 40 for C, G, OT, DT, P, and K. Similar modifications extend to subsequent soft-caps.
Additionally, size ought factor into each soft cap. I imagine that the randomly-generated height and weight is normally distributed; therefore, soft cap modification could come based on each value's distance from the mean. For example, if for the weight of all HBs, μ (mean) = 200 and σ (std.dev) = 10, 68.2% of all players would fall between 190 and 210 and would receive no change to soft caps. HBs from μ+1σ to μ+2σ (210-220 lb) would receive +3 to size-dependent attribute soft-caps (strength, tackling, blocking) and -3 to speed-dependent soft caps (speed, agility, stamina). Players from μ-1σ to μ-2σ (180-190 lb) would receive the opposite. (To understand normal distribution, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_Distribution#Standard_deviation_and_confidence_intervals )
This is aimed at still allowing large players to have astronomical speed and small players to have incredible strength, but would make it more difficult and at the expense of other attributes and skills. Less HBs would have the strength of offensive lineman, and less DEs would have the speed of Olympic sprinters.
This change would have to keep from reducing the current attributes of players beyond the soft caps; e.g. a DT at 45 speed would not have his speed reduced due to a change in SP cost, but would have to spend 2 SPs/point from the time of implementation forward.
The reason I prefer a change in soft-caps as opposed to an outright penalty/bonus (as per Bort's weight class idea) is because large athletes still can attain speed. It should be more difficult for them to reach that barrier, but once they do, they shouldn't be penalized. I also prefer displayed attributes to be the final product and not still be subject to a modifier, e.g. if I see two players with 68 speed and one is 220 pounds and the other is 280 pounds, I shouldn't have to calculate in my head to what each would equate; it should be visible.
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Customizable Special Ability Sets
Reference: Many threads, esp. TheInfinity, http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=1285115
The ability to alter which special abilities a player would have would multiply player diversity manifold. A current obstacle to this is the current Tree system where one must augment an SA in order to be able to place any SPs in the next SA in the tree.
One means to accomplish this would be to keep the trees intact, yet allow a player at time of creation to remove one of the innate SA trees for that position for another. A popular instance would include an HB ditching the Power Back tree in favor of the WR's Possession Receiver tree or an LB ditching the Pass Coverage tree in favor of the DE's Pass Rushing tree. This could come at the creation cost of the position whose SA tree you seek with which to replace yours; e.g. to create a HB with a Elusive Back and Possession Receiver would cost 600 FP (300 for HB creation, 300 for a WR's tree to replace an HB's). This could only occur at creation and would not necessitate a change to the current SA allocation system.
Another means would be to replace current SAs individually with desired SAs; for example, exchange "Dive 4 Yds" with "Sticky Hands" or "Defense General" with "Tunnel Vision." This could occur at the cost of 100 FP for "normal" skills and 200 FP for "premium" skills, e.g. "Pancake" and "1-Handed Catch." These substituted skills would have to come at an increased cost (+1 or double) as compared to the innate SAs. This does pose an affront the the current tree system which would have to be modified to accommodate "alien" SAs or abolished altogether and exist as sets instead of trees.
Another minor adjunct would be to change the order of the non-premium SAs at time of creation for a FP cost (100 FP?).
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
The implication of these ideas at the time of player creation is obvious. However, adjustments would have to be made upon applying them to currently-existing players. These changes would take place at time of implementation, be un-editable when set, and have a deadline of Day 0.
Bi-modal attributes: In a fashion similar to creation. If they are not edited by Day 0, all are set to 50/50 (thereby having no effect).
Soft-cap adjustment: No retroactive penalty for those already beyond it.
SA customization: Trees which are swapped for one another could either retain the values from the old tree -or- have the SPs recycled from them which could only be applied to the new tree. SA-for-SA substitutions provide a different quandary and would probably have the old SA's value retained for the new SA.
The main idea of these three suggestions is, as stated above, to vastly augment character depth and diversity while operating within the current parameters of the GLB system and avoiding a general re-roll. I am much more indifferent to specifics (e.g. skill disciplines, exact change in soft-caps or exact FP costs of SA replacements) than I am to the concept of what I am proposing; therefore, please limit your discourse as such.
Thanks x 10^6!
- DMFA
Originally posted by Bort
Hm, interesting ideas in here. I'm not sure if I like the bi-modal idea or not, tbh, at the moment. I would have to think on it some.
I don't think changing soft caps per position is feasable, though. I much prefer just having per-position modifiers on the actual skills as far as how they are used in formulas. Same diff in the end, really, and keeps things easy to understand as far as building goes.
Last edited Apr 6, 2009 13:12:13
