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tonnyrat
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Originally posted by tpaterniti
I hate to tell people, but at the top level of the game you have to gameplan for every single game. That is just waht the game is. If you don't want to do that you should go casual. For most teams and people on them I would say their top priority should be partitioning the workload in a sustainable way and also in coming up with a very quick and efficient way to scout that is still effective. Do this and you will be able to gameplan for every game without putting an excess workload on any one person and without any one person getting burnt out.

If your goal is really to make it to WL and stay there, then realistically you should already have accepted that you are going to be gameplanning for every game - again if you didn't want to do this, you shouldn't aim to play at the highest level of the game. This game is player building AND tactics. The tactics are integral - they are a huge part of what the game is. If you don't want to do them, then play casual. Anyway, if your goal is to make it to WL and stay there, then having to gameplan every game in the national Pro leagues will get you ready for this a lot more than Pro now.

Two big reasons people go one and done in WL are first because their players aren't good enough. They go to an easy pro league (one of the Europes, OPL or Africa) and only have 3-4 games that really challenge their roster, so when they hit the playoffs they win the first game easily, then gameplan their butts off the next two rounds and win and they are in WL, where every game they play will probably be as hard as their league championship game and they just don't have the players to pull that off. The second reason teams go one and done in WL is they don't know how to gameplan well or efficiently. They gameplan for max 5-6 games a season including the playoffs so when they have to gameplan for every game they either can't sustain it because they don't have the workload split up or because they haven't really come up with an efficient way to do it due to not really having to have one in the past.

Having said all this I have a very strong hunch that bort is working on some sort of intermediate tactics. I am not sure if it will replace regular tactics or be a separate league system like casual is now. Basically I am very sure he is working on something, but wildly speculating on what it is he is doing because I really have no idea.


the problem with most teams is that they approach GLB as a football game vs a RNG. GLB has always been and will always be about finding the most OP'd thing and spamming that whether it is SS, BH, Clock Manager, certain blitzes, Mentor, broken plays, OP'd VA+SA+AEQ stacks, WR/TE fakes, KLs, 120+ catching WRs, etc. you either find one of these things every ssn or you lose. do this and you dont even have to gp at the WL level.
Edited by tonnyrat on Aug 14, 2012 13:13:42
 
tpaterniti
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That can be part of the game sometimes, but the idea that good teams only win because they spam what is overpowered is a very simplified understanding of what is happening. Teams that overuse plays or a particular style typically put up big numbers in the regular season then get shutdown in the playoffs. You also have to understand that at the top levels of the game EVERYONE knows what is working and is using it to some degree.
Edited by tpaterniti on Aug 14, 2012 13:30:54
 
Bladnach
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Originally posted by tpaterniti
That can be part of the game sometimes, but the idea that good teams only win because they spam what is overpowered is a very simplified understanding of what is happening. Teams that overuse plays or a particular style typically put up big numbers in the regular season then get shutdown in the playoffs. You also have to understand that at the top levels of the game EVERYONE knows what is working and is using it to some degree.


Not necessarily. What he's saying is mostly true. The reason every team can't just use it is because you need the right dots to pull it off. You can't go with an all catchfake/juke based WR corp or a KL based CB corp or a few seasons back a FF based Dline or all break tkl WRs unless you have the dots who are built properly with the right atts, aeq, SAs, VAs. Then you still need a good understanding of the game and have a good AI in place but if you hit on everything at once, it makes things a lot easier.

Though, tony does speak a bit more casually about it because that's been one of the keys to DS success the past 8-10 seasons. They have 200-250 dots at plateau at any given time and all the agents build for endgame which means keeping sp, va, aeq flexibility till the bitter end.

A lot harder for 1shot teams because they're generally trying to have some fun and win some leagues on the way up. Still building for endgame but maybe not holding most their sp from 70-79 and a bunch of VAs and 2-3 AEQ. Not to mention, they're generally stuck with that 55man roster unless a guy builds with you for 8seasons and you boot them right as you make WL because strength DEs aren't "in" this season and speed ones are or something like that.
 
Bladnach
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Originally posted by Dub J
I have been begging for this for a long time. Would love to have a league where we use just use AI without custom slots and DPC. Basically where the game was at right after AIs were added.





Bort said that isn't happening a bunch of times. It would be stupid to fragment the userbase even more since it's not really big enough to fully support Pro leagues and barely enough to support 1 casual pro league. You probably want 2 working exciting league structures before you add a 3rd. If anything, he has to just adjust casual up or regular down but i don't think we ever will need 3 structures
 
Homage
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Originally posted by Bladnach
Not necessarily. What he's saying is mostly true. The reason every team can't just use it is because you need the right dots to pull it off. You can't go with an all catchfake/juke based WR corp or a KL based CB corp or a few seasons back a FF based Dline or all break tkl WRs unless you have the dots who are built properly with the right atts, aeq, SAs, VAs. Then you still need a good understanding of the game and have a good AI in place but if you hit on everything at once, it makes things a lot easier.

Though, tony does speak a bit more casually about it because that's been one of the keys to DS success the past 8-10 seasons. They have 200-250 dots at plateau at any given time and all the agents build for endgame which means keeping sp, va, aeq flexibility till the bitter end.

A lot harder for 1shot teams because they're generally trying to have some fun and win some leagues on the way up. Still building for endgame but maybe not holding most their sp from 70-79 and a bunch of VAs and 2-3 AEQ. Not to mention, they're generally stuck with that 55man roster unless a guy builds with you for 8seasons and you boot them right as you make WL because strength DEs aren't "in" this season and speed ones are or something like that.


which is more reason why we need a better VA reset system but people like Dub J will continue to cockblock it because they have no concept of how RNG based this game really is.
 
Dub J
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Originally posted by Bladnach
Bort said that isn't happening a bunch of times. It would be stupid to fragment the userbase even more since it's not really big enough to fully support Pro leagues and barely enough to support 1 casual pro league. You probably want 2 working exciting league structures before you add a 3rd. If anything, he has to just adjust casual up or regular down but i don't think we ever will need 3 structures


Yeah, he said that and then added high level D-leagues so meh.

 
Dub J
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Originally posted by Homage
which is more reason why we need a better VA reset system but people like Dub J will continue to cockblock it because they have no concept of how RNG based this game really is.


Shut your mouth.

 
Novus
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Originally posted by TrevJo
Not reading the rest of the thread, but ldo:

North American Pro League (USA Conference and Canada Conference)
South (?) Pro League (African Conference and South American Conference)
European Pro League (Western Conference and Eastern Conference)
East (?) Pro League (Southeast Asia Conference and Oceania Conference)


Welcome to 2 days ago.
 
FuzzyP
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Originally posted by Novus
Welcome to 2 days ago.


BURN
 
Dr. Showtime
DANG
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Originally posted by Novus
Welcome to 2 days ago.


needs fail whale
 
jtrav21
taco
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Originally posted by Dr. Showtime
needs fail whale


There is no complete thread without a fail whale appearance
 
Time Trial
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It isn't about the quantity of users to fill Pro... that exists. It is the quality of dots and coordinators that is lacking. Even after contraction, it should become pretty obvious that there are only enough WL competitive teams in Pro to fill two Pro leagues.

Top 32 teams in WL
Next 64 teams in Hemisphere or whatever

That's 96 of the top 100 teams. Any further down than top 100 and the talent pool starts to thin out pretty fucking quick.

Instead you have:

Top 32 teams in WL
Next 128 teams in PL

There just isn't 128 teams ready to compete for a spot in the WL in any given season, and that is what the level below WL needs to be. Just being able to hang on in the four Pro league structure isn't going to be getting teams ready for what it takes to be a top 50 team in GLB.

That's why there needs to be that extra tier.

Top 32 teams in WL (32)
Next 64 teams (96)
Next 128 teams (224)

This system encompasses the top 224 teams and essentially pits teams of equal competitiveness together. It gives a place for those teams that have been getting 13-3 to 16-0 in the Pro leagues, but who can't break through playoffs in the WL a place where they can play teams of equal talent. Instead of a joke season in Pro, they have a league where the top teams are in a constant fight for first place. This gets them ready for what it takes in the WL, because let's face it, even taking away the bottom half of the teams in the Pro league still leaves half a league for those teams at the top.
 
bug03
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Nobody wants to be the 100th best team in glb. Going 2-14 in pro is far more humbling than being 8-8 in pro like they are now. I think there are going to be some very upset agents and I'm not sure if it's going to be the mediocre pro teams or the teams who get relegated to regional pro.

That being said, forcing moreteams to Gamelan more often will increase competitive balance at the top. The better coordinators with experience will still cruise to wl.

This is good for the game, and it makes pro relevant again, but whether or not teams will play knowing they might not stay in pro anymore is yet to be seen
 
bug03
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Originally posted by Dpride59
Glb is still a great game, you idiots just lack the understanding that even the greatest games of all time aren't going to be awesome after you play them for 4 consecutive years


Which is why even hugely successful games like wow always need to be bringing in new blood to sustain. Without new people entering the game, the population will always go down. If you can keep the new additions equal to the departures, you have a Sugarhill game.
 
bhall43
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Originally posted by Time Trial
It isn't about the quantity of users to fill Pro... that exists. It is the quality of dots and coordinators that is lacking. Even after contraction, it should become pretty obvious that there are only enough WL competitive teams in Pro to fill two Pro leagues.

Top 32 teams in WL
Next 64 teams in Hemisphere or whatever

That's 96 of the top 100 teams. Any further down than top 100 and the talent pool starts to thin out pretty fucking quick.

Instead you have:

Top 32 teams in WL
Next 128 teams in PL

There just isn't 128 teams ready to compete for a spot in the WL in any given season, and that is what the level below WL needs to be. Just being able to hang on in the four Pro league structure isn't going to be getting teams ready for what it takes to be a top 50 team in GLB.

That's why there needs to be that extra tier.

Top 32 teams in WL (32)
Next 64 teams (96)
Next 128 teams (224)

This system encompasses the top 224 teams and essentially pits teams of equal competitiveness together. It gives a place for those teams that have been getting 13-3 to 16-0 in the Pro leagues, but who can't break through playoffs in the WL a place where they can play teams of equal talent. Instead of a joke season in Pro, they have a league where the top teams are in a constant fight for first place. This gets them ready for what it takes in the WL, because let's face it, even taking away the bottom half of the teams in the Pro league still leaves half a league for those teams at the top.


It doesn't matter still because there aren't even 64 teams outside of WL that are WL ready. There aren't even 32 teams in the game that are WL ready in the actual WL.

Honestly I think this contraction is too late. The idea has been passed by and all this does is add twice the competition for the same people between WL and Pro. Which to me is pretty boring.
 
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