Warrior General Games

personally I wish more people would join the "YAY! SA's are being evaluated and tweaked" - instead of sticking in the "why has it taken so long" camp.


this is a good thing for the game - a good thing for player building - a good thing for build diversity -

complaining about it taking 14 seasons is accomplishing exactly nothing

Originally posted by TxSteve
personally I wish more people would join the "YAY! SA's are being evaluated and tweaked" - instead of sticking in the "why has it taken so long" camp.


this is a good thing for the game - a good thing for player building - a good thing for build diversity -

complaining about it taking 14 seasons is accomplishing exactly nothing

I think you're missing the point. Bort spent 14 seasons making them not work.

when does the game get fixed so that we dont have to go thru this stupid shit every season?


I know for some of you thats half the fun, but Id just like to have one dot complete its year and a half long lifespan free from sim alterations.

Originally posted by David Stern
I just added up the amount of sp's you have placed into sa's on your players.

0

IMGUDATMATH

Except...I have been one of the main supporters of increasing the strength of SA's.

It really is amazing at how ignorant some people are...

Here's an example of why +% gear is "overpowered". I will also illustrate why it's not clearly the best choice as a 2nd and/or 3rd AEQ.

Big Boy: Power HB - 250lbs, 105 strength, 75 carrying, +60% break tackle chance worth of AEQ and 15 bruiser.

Vs.

Speed kills LB: Under-sized and speedy LB - 215lbs, 50 strength, 50 tackling, +0% make tackle chance AEQ and no tackle making VAs.

Run stuffing LB: Powerful and sure tackling LB - 240lbs, 80 strength, 75 tackling, +46% make tackle chance AEQ and 15 DvG.

Run stuffing LB (without AEQ/VAs): Decent tackling LB - Powerful and good tackling LB - 240lbs, 80 strength, 75 tackling, +0% make tackle chance AEQ and no tackle making VAs.

Example #1: Let's say Big Boy has a 20% base chance to break the tackle attempt of Speed kills LB, due to the differences in attributes. This means that the 105% break tackle chance bonuses from AEQ/VAs is actually worth a 21% increased chance to break said tackle attempt.

Example #2: Let's say Big Boy has a 10% base chance to break the tackle attempt of Run stuffing LB, due to the differences in attributes. This means that the 14% break tackle chance bonuses from AEQ/VAs (minus the LB's AEQ/VAs) is actually worth a 1.4% increased chance to break said tackle attempt.

Example #3: Let's say Big Boy has a 10% base chance to break the tackle attempt of Run stuffing LB (without AEQ/VAs), due to the differences in attributes. This means that the 105% break tackle chance bonuses from AEQ/VAs is actually worth a 10.5% increased chance to break said tackle attempt.

Notice the trend? +% bonuses are only "overpowered" when there's a huge discrepancy in attributes. Balance attributes and you fix +% bonuses. You balance attributes by making people have to sacrifice equally important aspects of play to gain an advantage in other areas. By simply nerfing +% bonuses, you hurt player development choices... as you basically take away the benefits of making a specialized player and people will feel (justified I might add) that it's ineffective to build that way. I know that once the build trends change and people start building counter builds, +% bonuses will be almost worthless. Forcing our hand in so-called choices/options and thus hurting player diversity. Is +11.5% (2nd piece of +% AEQ) to a 10% base chance (+1.15% increased chance) really worth more than +5 to an SA? How about +5.75% (3rd piece of +% AEQ) to a 10% base chance (+0.575% increased chance)?

and now there is an analysis going on that will hopefully lead to them all working (believe me - I've been as vocally frustrated about SA's as anyone these last 14 seasons).

i just prefer to be happy that it's being done - as opposed to being bitter that it wasn't done sooner.

Originally posted by Warlock
It really is amazing at how ignorant some people are...

Here's an example of why +% gear is "overpowered". I will also illustrate why it's not clearly the best choice as a 2nd and/or 3rd AEQ.

Big Boy: Power HB - 250lbs, 105 strength, 75 carrying, +60% break tackle chance worth of AEQ and 15 bruiser.

Vs.

Speed kills LB: Under-sized and speedy LB - 215lbs, 50 strength, 50 tackling, +0% make tackle chance AEQ and no tackle making VAs.

Run stuffing LB: Powerful and sure tackling LB - 240lbs, 80 strength, 75 tackling, +46% make tackle chance AEQ and 15 DvG.

Run stuffing LB (without AEQ/VAs): Decent tackling LB - Powerful and good tackling LB - 240lbs, 80 strength, 75 tackling, +0% make tackle chance AEQ and no tackle making VAs.

Example #1: Let's say Big Boy has a 20% base chance to break the tackle attempt of Speed kills LB, due to the differences in attributes. This means that the 105% break tackle chance bonuses from AEQ/VAs is actually worth a 21% increased chance to break said tackle attempt.

Example #2: Let's say Big Boy has a 10% base chance to break the tackle attempt of Run stuffing LB, due to the differences in attributes. This means that the 14% break tackle chance bonuses from AEQ/VAs (minus the LB's AEQ/VAs) is actually worth a 1.4% increased chance to break said tackle attempt.

Example #3: Let's say Big Boy has a 10% base chance to break the tackle attempt of Run stuffing LB (without AEQ/VAs), due to the differences in attributes. This means that the 105% break tackle chance bonuses from AEQ/VAs is actually worth a 10.5% increased chance to break said tackle attempt.

Notice the trend? +% bonuses are only "overpowered" when there's a huge discrepancy in attributes. Balance attributes and you fix +% bonuses. You balance attributes by making people have to sacrifice equally important aspects of play to gain an advantage in other areas. By simply nerfing +% bonuses, you hurt player development choices... as you basically take away the benefits of making a specialized player and people will feel (justified I might add) that it's ineffective to build that way. I know that once the build trends change and people start building counter builds, +% bonuses will be almost worthless. Forcing our hand in so-called choices/options and thus hurting player diversity. Is +11.5% (2nd piece of +% AEQ) to a 10% base chance (+1.15% increased chance) really worth more than +5 to an SA? How about +5.75% (3rd piece of +% AEQ) to a 10% base chance (+0.575% increased chance)?

I understood the change perfectly until I read this post.

I mean, besides the obvious make believe numbers and percentages you are throwing out, the comparisons are completely mindboggling.

Originally posted by Warlock
It really is amazing at how ignorant some people are...



i went ahead and deleted all your garbage.

look LBs cover 150 speed scat backs out of the backfield. they ALSO have to tackle triple stacked HBs with 120 strength with Bruiser, short yardage monster and 14 in power thru. oh and they don't even get a shot at the HB until they have shoved off a 130 strength FB with hold block % and downfield maxed.

they also cover TEs built like track stars.

are you following?

Originally posted by Deathblade
Except...I have been one of the main supporters of increasing the strength of SA's.

Yep me too. Increase them, and I will get them too.
Doesn't change the fact you have 0 currently because they haven't worked. Originally posted by TxSteve
and now there is an analysis going on that will hopefully lead to them all working (believe me - I've been as vocally frustrated about SA's as anyone these last 14 seasons).

i just prefer to be happy that it's being done - as opposed to being bitter that it wasn't done sooner.

I'm not bitter about them not working at all. I didn't even find this site till mids4, I am not pissed in anyway. The point is fixing them is going to be a shit ton of work, and them simply "fixing them" at the same time as you turn down the stacked aeq% is going to really mess things up short term for the average player. Look, this isn't going to affect the top builds in the game negatively. As of now none of these people have sa's that don't work, so lets say he makes hands increase pancakes, or actually do anything. Since everybody with a good player is at 0 they go ahead and get 4-5, at the cost of 9sp, and boom, still at the top. Not really a big deal.

Originally posted by David Stern
Yep me too. Increase them, and I will get them too.
Doesn't change the fact you have 0 currently because they haven't worked.

Goddamn you are fucking stupid.

You're players aren't as good as you think they are, and you aren't as smart as you think you are. I mean, if you honestly believe some of the shit you say, I'm surprised that you manage to dress yourself daily.

Originally posted by Deathblade
I understood the change perfectly until I read this post.

I mean, besides the obvious make believe numbers and percentages you are throwing out, the comparisons are completely mindboggling.

The numbers are actually unimportant, those numbers are merely a guesstimate on my part. The important part is the mathematical theory behind the numbers. +% bonuses are multiplicative... this means that they get better and worse depending on the number they multiple. Thus a good build vs a bad build will get a huge ("overpowered") benefit from the bonuses and a good build vs a good build (or bad build vs bad build) will see a nominal ("underpowered") benefit. Diminishing returns on the +% bonuses will not fix the problem, it will only force people to choice a different and more effective route. If speed wasn't clearly one of the most important attribute selections, people wouldn't have exploited the build trend. Without that exploit of the build trend, +% bonuses are a fucking joke.

Originally posted by PLAYMAKERS
i went ahead and deleted all your garbage.

look LBs cover 150 speed scat backs out of the backfield. they ALSO have to tackle triple stacked HBs with 120 strength with Bruiser, short yardage monster and 14 in power thru. oh and they don't even get a shot at the HB until they have shoved off a 130 strength FB with hold block % and downfield maxed.

they also cover TEs built like track stars.

are you following?

I guess you do not understand tagging and custom LB slots.

Originally posted by David Stern
I'm not bitter

sorry - wasn't intending to call you specifically bitter - was just talking about the thread in general.


i totally agree that tweaking the SA's - so that they are balanced - and keeping them in balance with the tweaked AEQ% is a LARGE job.

is 40-ish days enough to get it right before roll out? I don't know. But I'm happy that the project has started.

Originally posted by Deathblade
Originally posted by David Stern

Yep me too. Increase them, and I will get them too.
Doesn't change the fact you have 0 currently because they haven't worked.

Goddamn you are fucking stupid.

You're players aren't as good as you think they are, and you aren't as smart as you think you are. I mean, if you honestly believe some of the shit you say, I'm surprised that you manage to dress yourself daily.

qfyou're

Originally posted by Warlock
I guess you do not understand tagging and custom LB slots.

i guess not