Warrior General Games

Ok, here goes. Another thread sparked this idea in my head. It can be found here:

http://goallineblitz.com/game/forum_thread.pl?thread_id=1171776&page=1

But forgetting that for a moment, because they only deviate towards this on the second page, and it actually has absolutely nothing to do with this idea, we'll move right along...

Firstly, I like the way team chemistry is set up right now - the system works, and it's not difficult to recover if you have to take a chemistry hit by trading in a needed player into the season, or letting someone go into the season. I don't think THAT should change at all. This is something separate from the team chemistry, and could work in conjunction WITH team chemistry, as I'll attempt to explain in this thread.

I've had this idea before, a while back, but maybe only mentioned it in another thread with the same general idea of chemistry going on within it...and if you're still reading and wondering why I'm not to my point yet, it's very simple - only people who've read this far are worth my time. The rest of the stop and go forum hoppers have left by now, so let's get to the point

My idea is very simple, and goes along with reality in the essence of the game itself, on a player-by-player aspect.

Quarterback and Receiver Chemistry: This is vital to any team's success in a passing game, as any QB Coach will tell you. The longer a QB and his receivers (including WR and TE) play together, the more they work well together, and eventually, they can almost read eachother's minds.

Offensive Linemen Chemistry: It's gonna take a while for that rookie on the team or that new guy you just got in trade to work with the current Linemen well. The longer the Linemen have played together on the same team, the better they work together to 'know' where the other one is going to go in the case of a massive Blitz, so he can ficus on another gap and stop another Blitzer, so no two Linemen try to stop the same guy eventually. A seasoned O Line that's been together a while are going to be able to almost read eachother's minds eventually.

Backfield Chemistry: A good HB still needs that good lead block to bust one open on a running play. Having a FB who knows his HB's style, and knows where his HB prefers to run in different situations is going to bust those big gains off more often. HBs and FBs who've played together a while are going to be able to almost read eachother's minds, and communicate to one another by sight alone eventually.

Defensive Line Chemistry: A solid D Line is essential for winning games, as any Superbowl caliber Coach will tell you. That new rookie or guy you just got in trade isn't going to mesh with the seasoned vets of your team right away. It takes time to 'know' where your teammates on that line are going to be, and how they're going to react. The HB is coming right at you - there's no Blitz coming. Do you have help to your right, your left, or neither one? If you know you've got a solid DT to your right, you might try to push the HB in to your right, so if he gets away from you, he'll run into that big boy inside. A new guy's not gonna know that, until he plays a bit on the team.

Linebacker Chemistry: Do your fellow Linebackers like to Blitz, or are they more comfortable stepping back into coverage? Is the man standing beside you better at stopping the run, or is he a weakling, used primarily for covering TEs? Knowing the answer to these important questions as a LB takes time, you must play alongside your teammates to understand them better in a game situation. The longer a group of LBs play together, the better they know where to try and corral the ball carrier in a moment of trouble.

Cornerback and Safety Chemistry: As a CB, it's good to know that you've got someone backing you up in case you get juked on a route, or pump faked out of your shoes. Can you play a little sporadic, and try for that pick if you see the QB's arm move, or do you not want to risk it, because the FS might not be there in case you're wrong? As a Safety, can you count on that CB in front of you to not get burned, so you can focus on that TE that's coming your way, or do you need to trust the LBs to pick him up and stay behind the CB? The answers to these questions only come in time, knowing the guys you play with as if they were an extension of your own being.

Special Teams Chemistry; Return Team/Coverage Team: Will your blockers pick up that defender bearing down on you in time, or are you gonna have to make this happen on your own as a return specialist? Are you gonna have better luck finding a breakaway hole on the outside or inside with the group of blockers you've got ahead of you? Knowing the answer to these questions can make or break a good return. Alternatively, as a Coverage player on a Kickoff or Punt, do you want to try and corral the Returner to the inside, or let him drift out? Knowing who you've got with you, and where - what their skills are and their tendencies - makes all the difference in the world when trying to get a Returner to change direction even if you can't get to him yourself. Special Teams can win or lose ball games, and the guys working together on both ends of this spectrum is essential for having it help to WIN.

Team and Player Chemistry Working Together:

If Overall team chemistry is high, it will bolster the new guy's ability to understand his new teammates, and take LESS TIME for that positional group's chemistry to rise now that he's here, trying to learn their habits and skills.

Same goes for Offensive and Defensive team chemistry. If it's high, the new guy coming in won't hurt as bad, and it'll take less time for him to pick up pace with the others, and be considered one of the 'family' sooner. The positional player chemistry will rise somewhat faster in this regard.

If these team chemistry marks are low, however, it will have a negative effect on player chemistry, by making it harder for players to learn one another, and forcing them to spend MORE time together on the field before their positional player chemistry is high enough to make a difference.

One thing I'd like to clarify for a minute is that having low Positional Chemistry isn't going to have an adverse effect on your team performing well, that's what Team Chemistry does already. Only when the Positional Chemistry rises to a certain point and beyond will it begin to take effect, making your players work better together, and increase their ability to perform as a cohesive unit.

Player "Bonding Session": Thanks to kharton for this idea addition! Maybe to help low chemistry team, or new owners, an option to have team bonding sessions. A one time money amount with different scales to how much bonding will effect the chemistry. IE:

Bowling night = all players gain +1
Day at the races = + 2
Game of Golf = +3

etc

or if not the team owner, then allow an agent to pay a one time bonding session for any new players to a team. Must be done in first 2/3 games to take effect.

In conclusion, if you've read ALL of this, thanks a lot. I didn't expect you to, and I actually really do appreciate it. I hope this gets some attention, because it could be just another way to make this feel more 'real' at times.

I also believe this will further the desire to actually stick with a team once you're there, because the longer you're there, the better you're gonna perform with the other guys around you, and the better the team will perform as a whole.

me and JD talked about something similar to this in another thread (can't remember which)

but a definite +1 to the idea

Plus some from me.

I was talking about this the other night, hopefully this is in the plans. It only makes sense.

Chemistry is more of a unit and less of a team thing.

+ 1

That might be where I remember this from, but I don't think it was like...a defined idea, maybe just a thought that passed in a thread in the middle somewhere. Not trying to stop on toes, I realize everyone may have had this idea at SOME point, but I personally haven't seen it broken down this way yet, and defined like this...so I thought I'd post it

Any additional ideas or comments, or tweaks are more than welcome, they're encouraged.

tbh idc who posts something, if this gets implemented then I'll be stoked.

if I can think of anything more to add I will, but as of now you seem to know the business..

the LB idea is great. truthfully you dont see one good LB on a team. if one LB sucks they all suck. if oyu have a bad MLb but two good OLB they play bad because they worry about the MLB.

in R/L (yes i know off topic ) i play MLB. me and my rolb and lolb are all good players and work well together, so yo use us helping each other at our weak points. but sometimes when you watch a non pro game ( high school,rep,house league football) you see one linebacker who just runs around and the other two trying to help and then all 3 are out of position. so i think that you should have to have 3 good linebackers to even have a chance at a good defense.

if we're trying to make this realistic than that is pretty dam realistic. dont believe me? watch the steelers. James Farrior, a great LB but doesn't always play his best because the other LB's aren't to great.

You make a good point, but I think I included that in the original idea...

Originally posted by turnerhero
Linebacker Chemistry: Do your fellow Linebackers like to Blitz, or are they more comfortable stepping back into coverage? Is the man standing beside you better at stopping the run, or is he a weakling, used primarily for covering TEs? Knowing the answer to these important questions as a LB takes time, you must play alongside your teammates to understand them better in a game situation. The longer a group of LBs play together, the better they know where to try and corral the ball carrier in a moment of trouble.

If you read that, basically I say the same thing, just in a different way than you did. I think you broke it down into something more understandable than I did I thank you for that. Basically, my concept here is the same. Is the guy beside you gonna get smoked if a Power Back comes around? If so, you better be RIGHT THERE to get that tackle if he misses it - that might leave the TE open while you wait to see if it's a run play, but it's a risk you may be willing to take.

This idea basically...for all intents and purposes...means that based on his chemistry rating for those smaller groups of players and being within that group, will have an AI all his own, and base decisions around that, no matter what the playcall is. Now, that's not what I want, really, for a player to ignore the play called by the Coordinator. Not at all! In fact, I want them to go by that play, but if the play calls for the LB to cover the TE and it's a run play, heading for his weakling buddy who's been missing tackles lately, he KNOWS he needs to bust his ass over there, get behind his teammate, and get ready to tackle after a miss if he misses again.

I like this idea, but I'm concerned about what happens to those unlucky teams that fall into the cycle of bad chemistry? The Owner/GM's were a bit lazy their first season and didn't get a full roster right away, so they end up gathering players over time. They can't be too picky and end up getting several guys who just don't care and go inactive for long stretches. So the team has to keep brining in new players and their chemistry gets really low.

With your addition, how does a team like this recover? With team chemistry low, it's going to take longer to increase with new players, and not only is team chemistry low, but positional chemistry is low, so the team is going to play badly for quite a while. I don't understand exactly how chemistry affects players now, whether it's a penalty against their stats, or possibly causes them to not do what the play calls for sometimes, but I can only assume a new QB on a team like this having to overcome bad offensive chemistry, bad overall chemistry and bad QB/WR chemistry is going to be a severe handicap, even if he has the best build in the league he just joined.

Right now, team chemistry increases faster the lower it is, but you're suggesting positional chemistry should increase slower the lower it is, effectively burying these teams who haven't been able to acquire long-termers. Positional chemsitry should work like the other chemistry types do... increasing faster when it's low and slower when it's high.

Originally posted by turnerhero
You make a good point, but I think I included that in the original idea...

Originally posted by turnerhero

Linebacker Chemistry: Do your fellow Linebackers like to Blitz, or are they more comfortable stepping back into coverage? Is the man standing beside you better at stopping the run, or is he a weakling, used primarily for covering TEs? Knowing the answer to these important questions as a LB takes time, you must play alongside your teammates to understand them better in a game situation. The longer a group of LBs play together, the better they know where to try and corral the ball carrier in a moment of trouble.

If you read that, basically I say the same thing, just in a different way than you did. I think you broke it down into something more understandable than I did I thank you for that. Basically, my concept here is the same. Is the guy beside you gonna get smoked if a Power Back comes around? If so, you better be RIGHT THERE to get that tackle if he misses it - that might leave the TE open while you wait to see if it's a run play, but it's a risk you may be willing to take.

This idea basically...for all intents and purposes...means that based on his chemistry rating for those smaller groups of players and being within that group, will have an AI all his own, and base decisions around that, no matter what the playcall is. Now, that's not what I want, really, for a player to ignore the play called by the Coordinator. Not at all! In fact, I want them to go by that play, but if the play calls for the LB to cover the TE and it's a run play, heading for his weakling buddy who's been missing tackles lately, he KNOWS he needs to bust his ass over there, get behind his teammate, and get ready to tackle after a miss if he misses again.

i know i said the same thing as u stated, i just wanted to expand on it. i found it a little confusing to read so i thought id add my own little touch.

Originally posted by Ratphlegm
I like this idea, but I'm concerned about what happens to those unlucky teams that fall into the cycle of bad chemistry? The Owner/GM's were a bit lazy their first season and didn't get a full roster right away, so they end up gathering players over time. They can't be too picky and end up getting several guys who just don't care and go inactive for long stretches. So the team has to keep brining in new players and their chemistry gets really low.

With your addition, how does a team like this recover? With team chemistry low, it's going to take longer to increase with new players, and not only is team chemistry low, but positional chemistry is low, so the team is going to play badly for quite a while. I don't understand exactly how chemistry affects players now, whether it's a penalty against their stats, or possibly causes them to not do what the play calls for sometimes, but I can only assume a new QB on a team like this having to overcome bad offensive chemistry, bad overall chemistry and bad QB/WR chemistry is going to be a severe handicap, even if he has the best build in the league he just joined.

Right now, team chemistry increases faster the lower it is, but you're suggesting positional chemistry should increase slower the lower it is, effectively burying these teams who haven't been able to acquire long-termers. Positional chemsitry should work like the other chemistry types do... increasing faster when it's low and slower when it's high.

If player personalities ever get added I would assume that Chem rises/falls based on them. Example - The Superstar's will make the bars rise slower, while the Team Player will make it rise faster

EDIT: Also maybe the Superstar takes less away if they leave (finally rid of that jackass), Team Player would take away more (Dude he left, I liked him)

+1

Wow turner, great stuff. Chemistry's would really help add identities to teams.

Originally posted by Ratphlegm
I like this idea, but I'm concerned about what happens to those unlucky teams that fall into the cycle of bad chemistry? The Owner/GM's were a bit lazy their first season and didn't get a full roster right away, so they end up gathering players over time. They can't be too picky and end up getting several guys who just don't care and go inactive for long stretches. So the team has to keep brining in new players and their chemistry gets really low.

With your addition, how does a team like this recover? With team chemistry low, it's going to take longer to increase with new players, and not only is team chemistry low, but positional chemistry is low, so the team is going to play badly for quite a while. I don't understand exactly how chemistry affects players now, whether it's a penalty against their stats, or possibly causes them to not do what the play calls for sometimes, but I can only assume a new QB on a team like this having to overcome bad offensive chemistry, bad overall chemistry and bad QB/WR chemistry is going to be a severe handicap, even if he has the best build in the league he just joined.

Right now, team chemistry increases faster the lower it is, but you're suggesting positional chemistry should increase slower the lower it is, effectively burying these teams who haven't been able to acquire long-termers. Positional chemsitry should work like the other chemistry types do... increasing faster when it's low and slower when it's high.

That could be an option, but I was trying to go for a different idea, just bear with me, because I didn't mention this in my original post, but I DID mean for this to be implied...

Basically, positional chemistry would start at like, say 0 all the way around. That wouldn't affect the players at all, just make them act like normal - the way they do now - like robots programmed to do their jobs to the best of their own ability, not taking into consideration anything around them as far as their teammates.

As positional chemistry rises, they start to become more aware of their teammates' abilities in tandem with their own, increasing the possibility that they'll try to cover for a teammate who they perceive as someone about to get burned, or simply know that the teammate will be ok by himself, because he knows that teammate can handle his specific job for that play alone.

It would increase working together as it rises, but having it be low won't really make them play WORSE, as team chemistry does, it would simply have no added effects...